Diplomacy and Masterwork Tool

[Starchild7309]

I am making up a NPC for a campaign I am running and I could just fiat that he has a masterwork tool that allows him to have an addition +2 to diplomacy, but would rather not. Is there any mention of an actual tool that does this? If so where and what is it?

[Mordokai]

A top hat and a monocle?

C'mon, it doesn't get any more classy.

[gorfnab]

"Clothes make the man."

Also a Circlet of Persuasion is nice if you can swing the GP.

[XionUnborn01]

Clearly a masterwork diplomacy tool looks like this:

http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/1992-batmanreturns-4.jpg

[Starchild7309]

All very good suggestions but I am looking for an actual written down item or a place in a book where it says "_______" can be used as a masterwork tool for diplomacy. I was looking at the circlet but character is only 4th lvl. With standard NPC loot its a bit out of his reach.

[XionUnborn01]

From what I've always understood, there's a tool for everything but it's left up to the players/DMs to decide what it actually is.

[Zharradan Marr]

All very good suggestions but I am looking for an actual written down item or a place in a book where it says "_______" can be used as a masterwork tool for diplomacy. I was looking at the circlet but character is only 4th lvl. With standard NPC loot its a bit out of his reach.

An official-looking document can be used as a masterwork Diplomacy tool; if you can't obtain such a document legitimately, you can try a Forgery (Complete Adventurer page 100)

[Grod_The_Giant]

Tool, Masterwork: This well-made item is the perfect tool for the job. It grants a +2 circumstance bonus on a related skill check (if any). Bonuses provided by multiple masterwork items used toward the same skill check do not stack. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#toolMasterwork)
There ya go.

[Mithril Leaf]

There is no single device that is a masterwork Diplomacy tool. Ditto for the Hide skill. A black cloak might be perfect for Hide at night, but when using Hide in the snow, a white cloak would be more appropriate as the masterwork tool.

Except there is, quoted right from the SRD a little above you.

[Slipperychicken]

Perhaps a set of exquisite perfumes, pheromones, and subtle makeup (yes, real diplomats and politicians do wear makeup) which has 10 uses which each last for 24 hours and take 10 minutes to properly apply?

An alchemical substance which stimulates the brain to enhance empathy and social sensitivity, granting a +2 on diplomacy checks made for the next few hours or so?

Exceedingly fancy suit/garb, tailored for the cutting edge of high fashion? Of course, wearing armor over or under the suit would make you look like a thug and absolutely ruin the look, but you can have non-obtrusive armor plating installed for ~400 additional gold, giving a +4 armor bonus to AC. Also, the outfit loses its effectiveness after 3d6 days, as high fashion has moved on since then, and you don't get points for wearing yesterday's style.

[Haldir]

Easy- a book of information regarding customs, geography, economics, and language minutiae. When you can greet, engage, and direct a Diplomacy encounter in a way that pleases and comforts, that's worth a +2, if you paid for "masterwork" knowledge.

[Deophaun]

Except there is, quoted right from the SRD a little above you.
Not quite. The tool is perfect for whatever task it does (if any). In other words, the tool comes first, its function second.

This isn't really a problem for DMs, as if they're the ones that get to decide what that fancy suit is really good for. (Masterwork Diplomacy item? That's a bottle of wine/keg of beer.) But it is an issue for players who want a widget that gives a +2 to UMD.

[Kennisiou]

Cupcakes. Everyone likes cupcakes.

Masterwork tool? EZ Bake Oven. Make cupcakes. +2 diplomacy.

Edit: In all seriousness, although unrelated to the OP's question, a masterwork UMD tool is probably pretty easy to figure out. UMD is basically lying to the item to convince it you're magical and therefore can use it. What's a good masterwork tool for that? Anything that makes you look or feel more magical. Floppy wizard hat. Cape with stars drawn on it. A wand with no actual spells in it. Parchment with arcane symbols scrawled all over it. A small staff with a gem set in it that shines with a spooky glow when it catches the light. A spell component pouch. Something that is more likely to sort of make the item/world/yourself believe "hey, this guy is actually pretty magic."

[avr]

I'd always thought that masterwork tool a guideline rather than an absolute.

Specific items which give Diplomacy bonuses are (Clebdecher) glamerweave clothing in Eberron books. Sharn, City of Towers IIRC.

[TuggyNE]

All very good suggestions but I am looking for an actual written down item or a place in a book where it says "_______" can be used as a masterwork tool for diplomacy.

You will find no such item. Sorry.

Edit: Hmm, with the possible exception of that Clebdecher, depending on whether it calls itself a MW tool.

[Deophaun]

Something that is more likely to sort of make the item/world/yourself believe "hey, this guy is actually pretty magic."
Keep in mind that the item is effectively giving you the equivalent of two ranks in the skill, which could represent years of effort for a trained individual. And this is where the DM steps in and says "hey, you've got 10 ranks of UMD, the glowing stick doesn't noticeably improve your self-esteem any more." And that's well within the description of the masterwork tool: helping out low-skilled practitioners is a lot different than helping out highly trained experts.

The point is, the DM does not have to allow undefined masterwork items in by RAW. Yes, if the DM wanted a UMD device to exist, he could use practically any justification for such a thing. But if the DM doesn't want it to exist, it's not houseruling to say nothing fits the bill.

[Vaz]

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/cvn-21/images/1-aircraft-carrier.jpg

When in doubt, look to 'murica.

[Killer Angel]

Except there is, quoted right from the SRD a little above you.

There is, but the details about what is, are left unsaid.

[Eldan]

A megaphone, of course.

[DigoDragon]

In one campaign, there was an NPC diplomat who wore a silver badge of office for the king he worked for. When our party rogue stole the badge and attempted to impersonate the diplomat so that we can negotiate a cease-fire between two cities, the GM gave the rogue the +2 bonus because of how "official-looking" it was in the eyes of the other diplomats.

[Slipperychicken]

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/cvn-21/images/1-aircraft-carrier.jpg

When in doubt, look to 'murica.

Ding Ding! We have a winner!

[Spore]

You do realize HOW MUCH FITTING CLOTHING for every situation you could get for 50 gp? Cane, noble's outfit and monocle for the court, evening wear for the ball, clean and simple clothing for a night in town, sided with a parade weapon (most people are intimidated by openly carried weapons, even if they're fake).

An officer may have several uniforms, a priest may have several robes to represent his beliefs.

[Slipperychicken]

You do realize HOW MUCH FITTING CLOTHING for every situation you could get for 50 gp? Cane, noble's outfit and monocle for the court, evening wear for the ball, clean and simple clothing for a night in town, sided with a parade weapon (most people are intimidated by openly carried weapons, even if they're fake).


Even the Courtiers Outfit (30gp) only gives its benefit when worn with jewelry worth 50gp. And that's just the outfit to avoid a -2 when talking to nobles with improper dress. It even says that without the jewels, you just look like an out-of-place commoner.

So a masterwork version of such an outfit would cost at least 130 gold (30 for the outfit, 50 for the jewels, 50 for the masterwork).

[Zweisteine]

Try googing "D&D masterwork tool list." There's some good stuff out there.

Clothing would work in many civilized areas, but maybe not elsewhere.

And it wouldn't cost more than a masterwork tool. Maybe a Courtier's Outfit helps in dealings with nobles, but it isn't made to improve people's outlook of you in general. Diplomacy clothing would probably be nice, but not overly nice, and they might now work together with other skill-effecting clothing (Courier's Outfit). For that, you need to get a Masterwork Courier's Outfit (probably 65 gp + 50gp jewelry, and it might not work with commoners).

[Haldir]

You can't believably consult that book during the conversation without looking like an idiot, and if you've got it memorised, that's actual skill ranks, not a tool.

Yeah, you're right. What sort of diplomat uses references materials? :smallsigh:

Also, your interpretation of memorization as being skill ranks is awful. In your system all any PC would have to do is go to a library and spend a few days memorizing to get all the ranks of any skill he or she wants. Any Freshman college student can tell you that you can memorize something you need to know for a particular task without having permanent skills in that field.

[Killer Angel]

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/cvn-21/images/1-aircraft-carrier.jpg

When in doubt, look to 'murica.

Must be said that, with this game system, fighters are top tier. :smallcool:

[Abithrios]

There ya go.

I am pretty sure that the passage linked by Grod is most of what the rules actually say about using masterwork tools for most skills (though there are specific examples for a few skills). As I recall from a previous discussion about masterwork tools (centered around UMD if I recall correctly), there is disagreement whether RAW allows the use of a masterwork tool for any skill or just skills explicitly mentioned or just certain skills (subject to individual DM ruling), and discussion did not serve to settle the disagreement. Fortunately, this thread is about a specific game with a specific DM, so the debate is irrelevant.

I would recommend that you simply choose some item that seems helpful for the specific use of the skill. You may wish to be cautious if your players are the kind of people who would buy tons masterwork tools for a very cheap +2 to a lot of different skills. That said, +2 is not a big bonus.

[Haldir]

A- That's a completely subjective interpretation. I daresay mine would be, as RAW, that the Diplomacy skill is about convincing other people to view things the way you view them and has absolutely no rules-based limits on "immediacy."

B- A little rote learning can go a long way when it comes to some customs. Some cultures get offended if you show them the bottom of your feet or touch them with your left hand. Having a book where you can get a few tips like that is worth a +2 in my mind, but not necessarily worth a whole rank in Diplomacy. The reference material lets you have knowledge that sweetens the deal, and can keep things from going sour, but doesn't actually make you any more capable as a diplomat.

[Slipperychicken]

Try googing "D&D masterwork tool list." There's some good stuff out there.

Clothing would work in many civilized areas, but maybe not elsewhere.

And it wouldn't cost more than a masterwork tool. Maybe a Courtier's Outfit helps in dealings with nobles, but it isn't made to improve people's outlook of you in general. Diplomacy clothing would probably be nice, but not overly nice, and they might now work together with other skill-effecting clothing (Courier's Outfit). For that, you need to get a Masterwork Courier's Outfit (probably 65 gp + 50gp jewelry, and it might not work with commoners).

Yeah, you'd probably need a masterwork tool specially tailored both for whatever sort of culture you're engaging, and for what is appropriate to a given situation. Maybe a nomadic people might be more impressed by some manner of body-paints and decorations made of simpler materials, dragons might be more impressed by lavish desplays of weath, and courtly fashions would be as fickle as the wind.

A Knowledge(Nobility and Royalty), Knowledge (Local), or Gather Information check might be necessary to learn the proper attire, symbols (such as sceptors, gifts, rods, weapons, peace-symbols, etc), and procedures for a given situation, and failure on such a check could be disastrous -wearing the wrong sort of clothes or carrying the wrong items might suggest weakness, hostility, pretension, or cluelessness, and impose a fitting penalty.

Well, that's my take on it anyway.

[Killer Angel]

A- That's a completely subjective interpretation. I daresay mine would be, as RAW, that the Diplomacy skill is about convincing other people to view things the way you view them and has absolutely no rules-based limits on "immediacy."

To be precise, diplomacy requires some time.
"Changing others’ attitudes with Diplomacy generally takes at least 1 full minute (10 consecutive full-round actions). In some situations, this time requirement may greatly increase. A rushed Diplomacy check can be made as a full-round action, but you take a -10 penalty on the check"
So, it depends on what's intended with "immediate".