Educational system in DND

[beowulf_gr]

As a player in a high level campaign, we are using the rules of AEG Empire and I am currently the emperor of Halruua. I am also a quasi deity with Divine rank 0 and an evil Ogre half fiend barbarian. For obvious reasons I am now setting up a church or cult if you prefer in order to increase the number of followers etc and I was thinking how to aid this by using my empire. This is how I came up with the idea of estabilishing a sort of educational system in my empire. The general outline would be as follows:


"Primary school" - 6 yrs, compulsory, teaches the basics (reading/writing etc, you get out of it with 1 or 2 levels of commoner
"Secondary school" - 3 yrs, also compulsory, some specialization, you get one level of expert.
"High school" - 3 yrs, optional, more specialization, 1 or 2 lvls of expert
"College" - Again obviously optional, you choose to train as a warrior, adept, or aristocrat
"Sunday school" for adults where if you go you will be getting some food and some recognition in the local community (By means of being allowed to kill ppl you don't like etc as you have the favor of the (evil) authorities)


Obviously this wouldn't be done for humanitarian reasons, but rather as a means of powerful propaganda and indoctrination, both for the worship of my character as a religion and as a tool to ensure loyal but capable subjects for my empire. (Any similarities with actual modern educational systems that accomplish the same goals is purely incidental :tongue:)

The question is this. Do you think it's too far of a stretch for a barbarian, even with an INT of 15, to come up with this entire idea in a DnD world? How could I justify it ingame? Also how would you go about implementing this? Any input is welcome

[AuraTwilight]

The idea of an educational system, in general? No, it sounds plausible for your character to come up with.

Literally the entire modern educational infrastructure? No way. That's pretty much meta-gaming. Even if you're smart enough to wrap your head around the idea you still need to account for the fact that your character grew up in a feudalist world of city-states that doesn't even have a non-barter system of economic exchange. You're fighting against everything your character has ever known and internalized about how society works.

[Sam K]

Because you live in a society that is for some reason stuck in the dark ages (despite technomancy that makes cold fusion look trivial), people may not have TIME to get educated. Most commoners still work by the hours of daylight, and spending a couple of hours a day learning about "the great leader" might mean they starve.

[beowulf_gr]

Because you live in a society that is for some reason stuck in the dark ages (despite technomancy that makes cold fusion look trivial), people may not have TIME to get educated. Most commoners still work by the hours of daylight, and spending a couple of hours a day learning about "the great leader" might mean they starve.

The idea is for them to start at a very young age when this isn't so much an issue. Also food is quite cheap and if the whole idea works it's definitely worth spending a couple of hundred thousand GP a year feeding all those peasants if it means I get my followers.

[TuggyNE]

The idea is for them to start at a very young age when this isn't so much an issue.

Since children often started helping with the family livelihood well before they turned ten, this may be a serious challenge. You can't fit 9 years of mandatory schooling into that, never mind the 7+ years of optional schooling.

[beowulf_gr]

So what would you suggest would be a reasonable alternative to achieve more or less the same goal? i.e. facilitating the conversion to my faith of as many of my subjects as possible

[rmnimoc]

Since children often started helping with the family livelihood well before they turned ten, this may be a serious challenge. You can't fit 9 years of mandatory schooling into that, never mind the 7+ years of optional schooling.

"Hey wizard, I'll do you a divine favor if you whip up some temporal portal shenanigans for me."
"Sure thing."
Now they get done with school before their parents finish blinking. Secondary bonus, they get to skip their child's teenage years. Plus they can go straight to working and singing your praises in no time flat.


can't

I have no idea what that means. Can someone please explain it to me?

Edit: Future me (from 2 minutes in the future) just teleported through time to tell me that he just travelled to both the beginning and end of every plane of existance (sans astral), unmade Cthulhu, and turned arrows into spaceships capable of breaking the speed of light. He also said that despite his best efforts he failed to find that word you speak of, because it obviously doesn't exist. I'll do all that stuff he did to find that word and prove future me wrong, because screw that jerk!

[MrNobody]

A realistic way to spread education AND you faith is a Type of school that was built up here in Italy between XIX and the beginning of XX century: i think i can translate it with "army school".

You set up a compulsory military service for young men, one or two year long. In this period, as well as the military training, soldiers must attend a few hours of school every day (simple subjects like reading, writing, math and, obviously, your religion). A final exam is due at the end of the service: a soldier cannot be disbanded if it doesn't pass it.
When the soldier goes home, he is a more learned man, and will likely start spreading what he learned between the members of his familiy, both by relating his experience and encouraging his children/younger parents to attend school.

In the same period were also organized "agrarian school" in the country. With the excuse of spreading between farmers new method of cultivating, they forced people to learn reading and writing.

The first type worked really well since was organized right after Italy reached his unity and was used to spread the new ideology born with the state. So I think it would help spreading your cult.
Also, you are a barbarian, and i think that a military school would fit you better than an "erudite" type of school you described.

[beowulf_gr]

Dude this is an awesome idea. Thanks a lot. I think this will do perfectly for my campaign

[Jeff the Green]

We're talking about the canon Halruaa, right? As in even the barber is an epic wizard?

Just get one of the Int 30 guys floating around to design it for you and it can be as complex and modern as you want. We're talking about a da Vinci on every street corner.

[hamishspence]

In 3.0 FRCS, it states that even in Halruaa, only 1 in 10 people are any kind of arcane spellcaster (though something like 1/3 have that Regional Feat that grants a few 0th level spell-like abilities).

[Duke of Urrel]

The question is this. Do you think it's too far of a stretch for a barbarian, even with an INT of 15, to come up with this entire idea in a DnD world? How could I justify it ingame? Also how would you go about implementing this? Any input is welcome

The hardest part of your whole plan, for me, is the fluff. Barbarians are all illiterate, at least at first, and they are never Lawful. A program of universal education really needs either (1) wide-spread love of learning – and an open curriculum to keep this love burning – or (2) the grim force of law behind it. Otherwise, a society simply won't invest the money required to sustain universal education. On the other hand, there are other ways for barbarian rulers to make propaganda. They use oral communication. Bards sing your praises, and clerics preach obedience to you in all the temples. If anybody says something about you that you don't like, you have them killed. Literacy is too likely to give your subjects tools that they can use to overthrow you.

But suppose your cult really does develop as you say. I think the best explanation would be that one of your demi-god barbarian's Lawful minions originally came up with the idea. Then your demi-god said, "Sure, what the Hades. Do your thing." And the rest is history.

[Coidzor]

In 3.0 FRCS, it states that even in Halruaa, only 1 in 10 people are any kind of arcane spellcaster (though something like 1/3 have that Regional Feat that grants a few 0th level spell-like abilities).

There's another one besides Magical Training which straight up lets them cast cantrips as spells?

[hamishspence]

Sorry- must have confused it in my memory with those Complete Arcane feats that grant 3 spell-like abilities (Communicator, Insightful, etc), and thought it was a better version of those.

[pwykersotz]

he failed

Future you was an imposter. Wizards do not fail.

[Tvtyrant]

Could be that you simply make a class based educational system.


Le poor:
Traveling teachers: Travel from village to village and have a little coin that authenticates them. Village has to feed and house them, and they basically just teach the kids the basics of reading and arithmetic before setting out to the next village. In larger villages the parish priest takes care of this.

Le middle class:
Apprenticeship to a merchant or other middle class individual from a young age who teaches them sums and writing as part of their job description. If they are going to become physicians/adepts/lawyers they go on to a university.

Le upper class:
You are fostered out to another noble family or raised by your own, and there is a tutor (usually one of the middle class folk) who teaches you what you all of the history, magic, and science your position needs. This tutor is traded out every few years for a different one to keep you from becoming attached and "bookish."

Le clergy:
The most educated members come out of monasteries or the upper class, and are easily the most educated class. The majority of Adepts come out of this class, along with Clerics etc. Monasteries take in children in return for payments, either by the government or wealthy families who have more children then they want inheriting their property.

[Ravens_cry]

Well, D&D basically encodes in the rules that there is some form of education going on, given that everyone but a Barbarian can read and write.

[Tvtyrant]

Well, D&D basically encodes in the rules that there is some form of education going on, given that everyone but a Barbarian can read and write.

Or reading, writing and common are just genetically built into everything. Barbarians simply trade that code for the ability to gain strength a few times a day as an ACF.

[Sith_Happens]

Because you live in a society that is for some reason stuck in the dark ages (despite technomancy that makes cold fusion look trivial), people may not have TIME to get educated. Most commoners still work by the hours of daylight, and spending a couple of hours a day learning about "the great leader" might mean they starve.

Yet they somehow manage to achieve a 100% literacy rate.:smallconfused:

EDIT: Protip: Always skim the rest of the thread before posting a reply that others are likely to think of.

[Jeff the Green]

Well, D&D basically encodes in the rules that there is some form of education going on, given that everyone but a Barbarian can read and write.

Or most people trade in their useless literacy for a +1 bonus on their money-making skill via the Illiterate trait.

[Gavinfoxx]

You should maybe take a look at this...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Z9NJIs751Af3i0IEIJwCkIp9H9YFiZYZ7u-wmYVaheI/edit

Just saying...

[Duke of Urrel]

Well, D&D basically encodes in the rules that there is some form of education going on, given that everyone but a Barbarian can read and write.

This is true, but as a DM, I usually apply three special house rules:


In agrarian societies, I consider all character classes to be literate except for barbarians and commoners. I apply the rule of the Player's Handbook only to PC classes, not to NPC classes.


I also consider commoners always to have average abilities and experts always to have elite abilities. Both classes basically belong to the medieval Third Estate, but experts (like warriors and aristocrats) are all literate, whereas commoners are illiterate. I don't consider experts always to be urban and commoners always to be rural; instead, I consider experts to be the elite of the Third Estate in both town and country. (It never made any sense to me that city-dwelling burghers should have more Hit-Points than farm-dwelling peasants.)


In primitive societies, I consider all classes to be illiterate except for clerics, druids, and rogues; however, any character belonging to a magical class, even a basically illiterate bard or sorcerer, may be able to decipher some writing with magic or Spellcraft. This crassly deviates from the Player's Handbook rule, but I think illiteracy ought to be nearly universal in primitive societies.


These are only my own house rules, but I wouldn't be surprised if other DMs use similar ones. Literacy is very strongly milieu-related, and DMs may exercise a lot of creative power over their milieux.

[Slipperychicken]

I'd say you could try to set up a basic educational system. Genghis Khan (who seems analogous to your character) was illiterate himself, yet could still see the value of literacy and education.

However, all your character could do directly is say to his advisor "I want there to be a school where people learn such-and-such", throw down several hundred thousand gold for facilities, a few thousand a year for staff, and his advisors (or whoever is actually running the operation) makes rolls over the course of a few years to determine how well it actually goes. Your character is a busy man with ruling to do, so he isn't exactly writing the curricula himself.

Of course, you aren't starting out with general public education. Education is a luxury only the wealthy can afford, and the peasants don't need book-larnin' to farm and fight when you command. You will most likely be training nobles (plus a handful of very lucky peasant savants whose villages raise the money to send them to school) for public service and the military.