[PF] sneak attacks in total concealment?

[Blyte]

can you sneak attack from inside a smoke bomb cloud that gives total concealment?

I am considering taking the "blind fighting" feat, for my kirin style, sneak attacking, abomination, monk/alchemist/rogue/sleepless detective.

...I can't see anyone being able to use precision damage from within a smoke cloud, but I am also wondering if there are any rules preventing this.

[Psyren]

The standard way is a pair of Fogcutting Lenses. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/fogcutting-lenses) You can also take the Shadow Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shadow-strike-combat) feat, but you still need some way to locate their square though if they have total concealment.

If you're an Ifrit, you can go with Firesight. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/firesight-ifrit)

EDIT: Instead of Alchemist/Rogue, you can simply be a Trapbreaker Vivisectionist Alchemist.

[Blyte]

thanks! those lenses seem like a great option, but I might get snagged by the "non-magical" disclaimer, as my bombs are a supernatural ability and therefore magical. I wish I had made an ifrit. unfortunately the shadow strike feat won't work as it states it doesn't work on total concealment.

The character is a (mindchemist)alchy(2) / (moms)monk(2) currently, who uses kirin stike.. I am about to dip rogue for trap finding and sneak dice, then sleepless detective for awesomeness and more sneak dice.

I liked the mind chemist double int bonus with knowledge skills, and double damage with kirin strike synergy. When I eventually get the neato INT synergy from sleepless detective, I think I will be pleased having gone mind chemist all the more. unintentionally trying to make kungfu sherlock holmes here (from the movies)

[Psyren]

thanks! those lenses seem like a great option, but I might get snagged by the "non-magical" disclaimer, as my bombs are a supernatural ability and therefore magical.

The lenses work on magic smoke just fine:


The goggles allow the wearer to see through magical and normal fogs, mists, and similar obscurement.

Also, I still recommend Trap Breaker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---alchemist-archetypes/trap-breaker-alchemist-archetype) since it will give you trapfinding without slowing down your alchemy. (Not that Trapfinding is all that necessary but still.) Even though you can't use the other abilities without bombs, the abilities you give up are pretty minor anyway.

[Ravens_cry]

There is also the Goz Mask (http://www.pathfindercommunity.net/magic-items/wondrous-items/goz-mask). Same price, and it does not impose a penalty on perception checks.

[Blyte]

The lenses work on magic smoke just fine:



Also, I still recommend Trap Breaker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---alchemist-archetypes/trap-breaker-alchemist-archetype) since it will give you trapfinding without slowing down your alchemy. (Not that Trapfinding is all that necessary but still.) Even though you can't use the other abilities without bombs, the abilities you give up are pretty minor anyway.

ohh awesome, guess I misread the lenses.

and trap breaker is unfortunately a no-go for me, since mindchemist already gives up poison use. for perfect recall (a great trade)

I'm lookin forward to catching enemy in a smokey glue bomb, then peppering them with darts and needles (from my robe of needles) with sneak+kirin damage.

8k, i'll be saving up for sometime though :/

[Karoht]

Speaking from experience, it's an excellent tactic.
Later, after you've purchased the Goz Mask, pick up an Eversmoking Bottle. Totally worth the 5.4K to get it. But you will want the whole party to have Goz Masks before that. The area of an Eversmoking Bottle is 50ft radius. It's awesome.
Cheaper option is to buy a wand of Obscuring Mist. It's basically a smoke bomb that stays centered on you, about the same radius as your smoke bombs. Extremely handy to have on hand.
You will absolutely want the Shadow Strike feat though. It's paid off incredibly for me. It allows you to still Sneak Attack through any concealment, this includes (or rather, the feat does not specifically disclude) magical concealment such as Mirror Image (still have to hit the person and not an image), Blur, and Displacement. I don't think it works for Blink though, I would have to re-read Blink.

[Psyren]

Actually, SS won't do anything to Mirror Image - the spell gives a form of miss chance but does not grant concealment. In fact, if you hit the person rather than an image you will do sneak attack damage whether or not you have Shadow Strike.

Similarly, Blink does not actually grant concealment. If you get lucky and successfully hit someone who is blinking, you will deal sneak attack damage whether you have shadow strike or not.

Using it with fog, blur, displacement etc. are fine. (Note that it will work against displacement even though that grants 50% miss chance.)

[NightbringerGGZ]

And to throw out another option, a one level dip into Oracle with the Flame Mystery would let you pick up Gaze of Flame: "You can see through fire, fog, and smoke without penalty as long as the light is sufficient to allow you to see normally."

[Karoht]

A one level dip into Oracle (Winter Mystery) gets you Sleetstorm. Vision through Sleetstorm is particularly hard to acquire outside of this dip (which means your enemies are even less likely to be able to see through it). Or if you go Flame Mystery instead, you can buy a Ring of Revelation and get the Snowsight ability from Winter Mystery instead. Or vice versa.

The reason why I mention Sleetstorm is that fog is easy enough to get rid of with wind control spells, Sleetstorm is notoriously harder. As such it will eventually be a more reliable tool for ensuring that you get concealment against a foe but can still see said foe to catch them flat-footed.