Sustainable Vampire feeding

[Green Leviathan]

In short, how would we be able to feed a vampire in a (dimensionally) sealed vault for hundreds of years, assuming he has to feed once a week. Restoration cast on an Elan or similar would work but it gets rather expensive long term. Creating a custom magic item is absurdly expensive. Psionics/Incarnum/ToB/ToM are not allowed. Are there any creatures with restoration as a spell like ability?



edit: ToM also not allowed

[Diarmuid]

What about a resetting trap of summon monster?

[Green Leviathan]

From what i gather SM does not supply a lasting sustinace from the DM. Huminoid(ish) draining is also preferred.

[ahenobarbi]

There is a spell (away from books right now can't check it) that on failed save kills the target and creates 1d6 wererats. You can make a trap fireing this spell. Then you put humanoid on it and wait for it to fails save.

Repeat until you get more than 1 wererat. Eat all but one of them, put the last one in the trap. Repat for thousands of years.

[Chronos]

We could make that elan a binder with Naberius, to save the cost of the Restorations.

[Green Leviathan]

That would work. Except that i ment to add ToM to the list of stuff i'm not allowed to use. :smallannoyed:

[sleepyphoenixx]

Restoration 1/day costs 6400gp on a custom item if you get it from the Healer list. That's not exactly absurdly expensive imo.
If that's not good enough telling us what level you are and what resources your character has might help.

[ahenobarbi]

Also you could use "trap" of Create Food and Water and keep a few humans (two would let you feed for 1 round a day but you probably want more so you can have them reliably reproduce (so you can last thousands of years)).

EDIT: Vampire deals 1d4 Constitution damage/round (4 in worst case) and humans can heal it 2 a day (if you rest completely) so it'll take at worst 2 days for human to heal that

Nevermind it's Condition Drain, not Condition Damage.

[Drogorn]

In short, how would we be able to feed a vampire in a (dimensionally) sealed vault for hundreds of years, assuming he has to feed once a week. Restoration cast on an Elan or similar would work but it gets rather expensive long term. Creating a custom magic item is absurdly expensive. Psionics/Incarnum/ToB/ToM are not allowed. Are there any creatures with restoration as a spell like ability?

Is there any reason the vampire needs to be awake? Driving a stake through the heart of a vampire doesn't kill it permanently; the vampire will return if the stake is removed.

[Green Leviathan]

to give a little more detail, my fellow teammate is the vampire in question and we need to survive the coming apocolypse inside said vault, like a fallout shelter. we have VERY little money, with the assumption that we won't get much more in time. 1 WitW cleric (me), vampire rogue, bard, fighter, sorcerer and dread necro.
~lvl 14.

Healer spell list is a great idea, i "may" be able to swing it. does the 6400gp price also include the 100gp material component?

also i don't think he would co-operate being staked.

[Sith_Happens]

also i don't think he would co-operate being staked.

Not even as an alternative to centuries of boredom?

[Telonius]

Scrolls of Flesh to Stone and Stone to Flesh are 1650gp each. As long as somebody's left to change them back (and nothing breaks the statue in the meantime) it should do it.

[Green Leviathan]

Unlikly, that and i have a vested interest to keep him consious. i need to fend of boredem as well.

[Juntao112]

What happens to a vampire who doesn't feed?

[Green Leviathan]

from what i can tell he goes into a frenzy if he goes to long without feeding. i would "like" to keep everyone consious for the whole time if possible. staking the vampire and stoning the other living creatures would just leave the cleric to suffer the boredom alone.

[Eldest]

Scrolls of Flesh to Stone and Stone to Flesh are 1650gp each. As long as somebody's left to change them back (and nothing breaks the statue in the meantime) it should do it.

Vampire would be immune based on undead immunities. (did I spell that right?)
Does the blood have to be from a humanoid, or can we throw animals in there, for example? I took a loot at how to do this for a seperate game (it is a merc game, but I don't want to feed off people because paladins) and a large enough collection of mules (or war horses in your case, because you need them to breed) might work, although it would take up a lot of space. 17 con means they won't die accidentally unless you drain almost everything they got.

[Tar Palantir]

Ring of Sustenance?

[Green Leviathan]

Eldest: Was thinking along this line, but i don't think the vampire would "like" to feed off of animals. and we would have to have a sufficiently large population to allow for deaths and reproduction rates. We were trying to think of humanoid races with short life spans and high reproduction rates and thought of tri-keens. though that brings with it a whole slew of other issues, most likely insurmountable.

Tar Palantir: Simple but it might work, I’ll swing it by the DM.

also i may have mis priced a custom item earlier. if a cleric created a 1/day command word that would be:
4x7x1800x.2+100x100=20080 base
10040 gp to craft, 803.2 exp, ~20 days to create

is my math correct?

[Sam K]

Spell component bag.

[Flickerdart]

Capture a cleric, Dominate him, take him into the vault with you and use him as a self-replenishing source of blood.

[Green Leviathan]

Flickerdart: I'm worried with how little liquid assests we have if we can afford the spell component costs long term. still may be cheaper then creating the item. plus we already have a cleric so the kidnaping is optional.

[Sith_Happens]

Incapacitate the Tarrasque via the method of your choice. A creature doesn't need a positive CON score to be blood drainable, it just has to be alive. The Tarrasque can be alive with zero CON.

[Flickerdart]

Flickerdart: I'm worried with how little liquid assests we have if we can afford the spell component costs long term. still may be cheaper then creating the item. plus we already have a cleric so the kidnaping is optional.
Lesser restoration doesn't have a component, is only level 2, and restores the same 1d4 damage that a vampire drains.

[ahenobarbi]

Flickerdart: I'm worried with how little liquid assests we have if we can afford the spell component costs long term. still may be cheaper then creating the item. plus we already have a cleric so the kidnaping is optional.

Check this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16826856) to solve your reproduction problems.

Unfortunatelly reseting trap of it would cost 33'000gp. But if you get access to Pestilence domain you can cast it yourself!

[Sith_Happens]

Lesser restoration doesn't have a component, is only level 2, and restores the same 1d4 damage that a vampire drains.

Vampires deal CON drain, not CON damage.

[Nettlekid]

What about a Phoenix from MMII? You said the vault was dimensionally locked, so it's pretty stuck in there. The Vampire feeds off of the Phoenix until sated, then attacks it with everything it has at its disposal. The Phoenix sees it's about to die and immolates, producing a brand-new Phoenix. This doubles as a means to keep the Vampire entertained (or well, at least give it something to do) since Phoenixes have a lot of pretty tricky SLAs to use, like Veil (1/day) and Invisibility for trickery, Summon Nature's Ally IX for support,(forgot, dimensionally sealed) Polymorph (Self, just change to Polymorph) for offensive versatility, Fire Seeds and Heal (against a Vampire) for pure offense, and Heal to help itself. Every day of those hundreds of years, the Vampire is locked in battle with generations of mighty firebirds. It probably gets really good at killing them by the end of it all.

[Annos]

Ring of Sustenance?

The ring or the Ion stones are the cheapest way of doing so. IMO

[Green Leviathan]

Sith_Happens: i thought tarrasque was immune to ability drain but i can't remember, funny though.

Flickerdart: doesn't heal drain unfortunatly

ahenobarbi: just slightly out of reach but i will keep it in mind and point it out if it becomes an option.

some good ideas, keep em coming.

[Green Leviathan]

Nettlekid: I love this so much. i can just imagine a tapistry painted with this epic struggle.

[Coidzor]

What are you doing mucking around with dimensionally sealing yourselves away in a magical ark if you don't have the necessary magical mojo and money to feed yourselves? :smallconfused:

I assume that you've already had rings of sustenance banned by the DM earlier on in the campaign for when he wouldn't have wanted to muck about with finding a victim to feed off of so he could concentrate on the adventuring at hand and you haven't just completely overlooked them.

[Sith_Happens]

Sith_Happens: i thought tarrasque was immune to ability drain but i can't remember, funny though.

It's immune to ability damage but not drain, which is why the preferred way to take it out at low levels is by Summon Undead IV'ing an Allip.

[(Un)Inspired]

Wait till he's asleep in his coffin then defang him. Let him go on a hunger rampage if he wants. What he gonna do? Gum you to death?

[Green Leviathan]

Coidzor: Because we don't have the nessisary mojo to stop the appocolype. The Fallout shelter is a last ditch effort offered up by plot. I don't think the ring of sustenance will work for a vampire but i can ask.

[Pan151]

What happens to a vampire who doesn't feed?

Every 3 days the vampire does not consume blood (and every day it does not consume lifeforce) it has to pass a will save, or take permanent wisdom drain (which is reversed the next time it feeds, and only then). At 0 wisdom it becomes berserk (the dm takes control of the character and attempts to feed at all costs)

With moderate willsave optimisation you can make a vampire that never actually has to drink blood. The tricky part is the lifeforce addiction, because the DC is much higher and has to be passed every single day (but you can eventually get there as well)


At any rate, just seal the vampire in a vampire-mist-proof coffin. When the apocalypse is over, drip some blood in the coffin and everything will be fine. It's nt the optimal solution, but it's the cheapest one.

[Dr. Azkur]

Just go away... you've been able to plane shift since 4 levels ago. There you go, anywhere in the universe.

In case this is a universal apocalypse then shadow walk into other universes. Yeah you can do that. You have to go to the center of the plane of shadows, which will certainly be more interesting than playing cards on a bunker forever.

If you're determined to become lovers with your party members (I'm pretty sure you're going to need sex at some point or another), not to mention freaking insane. Then just put a stack through the damned thing's heart. Puss might be afraid of splinters but if his self-presservation instinct was working right then he'd understand how much of an advantage it is not to have to go through the torture of an apocalypse bunker.
-Although he might wake up to find his old comrades turned into a bunch of stir crazies-


At any rate, just seal the vampire in a vampire-mist-proof coffin. When the apocalypse is over, drip some blood in the coffin and everything will be fine. It's nt the optimal solution, but it's the cheapest one.

Well isn't that the cruelest thing you can put someone through? Imagine someone going through a never-ending heroin addiction, without heroin. This is kind of it.

I'd do it.

[Darrin]

Chop off a troll's arm. Burn the rest of the troll. Every few days, suck out the blood from the arm and chew it back down to a manageable size.

[ahenobarbi]

Well... if the vampire agrees to feed on animals you can use Bag of Tricks...

EDIT: I assumed Plane Shifting won't work, but if it does find a plane with slow-flowing time to shorten time before you can return.

Also You could turn into stone all of you and set continent spell to trigger whatever-number-of-years-you-think-you-need to Stone to Flesh you and then restore your comrades yourself (this way you perceive only a few days of passed time).

[Flickerdart]

Chop off a troll's arm. Burn the rest of the troll. Every few days, suck out the blood from the arm and chew it back down to a manageable size.
Burning the troll is fire damage which kills it, so the arm won't regenerate. Also, "attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage ignore regeneration" so blood drain will kill it.

[Sith_Happens]

Burning the troll is fire damage which kills it, so the arm won't regenerate. Also, "attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage ignore regeneration" so blood drain will kill it.

Which is why I suggesting using the Tarrasque, which specifically doesn't die from anything short of a Wish or Miracle.

[Flickerdart]

Which is why I suggesting using the Tarrasque, which specifically doesn't die from anything short of a Wish or Miracle.
While this is true, it's not invulnerable to ability drain, so you can still drain it dry and then it's useless.

[Sith_Happens]

While this is true, it's not invulnerable to ability drain, so you can still drain it dry and then it's useless.


A vampire can suck blood from a living victim with its fangs by making a successful grapple check. If it pins the foe, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution drain each round the pin is maintained. On each such successful attack, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points.

I don't see anything about the target needing to have a positive Constitution score, it just has to be living.

[Flickerdart]

I don't see anything about the target needing to have a positive Constitution score, it just has to be living.
The hunger rules are from Libris Mortis, which IIRC specifies that you have to actually drain some Con to satisfy your craving.

[re_e]

Psionic restoration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/restorationPsionic.htm) and psychic chirurgery (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicChirurgery.htm) can restore ability drain without any cost.

A 10th level healer can use greater restoration without cost one time per day.

A Dweomerkeeper can cast limited wish to replicate restoration as a supernatural ability, ignoring any cost.

[Dr. Azkur]

The hunger rules are from Libris Mortis, which IIRC specifies that you have to actually drain some Con to satisfy your craving.

I think he's appealing to letting the Tarrasque's CON sink to a negative score. (I have no opinion over this)

[Clistenes]

Has anybody mentioned the Ring of Sustenance, or am I the first one?

[Erik Vale]

There is a spell (away from books right now can't check it) that on failed save kills the target and creates 1d6 wererats. You can make a trap fireing this spell. Then you put humanoid on it and wait for it to fails save.

Repeat until you get more than 1 wererat. Eat all but one of them, put the last one in the trap. Repat for thousands of years.

Skipping to the end. This spell requires a pint of blood. Which is listed as a free material component.

As mentioned [by me] in another thread, you could cheaply sustain a vampire by giving it a component pouch.

However as was also pointed out, it contains live spiders and bat guano, and no vampire is going to want to drink from it any more than it has to, and it may have to make fort saves vs vomiting and will saves vs dear god really?

Edit/Backreading: Apparently you need the thing to have a con score. Drink the spiders from the component pouch?
You'd need lots of them, good thing you have unlimited of them from somewhere.

[Dr. Azkur]

Has anybody mentioned the Ring of Sustenance, or am I the first one?


Ring of Sustenance?

Just sayin'

[Erik Vale]

Well... if the vampire agrees to feed on animals you can use Bag of Tricks...


Backreading basically done. I think this may be the best bet. As a bonus, you could then cut up the animal for food, assuming you don't have everlasting rations/rings of sustenence. That, and it avoids imagination stretching/urge to vomit that comes with a 5 gp component pouch.

[Nettlekid]

Can we clarify (because I don't think it was?) are you the vampire, or do you have a vampire trapped that you need to keep trapped? Just out of curiosity.

I still like using the Phoenix. Work for your meal, vampy.

[Jack_Simth]

If a vampire counts as "carnivorous", then a Sustaining Spoon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#sustainingSpoon) will do the job (do note you will want someone able to cast Prestidigitation).

Any method of cheating spell components for Restoration will do... and has been mentioned.

A Planetar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm#angelPlanetar) or Solar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm#angelSolar) gets Greater Restoration as a spell-like ability. You'll need some way to control it, though, which will be tricky.

If you can capture and control a Mirror Memphit (Expidition to the Demonweb Pits), they get Simulacrum as a spell-like ability, 1/day, at caster level 8. Simulacrums have Con scores, and are usually considered to be living creatures. That gives you an uncapped source of food.

[Erik Vale]

Can we clarify (because I don't think it was?) are you the vampire, or do you have a vampire trapped that you need to keep trapped? Just out of curiosity.

I still like using the Phoenix. Work for your meal, vampy.

Not the asker, the vampire is a party member [rogue]

[Necroticplague]

If a vampire counts as "carnivorous", then a Sustaining Spoon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#sustainingSpoon) will do the job (do note you will want someone able to cast Prestidigitation).

Vampire's aren't carnivorous: they are inediate. They don't actually need to consume to live, they just start going crazy without it.

Of course, in addition to blood, they also need to gain energy by inflicting negative levels. To this end, I second the bag of tricks suggestion.

[TuggyNE]

Every 3 days the vampire does not consume blood (and every day it does not consume lifeforce) it has to pass a will save, or take permanent wisdom drain (which is reversed the next time it feeds, and only then).

That's just strange, since creatures with Con - (like vampires) are immune to all ability drain. Dysfunctional rule ahoy?

[Tommy2255]

That's just strange, since creatures with Con - (like vampires) are immune to all ability drain. Dysfunctional rule ahoy?

I think it's just a case of specific trumps general. It's pretty obvious what RAI is.

[Baroknik]

To those mentioning ring of sustenance:


"This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment...."

Since vamps have no life it wouldn't do much.

[TuggyNE]

I think it's just a case of specific trumps general. It's pretty obvious what RAI is.

If it said "vampires are not immune to this", or if undead were specifically not immune to ability drain, that would be the case by RAW. Unfortunately, those specific rules don't exist.

RAI does seem fairly clear though.

[Green Leviathan]

Ring doesn't work apprently according to DM, only affects living targets (his rule). A Planetar or Solar are probably out of our reach atm and we are considered an evil party so they won't do it willingly. Spell component pouch seems way to cheesy to let slide. mirror mephet might work if we could ever find one. Dweomerkeeper prestige doesn't exist in his world. We did however recently manage to get a horned devil locked into a servitude contract, so if i can get a restoration item created we might have a shot at that route. Thanks for all the input! bag of tricks would probably work too, he doesn't like feeding on animals though.

[dragonkingofthe]

In case this is a universal apocalypse then shadow walk into other universes. Yeah you can do that. You have to go to the center of the plane of shadows, which will certainly be more interesting than playing cards on a bunker forever..

I thought some beings did not like people doing this and were lible to sick Neutronium golems or something on you if you tried.

to the op: you could go with the order of the sticks solution and have him munch on another player while having another endlessly prepare and cast restoration

[Flickerdart]

I thought some beings did not like people doing this and were lible to sick Neutronium golems or something on you if you tried.
An appropriate typo, because the entire Immortals Handbook is vomit.

[Rubik]

Wall of Stone + Stone to Flesh = Free vegan blood source?

Corpse + Polymorph Any Object = Living creature to drain to 0 = Fodder for Polymorph Any Object?

[Flickerdart]

Wall of Stone + Stone to Flesh = Free vegan blood source?
Where are you getting blood from, exactly?



Corpse + Polymorph Any Object = Living creature to drain to 0 = Fodder for Polymorph Any Object?
This seems like it could work, if the party could cast it.

[(Un)Inspired]

Could you just polymorph the vampire into an undying? Just let him hang out as Casper the friendly ghost until all that apocalypse ruckus calms down. Then you just change him back.

[Coidzor]

Ring doesn't work apprently according to DM, only affects living targets (his rule).

bag of tricks would probably work too, he doesn't like feeding on animals though.

That would be too easy for this DM, I suppose.

Well, tell him to suck it up, becoming a vampire as a rogue of all things and not being able to take care of his own petty needs. :smalltongue:

[Sith_Happens]

bag of tricks would probably work too, he doesn't like feeding on animals though.

You're getting ready to hide out in an apocalypse bunker for centuries. There's some measure of inconvenience innately involved in that.


Corpse + Polymorph Any Object = Living creature to drain to 0 = Fodder for Polymorph Any Object?

If this means the following then it's genius, if not then I just had the best idea:

1. Polymorph Any Object one of his spawn into something living.
2. Suck it dry.
3. Bury it for 1d4 days. It is now a vampire spawn.
4. Go to 1.

[Eldest]

Ring doesn't work apprently according to DM, only affects living targets (his rule). A Planetar or Solar are probably out of our reach atm and we are considered an evil party so they won't do it willingly. Spell component pouch seems way to cheesy to let slide. mirror mephet might work if we could ever find one. Dweomerkeeper prestige doesn't exist in his world. We did however recently manage to get a horned devil locked into a servitude contract, so if i can get a restoration item created we might have a shot at that route. Thanks for all the input! bag of tricks would probably work too, he doesn't like feeding on animals though.

Quite seriously, about time he realizes he can't have a charmed life in a bunker hiding from the apocolypse. That could be the flesh to stone -> stone to flesh setup, or drinking from animals, or getting staked, or just starving for hundreds of years, but he will not have a fun time. He will continue his blasphomous unlife, though. Better than most. So he might have to suck it up (puns!) and chose the best of the bad options.

I would suggest trying to put a village in status with the flesh to stone -> stone to flesh setup, to make sure after you get out there exist more people.