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View Full Version : "Bonus feats aren't class features!!!" (3.P idea, input requested.)



Jormengand
2014-01-21, 02:50 PM
Every time the Fighter gets fixed, anyone talks about fixing the Fighter - in fact, even when anyone talks about the Fighter at all, we always hear the same line. It's almost a meme.

"Bonus feats aren't class features!"

All right, feats aren't class features. But what if feats were class features?

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Power Attack, Combat Reflexes

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0|Two-weapon fighting, Iron Will

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1|Mounted Combat, Great Fortitude[/table]

Woah, woah, stop. That's just like a fighter, only you have four times as many bonus feats and you can't choose them. Okay, let's try this, What if class features were feats?

Sneak Attack:
Prerequisites: See text.
If you can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from your attack, you can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

Your attack deals 1d6 extra damage any time your target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when you flank your target. Should you score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, you can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. You cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual -4 penalty.

You can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. You must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. You cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Its effects stack. You must have a level of 1, plus twice the number of times you have already taken the feat, to do so, meaning you can take the feat at first level and every two levels thereafter.


All right, I think we're getting somewhere. But surely, you need to have classes? Well... all right. How about this one?

The Chassis

Hit die: 1d4
Skills: The chassis gets 2 skill points at each level. The chassis may choose any ten skills to be class skills.
Starting age and wealth: As fighter.
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+0|

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+1|

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+1|

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+1|

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+2|

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+2|

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+2|

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+3|

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+3|

11th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+3|

12th|
+6/1|
+4|
+4|
+4|

13th|
+6/1|
+4|
+4|
+4|

14th|
+7/2|
+4|
+4|
+4|

15th|
+7/2|
+5|
+5|
+5|

16th|
+8/3|
+5|
+5|
+5|

17th|
+8/3|
+5|
+5|
+5|

18th|
+9/4|
+6|
+6|
+6|

19th|
+9/4|
+6|
+6|
+6|

20th|
+10/5|
+6|
+6|
+6|[/table]

"But wait!" I hear you cry. "Isn't this just like a bad expert?" Well, uh, yes. But it's not done yet!


Right, let's make this clear: You get three feats every level. "You mean one feat every three levels?" No, I mean you get three feats every level, for a total of sixty feats at twentieth level. The catch is that you have no class features, and if you want a decent hit die or saves you have to buy them. With what? Feats, of course! Everyone hates toughness, so let's try this instead:

Toughness
When you take the Toughness feat, you gain one hit point for each hit die you currently posess from levels before you took the feat. Any future hit dice, including the one for the level you took toughness, increase by one step (d4, d6, d8, d10, d12).

Special: You may take this feat up to four times. Each time, your hit die increases by one step and you gain hit points from previous levels.

Special: If an ability asks what size your hit dice are, all of your hit dice are treated as being the increased size, even ones from earlier levels.

Normal: Characters have a d4 hit die.

Example: A character takes Toughness as one of her third-level feats. She already has 11 hit points. When she rolls her hit die for this level, she rolls a d6 instead of a d4. She also gains 2 more hit points, and all of her hit dice are henceforth treated as d6s.

And how about:

Fortitudinous Resistance:

You use the medium progression for fortitude saves. (1/1/2/2/3/3/3/4/4/5/5/5/6/6/7/7/7/8/8/9)

Normal: Characters use the poor progression for fortitude saves. (0/0/1/1/1/2/2/2/3/3/3/4/4/4/5/5/5/6/6/6)

Fortitudinous Resilience:
Prerequisites: Fortitudinous resistance.

You use the good progression for fortitude saves. (2/3/3/4/4/5/5/6/6/7/7/8/8/9/9/10/10/11/11/12)

Normal: Characters with a Resistance feat use the medium progression for saves. (1/1/2/2/3/3/3/4/4/5/5/5/6/6/7/7/7/8/8/9). Otherwise, they use a poor progression for saves. (0/0/1/1/1/2/2/2/3/3/3/4/4/4/5/5/5/6/6/6)

[Insert Reflexive/Willful Resistance/Resilience here]

Now, let's have:

Prowess of Experts:
You follow the medium base attack bonus progression, gaining an increase in base attack bonus on the third level of every four, as well as the second and fourth. Increase your base attack bonus retroactively.

Normal: You follow the low base attack progression, gaining an increase every second level.

Prowess of Warriors:
Prerequisites: Prowess of Experts
You follow the high base attack bonus progression, gaining an increase in base attack bonus every level. Increase your base attack bonus retroactively.

Normal: If you have Prowess of Experts, you follow the medium base attack bonus progression, otherwise you follow the low base attack bonus progression.



And sure, sure, your sorcerer gets his turn too:

Spontaneous casting:
Choose three zero-level spells and two first-level spells. You may cast these spells spontaneously as a sorcerer of the same level.

Normal: You cannot cast spells.

Yeah, that one needs work, but you get the idea.


Any comments before I continue? Suggestions, improvements, warnings? The pit is open!

Grod_The_Giant
2014-01-21, 02:57 PM
Now where have I seen that idea before (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm)...

The biggest issue that the "feats aren't class features" refers to is genericness, I think. Apart from the crappy-and-fall-asleep-boring Weapon Specialization line, the base class offers literally nothing unique. Any other class can spend their level-up feats and do exactly the same thing that fighters can. There are a host of other issues with power and flexibility, but the fact that the fighter does nothing that other classes can't do is the problem the "meme" refers to. Turning it into a design-your-own class probably isn't going to help.

gnomemaster
2014-01-21, 04:08 PM
Jormengand, I made an account today just so that I could respond to your post. I think generic classes could be a really cool idea. Especially for a low-magic type of setting. I'm currently thinking about a fantasy post-apocalyptic setting, essentially Europe during the dark ages and this sort of thing would fit right in. A lot of the classic elements of DnD settings wouldn't be welcome in that world. It's a dark, bleak world without a lot of structure for paladins, wizards and such. So I really like the idea of these generic classes and a menu of choices to make your character out of.

I feel like this would help for converting a lot of fantasy stories that don't fit the mold of a classic DnD world (like Wheel of Time, Game of Thrones, and various other fantasy novels).

I like your ideas a lot, I'd really like to see you combine them with the generic classes of the Expert, Warrior, and the Spellcaster in Unearthed Arcana.

Just to Browse
2014-01-21, 11:08 PM
Feats, as they are designed, are not class features. If you change feats such that they are suitable class features, they will be suitable class features.

Making class features into "feats" (special features that you access as you level) is very difficult to balance because you have to vet a whole lot more feature combinations, and very difficult to implement because there's a lot of stuff. You'd need two or three times the PHB's feat pagespace just to cover the same ground.