Lost Tradition Feat: In-game explanation for how those work?

[fortesama]

My DM has no problem with the feat actually. When another player pointed out that it means it becomes possible to use Strength as a casting stat, the DM actually smiled and said that it actually sounds quite fun.

So far, no one went that way yet, but we always wondered how we would explain physical stat spellcasting in-game. Mental stat spellcasting is already well documented so that one isn't an issue.

If I were to explain it, my take on it:

Strength: The mage is manly enough to warp reality, even if he's an incredibly femme and campy one.

Dex: See Avatar the Last Airbender.

Con: The caster uses his body and biofeedback for spellcasting.

How would you guys explain it if one of the players tried it and the DM gave it a green light?

[Ceaon]

- The magician was born with huge amounts of energy in his body, that can be forced out through controlled feats of strength or dexterity (this works best for a blaster), or that must be controlled lest they destroy him (constitution).
- The magician is rewarded for physical fitness/agility/resistance with supernatural power by a deity of unwordly being
- The magician mutilates or otherwise stresses his body using some ancient ritual that grants magical powers (constitution only)

There's lots of ways, actually.

[Uncle Pine]

Str: Magic is dangerous. Magic is strong. To control magic, one has to be stronger than magic. Each morning, to prepare his spells or to regain his slots, the character has to do some sort of physical training. Think about it as "Dragon Ball meets D&D".
Dex: Casting a spell usually requires mental balance, but there are people who do so through physical balance. Also, controlling magic often requires to act fast and react to dangerous situations.
Con: There are some settings (like Dragonlance) in which casting a spell physically hinders a wizard using a stamina-like system. However, for those who cast using the inner power of their body this isn't a problem at all: these individuals have plenty of stamina and can cast spell as easily as they can run through the battlefield at full speed.

Generally, a caster with a physical casting stat will eventually become a Kung-Fu Wizard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KungFuWizard).

[Gemini476]

Str: working magic requires you to bend reality to your will. You just don't use your will to bend it. Think Muscle Wizards.

Dex: if you want to use magic, you must use finesse. Think Harry Potter.

Con: magic requires a healthy body and the constitution o withstand the magical energies flowing within it. Think Nasuverse.

Incidentally, before 3.5 psionics had each discipline on a separate attribute. It was a mess, but it seems relevant.

Also also, Aushkrau Illumians are Muscle Wizards natively.

[Uncle Pine]

Moreover, alternatively casting stats open up some interesting puns. Like wizards "bending" reality. Literally. :smallbiggrin:

[Alleran]

In order:

- STR would be Alex Louis Armstrong, the Strong Arm Alchemist! *sparkle*
- DEX would be something similar to Airbending or Waterbending in Avatar.
- CON is probably the hardest for me to work out. Perhaps a "mental endurance" type system. Thinking of computer games where you have a Mana/Stamina stat, I'd base it off something similar to that (e.g. Dragon Age Templars/Spirit Warriors using magical abilities that deplete stamina).

[Hangwind]

STR: Hulk strong! HULK SMASH LAWS OF PHYSICS!!!

DEX: My name is Naruto Uzumaki! Believe it!

CON: I am Archer. Are you my master?

[Necroticplague]

Stregnth: you are strong. No.... You are MIGHTY! Your not just stronger than another man, or even stronger than steel. You are stronger then the world itself, capable of bending it into shapes more fit to your liking at lower levels, minor laws can be bent by brute force, with a mighty punch sending conservation of energy fleeing for long enough to burn an enemy. As you improve, more laws will bend under the mass of your iron might. Even the border of life and death bends to your prowess. At the highest levels, causality itself is forced to accomadate your rippling visage as fate itself bows to your mighty muscles.

Con: The universe is always trying to break you. Simple fact of life. Even immortals will one be crunched down by the encroaching maws of entropy. All these stupid little laws and rules that chain you down and keep you powerless. You know the truth. Reality is but a set of chains and laws, but like all chains, you can strain against them if you can take the stress, and you can break the laws if your willing to accept the punishment. You can take this punishment and strain against those chains. Your tougher than any person should be. The universe hadn't prepared severe enough punishment for you. It tries to break, oh it tries, but the best it can do is break itself upon your impenetrable fortitude. It starts small: you force something to be purple when rules say it should be black. However, you get tougher. Bigger rules have bigger punishments. Soon enough, you take these in stride as well, yanking on the chain of life and death until the two meet, ignoring the universes lash upon your back. In time, no punishment will be enough, for you can never be broken.

Dex: The universe is always watching. It's eyes on every person, making sure everything's working as it should. However, it can't pay attention to everything at once, so most of it is barely thinking autopilot. This little state isn't very good at keeping track of the extraordinary, though it works well enough foot the ordinary. If your fast enough, you can sneak something by without it noticing. It start subtle: you change something's color when the universe looks away. Of course. It pays more attention to bigger restrictions. But soon enough, you can slip those bigger things by as well. You subtly slip someone's soul back in them without the universe noting it should be on an outer plane visit. In time, you manage to pull a fast one on fate itself, managing to sneak by old Father Time with the world none the wiser.

[Jeff the Green]

My thews are so massive, they warp space-time and invite in horrors from beyond the stars.
—Abd al'Azrad, Strength-based alienist.

[Krazzman]

I only got one for Str or Con but:

Louie from Rune Soldier.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

CON: I am Archer. Are you my master?
Wouldn't that be CHA?

[HaikenEdge]

People have covered Strength and Dex pretty well, so I'll just go int o Con

Constitution: You're physically tough. The laws of physics, biology and the natural all just bounce off your chest. You don't so much cast spells as you ignore reality until reality accommodates your toughness, because it can't beat you down, so it might as well join you. Probably works even best with Steadfast Determination.

[Chronos]

The whole point of the feat is that it isn't explained. It's lost. If you want something explained, you need the Found Tradition feat instead.

[Hangwind]

Wouldn't that be CHA?

Nope. Remember, every time he uses his powers, he is changed a bit physically and he runs the risk of permanently damaging himself.

[Psyren]

So far, no one went that way yet, but we always wondered how we would explain physical stat spellcasting in-game.

This might help:

http://tauntgamers.com/forums/uploads/monthly_02_2013/post-1606-0-33843900-1359798019.jpg

(More seriously, Con-based casting exists in first-party PF - that might help you fluff this.)

[Joe the Rat]

Strength: Muscle Mystery! Learn to use precise muscle control to build your body and warp the bounds of reality. You are Flex Mentallo, Hero of the Beach! Leopard trunks optional.

Constitution: You are a Bioturge - You have a massive vitality, far beyond normal creatures, and can use that excessive life force to fuel magic. shape-change shenanigans could fit this well, as well as all sorts of healing/restorative tricks. Burning spell slots for temporary HP or to ignore ability/energy drain would fit well. Burning hit points for extra castings or metamagics is another interesting facet to explore. Steadfast Determination is a good feat to go along with this one.

[Juntao112]

My DM has no problem with the feat actually. When another player pointed out that it means it becomes possible to use Strength as a casting stat, the DM actually smiled and said that it actually sounds quite fun.

So far, no one went that way yet, but we always wondered how we would explain physical stat spellcasting in-game. Mental stat spellcasting is already well documented so that one isn't an issue.

If I were to explain it, my take on it:

Strength: The mage is manly enough to warp reality, even if he's an incredibly femme and campy one.

Dex: See Avatar the Last Airbender.

Con: The caster uses his body and biofeedback for spellcasting.

How would you guys explain it if one of the players tried it and the DM gave it a green light?
http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120704065921/fma/images/7/7e/Vlcsnap-2012-07-04-02h50m15s84.png
This ancient technique of magic has been passed down the Armstrong line for generations.

[Naanomi]

A non-silly strength:

A simple method creates a 'raw magic stream', violent and difficult to 'aim' like a fire hose. It requires raw power to force the untamed magic into a usable configuration.

Dex can be similar, except it is finesse and intricate somatic components that give shape to the raw magic.

[Yawgmoth]

I CAST FIST will always be how I envision str-based magic and nothing could possibly change that.

[Uncle Pine]

Somehow, I forgot another Str-based caster in my first post: the GREAT AND POWERFUL KORG! He's so powerful that he doesn't even need the Lost Tradition feat!

[ahenobarbi]

So far, no one went that way yet, but we always wondered how we would explain physical stat spellcasting in-game. Mental stat spellcasting is already well documented so that one isn't an issue.


Is it? I don't recall any real explanation how it's supposed to work. Anyways I'd go with something like:

Arcane: by performing ancient acts of (probably) inhuman strength you intimidate/bend(as in bend to your will by exploiting loopholes based on incorrect estimates of creature dexterity)/overpower (by being tougher than it) reality to do what you want.
Divine: by performing ancient and sacred (or profaned for evil) acts of (probably) inhuman strength (or dexterity or condition) you please your diety (or "ideal") and it bends reality for you.