Druid 5 with Moonspeaker PrC question

[Nimbryx]

So my shifter druid just reached level 5, opening up wildshape and a lot of potential prestige options aside from the tried and true druid 20. I've taken the 1st and 4th racial sub-levels, so I don't have an animal companion or resist nature's lure. I had originally intended to make this character a MoMF with a dip in warshaper for crit immunity and reach but after discussing it with my party it was decided I would better serve as a full caster (aside from myself, we have a wizard and ranger for our casters) to give us better options.

Planar Shepherd is banned (first-time DM doesn't want planar influence/shenanigans in his campaign) but he's allowed the greenbound summoning feat, prompting me to look at the Moonspeaker PrC to become a summoning specialist. The party and I have avoided summoning stuff because we don't want to frustrate our DM with an army of creatures. Buuut, our thief decided to prestige into the master of masks PrC, with the assassin and demon masks to start with. First thing he does with his newfound power? Summon a fiendish giant crocodile to bite my DM's boss (a mummy being controlled by a thoroughly evil sentient cloak) in half. So, now the DM's upping things a bit in response to our tactics and tomfoolery.

Anyways, all that aside, in RoE it says that the moonspeaker gains wildshape at 5th level, but if the person already has wildshape you add you Moonspeaker level -4 to determine HD, duration and size. Does this eat into my druid levels as well? Or does it mean that I would need to be druid 5/moon 5 in order to start seeing HD progression for my forms? It also doesn't denote, any additional uses/types as it does in druid, so I'm guessing they remain at only one use of wildshape with mundane (non-dire) animals only?

Also, quick question about the greenbound feat. The greenbound template gives LA + 8 and CR +2. Which would I apply to determine if I can summon? I'm guessing CR, which would mean that for a greenbound wolf (CR 1+2) it would require SNA3 to summon it? This is the first time I've ever messed with templates and I would really appreciate the clarification.

Thanks in advance!
~Nim

[eggynack]

Anyways, all that aside, in RoE it says that the moonspeaker gains wildshape at 5th level, but if the person already has wildshape you add you Moonspeaker level -4 to determine HD, duration and size. Does this eat into my druid levels as well? Or does it mean that I would need to be druid 5/moon 5 in order to start seeing HD progression for my forms? It also doesn't denote, any additional uses/types as it does in druid, so I'm guessing they remain at only one use of wildshape with mundane (non-dire) animals only?
You only get the wild shape -4 at level 5, and at that point you act as a druid 6 in terms of wild shape abilities. As for what it grants, you explicitly gain HD, duration, and size, and explicitly do not gain plant or elemental forms. I don't know if you get uses/day, but it looks like you may not. Still, you can only enter moonspeaker at level 9, because of the skill requirements, and at that point you have a perfectly reasonable 3/day, which should be enough for most purposes.

I don't know what you're talking about with the non-dire thing. You can become dire animals in the exact same way that you can become non-dire animals, because dire animals are just animals. Honestly, the lack of plant and elemental forms isn't the biggest loss. Animals represent most of the best choices. If you want extra forms, I'd advise picking up exalted (BoED, 42) or dragon (Draconomicon, 105) wild shape. Probably dragon, because I think you'd actually get that one earlier than exalted here.


Also, quick question about the greenbound feat. The greenbound template gives LA + 8 and CR +2. Which would I apply to determine if I can summon? I'm guessing CR, which would mean that for a greenbound wolf (CR 1+2) it would require SNA3 to summon it? This is the first time I've ever messed with templates and I would really appreciate the clarification.
The LA and CR boost doesn't impact the spell necessary for summoning. Summoning a greenbound wolf takes SNA I, just like normal. It's pretty ridiculous, but there ya go.

Edit: As some extra notes, you can gain the ability to turn into plants through enhance wild shape (SpC, 82), and you can recoup the four lost levels of wild shape through a wild shape amulet (MoF, 167).

[Red Fel]

First: Have you read the Shifter Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225294)? It has some very valuable advice about Shifters in general, Shifter Druids in particular, and Moonspeakers especially.

Now on to the points raised:

As Eggy said, at Moonspeaker 5 you gain Wild Shape, which since you have Druid is treated as being a Druid of (Druid Levels + Moonspeaker Levels -4) levels. The Moonspeaker levels add to duration, HD limit, and size categories of Wild Shape, but none of the extra stuff. Yes, you're giving up some aspects of your Wild Shape progression, but as the Handbook notes, not many PrCs advance both Wild Shape and Druid spellcasting.

Note that in addition to the Wild Shape progression, Moonspeaker advances your Shifting progression, making Shifter feats surprisingly viable. (Check out the Moonspeaker Shifting feature again. You'll be glad you did.) So you'll have multiple sources of shapeshifting.

You can also take various Wild Shape feats, such as Dragon Wild Shape (Draconomicon) if you want to spice up your shaping.

And yes, as Eggy points out, the Greenbound Summoning feat is that broken. All animals summoned by SNA receive the Greenbound template for free. For free. Note that the language of the feat says "all animals," so it might not apply the template to, say, a Triton you can summon with SNA III thanks to Moonspeaker.

Druid is one of the most brokenly powerful classes in the game. Revel in it.

[eggynack]

As another extra note, I'm beginning to suspect that the question of wild shape advancement is a bit irrelevant, because moonspeaker 4 seems like it might be an ideal break point, especially for a summoner. What are you really getting after that? I would probably use the moonspeaker's knowledge (religion) to pick up a contemplative dip, and then return to druid, especially because that way you can continue your beast spirit advancement, and thus gain rapid summons. That ability alone is better than pretty much anything you get after moonspeaker 4. Returning to moonspeaker after picking up rapid summons might be worthwhile though. So, something like druid 8/ moonspeaker 4/contemplative 1/druid 4/ moonspeaker 3. Seems reasonable. I'd maybe add in a holt warden level too, because I'm really becoming a fan of using those holt warden slots to power the spell domain from contemplative. That might just be me though.

[Urpriest]

To explain to those incredulous at the dire animals thing, back in 3.0 there actually was a distinction, and druids could only turn into dire animals later in their career even if they were as small as the normal animals they had access to. This is no longer the case in 3.5, however.