Fixing up a build for an empty off-hand.

[DekonX]

I have an idea for a martial character who uses a single one handed sword with nothing in the off-hand.

He will most likely be played in a campaign run by my most MinMaxy player, so even though i like the idea of having an empty hand, I fear my character may be ripped to shreds by possibly over-optimized baddies.

I need some kind of build to make an empty off hand a boon and not a detriment.

Help is greatly appreciated, and may save a character from an untimely doom! thanks.

[OldTrees1]

Question: What is stopping it from wielding the weapon in both hands but holding it in one hand?

[DekonX]

Question: What is stopping it from wielding the weapon in both hands but holding it in one hand?

What? the physical impossibility of a Hellbred, or any two armed creature, doing so?

[OldTrees1]

What? the physical impossibility of a Hellbred, or any two armed creature, doing so?

I meant holding it in the left hand, grabbing it with the right hand during the attack action and then letting go with the right hand.

Although honestly I am not sure what you are worried about. Only your damage is decreased, you should still be as hard to hurt as the other warriors.

[Gwendol]

There isn't much support for the einhander style, but I would recommend the Einhander feat (PHB II). Since you will fall behind a two-hander in terms of damage you need extra damage:
Two viable options would be a Daring Outlaw build (rogue/swashbuckler) which will give both INT to damage and SA damage (the latter works great with the Off-Hand Swap maneuver of the einhander feat), or a bard focusing on Inspire Courage and using the Snowflake Wardance.

[DekonX]

Snowflake Wardance sounds cool, would all of the above be viable? Str+int to damage? Int+Str/Dex to hit?

Spring Attack with manuverability? just attack and run away, rinse, repeat?

Sorry, im not very good at this, i normally DM.

[Gwendol]

No, you need to focus your build. Either go daring outlaw, or go bard.

Never, ever, go for spring attack! You want to spend your feats on useful things, not dodge and mobility. Travel devotion lets you move your speed as a swift action, also you have the chronocharm of the horizon walker and the anklets of transposition to give you limited movement options in combat.

Pick a path and I'll give you an outline of a build.

[DekonX]

Snowflake bard! that way i get a lil magic too.

Should i get Einhander later on?

[Gwendol]

Ok, einhander bard.

Silverbrow Human
(Human) Dragonfire Inspiration
1: Melodic Casting
3: Song of the Heart (IC +1)
6: Snowflake Wardance
9: Word of Creation
12: Einhander (terrible feat really, but here you go), or pick Cloak Dance
15: Lingering song?

One of your level 1 spells should be inspirational boost, which ups your IC +1, and you also want to buy the Badge of Valor asap for another IC +1.

So already at third level you will be sporting a +4 to hit and damage, or +4d6 fire damage if you start dragonfire inspiration (or both, if you keep two songs). As a weapon you will want a harmonizing crystal echoblade eventually, and you will want a Vest of Legends. Also, the amazing Slippers of Battledancing!

Start your performance, and go wild! While making everyone else rock almost as hard as you!

[DekonX]

Start your performance, and go wild! While making everyone else rock almost as hard as you!


Wow. Thank you. So inspiring.

[maniacalmojo]

Well you could get a hand and a half blade such as a bastard sword. When i play characters that have a free hand i usually carry a sling and some alchemy items with me to gain a bit of control or make a ranged attack without having to necessarily get right next to someone. Being part of a caster class would also allow your free hand to cast spells.

[Techwarrior]

Alternatively, gain an unarmed damage progression and use an unarmed strike to two weapon fight.

[DekonX]

TechWarrior, honestly that was my first idea, but that would boil down to a twf character, which i was expressly trying to avoid.
I am trying to find an actual use for an off hand besides just attacking, which i believe ive found in the Snowflake Bard build

maniacalmojo, the magic offhand is a wonderful idea, and as a bard i believe i can do just that, and if i could find a feat somewhere the Bastard sword would probably be the best weapon for this guy.

thanks for the input guys

[gorfnab]

Here's an Einhander build I came up with a while ago

Human or Strongheart Halfling
1. Cobra Strike (UA) Decisive Strike (PHBII) Monk - Carmendine Monk (CoV), Combat Expertise, B: Dodge
2. Cobra Strike (UA) Monk - B: Mobility
3. Swashbuckler - Deadly Defense (CS), B: Weapon Finesse
4. Swashbuckler
5. Swashbuckler
6. Thief Acrobat - Combat Reflexes
7. Thief Acrobat
8. Thief Acrobat
9. Thief Acrobat - Einhander (PHBII)
10. Thief Acrobat
11. Warblade
12. Warblade or Duelist - Ironheart Aura (ToB)
13. Duelist
14. Duelist
15. Duelist - Robilar's Gambit (PHBII)
16. Duelist
17. Duelist
18. Duelist - Stormgaurd Warrior (ToB)
19. Duelist
20. Duelist

Levels 10 through 12 can be rearranged depending on your needs. The current setup gives you Improved Evasion and Uncanny Dodge at these levels. However if you don't need Improved Evasion take one less level of Thief Acrobat and move the first level of Warblade to level 10. If you don't need Uncanny Dodge don't take the 2nd level of Warblade and instead go into Duelist a level early. If you don't need either abilities take Warblade at level 10 and enter Duelist at level 11.

If flaws are available pick up EWP: Broadblade Shortsword (CAdv, pre-errata version if possible) or Versatile Unarmed Strike (PHBII) and Snap Kick (ToB) (may need to rearrange later feats). If traits are available pick up Cautious (UA).

The Monk and Swashbuckler levels (levels 1 through 5) can be switched around to taste. I personally like Swash 1/ Monk 2/ Swash 2

Items:
Vest of Defense
Broadblade Shortsword (if flaws are allowed) or Rapier with the Defensive Surge enhancement.

[maniacalmojo]

Well even without a feat you should be able to cast magic with a bastard sword since it is considered a one handed weapon not a two hander. The only reason you cannot use it that way without exotic weapon proficiency is because its awkward so you need special training.

[maniacalmojo]

not sure how off topic this is but i just found this (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11763.0) guide about getting weapon enhancments for holding a shuriken in your off hand. So swing with your big sword but take the bonus for holding something in your off hand.

[D4rkh0rus]

I have an idea for a martial character who uses a single one handed sword with nothing in the off-hand.

He will most likely be played in a campaign run by my most MinMaxy player, so even though i like the idea of having an empty hand, I fear my character may be ripped to shreds by possibly over-optimized baddies.

I need some kind of build to make an empty off hand a boon and not a detriment.

Help is greatly appreciated, and may save a character from an untimely doom! thanks.

Have you thought about an iaijutsu master from oriental adventures? You end up getting pigeonholed into wielding katanas... And you'll probably want to do factotum 8/IM 8 but... If you can convince your DM to home brew a feat like "quick sheathe (katana)" or just wield 1 gnomish quick razor (a la assassins creed 1) you can easily create a character that does respectable dmg, and if you took able learner, probably has good skill monkeying. UMD for wands and tada.

Cha to every dice of Iaijutsu focus ends up being respectable dmg considering you will get minimum 7 d6 per attack...


You could go dual quickrazors for a pseudo whirling dance of death... But that's dual wielding... Although the razors are technically always sheathed whenever you're not attacking... So you could make all your attack-sheathes on one side, then turn around and do the other... You would have a free hand at all moments

And I believe tossing an item like a candle from one hand to the other is a free action.

[Kennisiou]

I'd suggest also looking into swashbuckler's int to damage and the shadow blade feat for dex to damage. If you're not using a two handed weapon for 1.5x strength, any other stat you get to damage automatically becomes more efficient than strength since you're using it to determine your damage as well as to determine other things like AC or skill points.

Full on Tippy build is something like Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Martial Monk 2/Factotum 3/Swashbuckler3/Swordsage 1/Rogue 1/Factotum 5. Grab Shadow Blade as a feat at level 9 when you get access to it, make sure to have assassin stance as one of your swordsage stances as well as the necessary two shadow hand maneuvers to get it. Grab Weapon Supremacy as one of your martial monk bonus feats and then pretty much any fighter bonus feat that you like but looks too hard to get normally as your other bonus feat. The one rogue level lets you take the feat craven for +HD to damage on sneak attacks. Additionally, after grabbing the final factotum levels to get extra standard actions you can go into any martial class you'd like. Warblade is probably my favorite, not even a bad idea to take it earlier over rogue or one of the martial monk levels to get weapon aptitude isn't a bad idea since it lets you weapon aptitude your weapon supremacy to fit any weapon you're currently using.

Or you could just not go full Tippy intelligence-based martial attacker. Factotum 8 and Swashbuckler 3 are both pretty core to that kind of build, as is grabbing Swordsage 1 at level 9 and getting shadow blade then for the dex to damage as long as you're in a shadow hand stance using a shadow hand weapon.

[Optimator]

I made a Swashbuckler 3 / Sneak-Attack-variant Hit-and-Run Fighter 1 / Warblade X who used Einhander. His schtick was he would Improved Feint then hit with a standard action strike and trigger Staggering Strike. Fun and a great duelist.

[Juntao112]

Alternatively, gain an unarmed damage progression and use an unarmed strike to two weapon fight.

Historically, this was how a lot of people fenced.

[Sam K]

Do you mind using Tome of Battle?

Insightful strike from the diamond mind school lets you make an attack that replaces your damage roll with a concentration check. This means weapon damage and power attack bonuses don't factor in (atleast that's how I remember it), so even if you're using the humble longsword onehanded, you'll be able to do respectable damage assuming you keep your concentration maxed.

Actually, may ToB strikes are single attacks that deal extra damage in some form. Though most of them still use the weapon damage, you would probably be less limited by your one-handed style because you'd have another source of damage beyond strength/power attack with twohanded weapons.

Alternatively, if you dont mind being a gish, doesn't bladesinger require you to have one hand empty? Ofcourse, at this point you might not actually fight with your blade, just strike cool poses while casting...

[Averis Vol]

If you have access to PF (this being said because it was never stated otherwise) then dervish dance will let you weapon finesse a Scimitar and deal dex to damage as long as you have an empty offhand. This looks particularly well with Magus, and can do a disgusting amount of damage.