Gnome twist cloth proficiency

[Jgosse]

Is it worth it to take Gnome twist cloth proficiency? I have a Dex mod of 15 so I can't think of any other armor that would allow for that kind of max Dex. so I am just wondering if the bonus to touch ac is worth taking the proficiency? I will probably max it out so +5/+5 so that would be a +6 to Touch AC.

[Snowbluff]

I'd say so. Having a ton of touch AC is great. While you are at it, use the CM variants that replace Trap Sense and Evasion. :smalltongue:

[Nettlekid]

Nah, probably not worth the feat. Since your Dex is so high already, and that goes to touch AC, you're pretty well covered. A feat is a large investment and a precious resource, and just getting +6 to your Touch AC for it isn't the worst choice in the world, but there are many much better ones.

EDIT: I should say, if you were to get Heroics cast on you to gain a Fighter Bonus Feat, then by all means grab Exotic Armor Proficiency: Light as a free bonus feat. +6 to your Touch AC isn't at all bad, it's just that you probably don't want to spend a real proper feat on it.

[Rebel7284]

Mechanus Gear is not listed as having a maximum DEX and gives +10AC. Not all DMs would be OK with that though. =)

[Jgosse]

Mechanus Gear is not listed as having a maximum DEX and gives +10AC. Not all DMs would be OK with that though. =)

What source is that from?

[Jgosse]

Nah, probably not worth the feat. Since your Dex is so high already, and that goes to touch AC, you're pretty well covered. A feat is a large investment and a precious resource, and just getting +6 to your Touch AC for it isn't the worst choice in the world, but there are many much better ones.

EDIT: I should say, if you were to get Heroics cast on you to gain a Fighter Bonus Feat, then by all means grab Exotic Armor Proficiency: Light as a free bonus feat. +6 to your Touch AC isn't at all bad, it's just that you probably don't want to spend a real proper feat on it.

Well as of right now I have 1 feat that I have not spent and not sure what to take and another that I am not sure if I am keeping that being animal cohort. I have realized it may not be so useful to have a dragon hawk mount if the party is going to hell.

Feats
1 EWP great bow
2 Wf GB
3 Point blank shot
4 Animal Cohort
5 Wepon spec
6 Precise shot
7 Greater wepon focus
8 Far shot
9 Greater weapon spec
10 Improved Rapid Shot
11 Dead Eye
12 improved favored enemy
13 swift hunter
14
15 (Epic) Distant shot

[kardar233]

Mechanus Gear has a +0 Maximum Dexterity Bonus and furthermore reduces your movement to half your base speed.

What you may be thinking of is the Clockwork Armour (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070212a), which has no listed Max Dex Bonus, +8 AC and gives bonuses to Strength and Dexterity, but has the downside of being somewhat expensive and also being able to be attacked.

[Fouredged Sword]

I wouldn't bother. You can wear it for the +6 to normal AC without prof, so I would just do that (ACP of 0 means no penalty for non-prof). Get it enchanted with Ghost Ward and get a casting of Greater Magic Vestments for +5 to touch AC.

I would spend that feat on improved Skirmish. +2d6 damage and +2 AC isn't to be shrugged at.

[Nettlekid]

Mechanus Gear is not listed as having a maximum DEX and gives +10AC. Not all DMs would be OK with that though. =)

Mechanus Gear is from the Planar Handbook, but I'm looking at it right now, and it unambiguously states in the table that the Max Dex Bonus is +0, which is to say, you cannot apply any of your Dex bonus to AC. So what do you mean, not listed as having a maximum Dex?

A kind of armor that really DOESN'T have a max Dex listed (maybe you were thinking of this, since it's kind of gear-y?) is the Clockwork Armor (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070212a). With decent Spellcraft or Craft (Construct), you can get Heavy Armor that grants +4 Str and +4 Dex as circumstance bonuses, so they'll probably stack with what you have. It's also +8 to AC and increases your speed by 5 ft. It has a harsh ACP and ASF, but only if you're nonproficient with Heavy Armor. Since it only mentions ACP and ASF for nonproficient users, I can only assume that it doesn't have them for proficient users (and that may be intended; it states that the armor supports most of its own weight and since it gives bonuses to Str and Dex, it's almost hard to justify it weighing you down.) Nowhere in that article is max Dex listed. So it may take some convincing, but it's pretty great if it works.

EDIT: Grr, ninja'd due to detail.

[Rebel7284]

A kind of armor that really DOESN'T have a max Dex listed (maybe you were thinking of this, since it's kind of gear-y?) is the Clockwork Armor (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070212a).

I was certainly thinking of it. Thanks!

[Jgosse]

Mechanus Gear is from the Planar Handbook, but I'm looking at it right now, and it unambiguously states in the table that the Max Dex Bonus is +0, which is to say, you cannot apply any of your Dex bonus to AC. So what do you mean, not listed as having a maximum Dex?

A kind of armor that really DOESN'T have a max Dex listed (maybe you were thinking of this, since it's kind of gear-y?) is the Clockwork Armor (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070212a). With decent Spellcraft or Craft (Construct), you can get Heavy Armor that grants +4 Str and +4 Dex as circumstance bonuses, so they'll probably stack with what you have. It's also +8 to AC and increases your speed by 5 ft. It has a harsh ACP and ASF, but only if you're nonproficient with Heavy Armor. Since it only mentions ACP and ASF for nonproficient users, I can only assume that it doesn't have them for proficient users (and that may be intended; it states that the armor supports most of its own weight and since it gives bonuses to Str and Dex, it's almost hard to justify it weighing you down.) Nowhere in that article is max Dex listed. So it may take some convincing, but it's pretty great if it works.

EDIT: Grr, ninja'd due to detail.

ok so I just checked out the article now the vulnerability seems to be a turn off but enhancing it will improve the hardness and hp of the armor if I am not mistaken. so what would the hp and hardness be on a +5/+5 clockwork armor?

[Snowbluff]

ok so I just checked out the article now the vulnerability seems to be a turn off but enhancing it will improve the hardness and hp of the armor if I am not mistaken. so what would the hp and hardness be on a +5/+5 clockwork armor?

+5 would add 10 to the hardness.

[Metahuman1]

I though you couldn't try to sunder worn armor?

[Rebel7284]

There is also Hardening (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/hardening--4682/) which doesn't seem to have a cap for boosting hardness. Becoming immune to fire and centering fireballs on yourself seems pretty effective against the freezing thing.

[Rebel7284]

I though you couldn't try to sunder worn armor?

This is correct. Clockwork armor has specific rules for it that overwrite the general rule.

[Snowbluff]

I though you couldn't try to sunder worn armor?
Even if you can not, the armor is a specific rule.

EDIT: Gnomed.

[Metahuman1]

Oh. Well, in that case, have it made out of Riverine form Stromwrack.

Then have a bunch of auto resetting traps put in with various effects that trigger if it's targeted by anything that does a disintegrate effect, or is a Rod of Cancellation, Spear of annaliation or a Dysjuntion.

Sure, it's vastly overpriced, but it makes the armor indestructible.



Or, you know, make a Twist clock and drop +1 Ghost Ward on it and a Magic Vestment's, and then stick like Soul Fire or Freedom on it as you get higher levels. Don't even need a feat for it case there's no penalty. If the DM rules that 5% arcane spell failure is a risk to something instead, get it the Twilight armor property form book of exulted deeds so that you don't risk failing on that either. Boom, problem solved.

[Snowbluff]

Riverine? Force effect, right? Add Thunderlance to the list of weaknesses. Black Blade of Destruction would do it, too. Riverine is pretty overrated, and just adds another fatal weakness to the armor.

Make the armor out of Adamantine would be my suggestion. If it needs more, add a hardness spell.

Make it a Githcraft Twistcloth. Twilight is overpriced.

[Morcleon]

Make the armor out of Adamantine would be my suggestion. If it needs more, add a hardness spell.

Eh, if you're going that far, why not go all the way? Make it out of magically treated obdurium (Stronghold Builder's Guide), then get a Hardening spell placed on at, say, CL 20 and a Matter Manipulation power. Then you have a hardness of 75. :smallbiggrin:

[Snowbluff]

Eh, if you're going that far, why not go all the way? Make it out of magically treated obdurium (Stronghold Builder's Guide), then get a Hardening spell placed on at, say, CL 20 and a Matter Manipulation power. Then you have a hardness of 75. :smallbiggrin:

I would say an adamant suit is overkill, but why not? :smallsmile:
Iron Man reference lolz
What would you do about the icing problem?

[Nettlekid]

There is also Hardening (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/hardening--4682/) which doesn't seem to have a cap for boosting hardness. Becoming immune to fire and centering fireballs on yourself seems pretty effective against the freezing thing.

The only restriction there is that it's a Permanent effect, not Instantaneous, which means that the spell is always ongoing and so multiple castings overlap, but they don't stack. So you only get the biggest. If you have a high CL (or know someone who does) it's a good way to boost Hardness, though.

If you keep an Eternal Wand of Repair Serious Damage (or a Schema of Total Repair if you want to be serious about it) then you should be able to fix up any damage done to the armor pretty easily. Remember, the point of armor is to stop you from getting hit. Any attack against the armor is an attack that isn't aimed at you. It has AC 5+your Dex+Deflection, which for you is 22+whatever Deflection you may have, which is pretty good considering they're just trying to hit your armor.

So the opponent attacks the armor and probably hits, but maybe misses. Your +5 Armor with Hardening on it (assuming CL 20, but it could easily be higher if you're in Epic) has Hardness 30 and 150 HP. It ignores 30 damage from any attack, and it'll have to take 50 points of damage (it's a shame the article didn't say "When it has 50 HP left" instead of "When 50 points of damage accrue," but that's life) in order to start going wrong. It'll only go wrong if you can't make a not-too-big Reflex save each subsequent time the armor gets hit, which is again aided by the armor's Hardness decreasing the damage and thus the save DC. If you get worried about it, use that Repair Serious Damage or Total Repair to top it up good as new.

The cold damage thing, especially at Epic levels, is trivial. It says that you can thaw by taking fire damage equal to the cold damage you took. Thus, don't become immune to fire (well, do that too, but more importantly) become immune to cold! Even if your DM rules that the suit still freezes, you'll need to take at least 0 fire damage to restore it, which arguably you're taking right now, but more reasonable can be done with any sort of Wand, item, or other contingent method of using Energy Substitution Sonic Snap. If you don't want to be immune to fire. Being immune to fire means you can detonate Fireballs at your feet, as was suggested above.

Shoot, I'm selling myself on this armor. I want to use it the next chance I get.

[Rebel7284]

You can also use a ring of arming to swap it for another armor if, against all odds, it DOES get disabled in a way you can't (or don't want to) instantly repair.

But yes, if they are doing 80ish damage to your armor, it does mean they didn't do 80ish damage to your face!

[Morcleon]

I would say an adamant suit is overkill, but why not? :smallsmile:
Iron Man reference lolz
What would you do about the icing problem?

Arguably, immunity to cold would allow you to not have to make saving throws against cold based effects. If this isn't allowed, get immunity to fire as well and do what Nettlekid said.

You could also make it an intelligent magic item for 2700 gp (and thus making it a creature), then persist anticold sphere. Or you could persist energy nullification sphere (cold). The downside with this second option is that you can't manifest [cold] powers either.

[Snowbluff]

Shoot, I'm selling myself on this armor. I want to use it the next chance I get.
I'm using it in the Terrible Campaign when it starts. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325904)

Arguably, immunity to cold would allow you to not have to make saving throws against cold based effects. If this isn't allowed, get immunity to fire as well and do what Nettlekid said.

You could also make it an intelligent magic item for 2700 gp (and thus making it a creature), then persist anticold sphere. Or you could persist energy nullification sphere (cold). The downside with this second option is that you can't manifest [cold] powers either.
Not using cold stuff is fine.

[Rebel7284]

No results found for "energy nullification sphere" D&D.

Please clarify.

[Morcleon]

Not using cold stuff is fine.

Yeah. Or you could get some form of Selective Power. :smalltongue:


Please clarify.

Sorry. That's supposed to be Energy Nullification Field. >.<

[Sam K]

Eh, if you're going that far, why not go all the way? Make it out of magically treated obdurium (Stronghold Builder's Guide), then get a Hardening spell placed on at, say, CL 20 and a Matter Manipulation power. Then you have a hardness of 75. :smallbiggrin:

Mountain hammer: 1 level 2 manouver.
Adaptive style: 1 feat.
Changing manouvers with adaptive style: 1 full round.

Breaking clockwork armor with hardness 75 in one strike: priceless.

[Nettlekid]

Mountain hammer: 1 level 2 manouver.
Adaptive style: 1 feat.
Changing manouvers with adaptive style: 1 full round.

Breaking clockwork armor with hardness 75 in one strike: priceless.

You seem to have left out the part where the Initiator does damage. Mountain Hammer is a standard action activation, so they won't be charging and dealing a devastating Shock Trooper Leap Attack blow with it. They'll be doing ~4d6+10 or so. ~24 damage is not going to shatter this fellow's world. Even if they did this when the armor was already at its breaking point, a DC 34 Reflex save is well within this guy's capability, since it seems he's going for the Swift Hunter approach and will have a great reflex save with that Dex mod of 17.

[Snowbluff]

You seem to have left out the part where the Initiator does damage. Mountain Hammer is a standard action activation, so they won't be charging and dealing a devastating Shock Trooper Leap Attack blow with it. They'll be doing ~4d6+10 or so. ~24 damage is not going to shatter this fellow's world. Even if they did this when the armor was already at its breaking point, a DC 34 Reflex save is well within this guy's capability, since it seems he's going for the Swift Hunter approach and will have a great reflex save with that Dex mod of 17.

Add twice the Initiator's level, since he's not missing AC 5.

[Jgosse]

as the campaign is going literally to hell.I think I would go fire immunity though I am not sure I would need to worry about freezing in hell.

what kind of armor proficiency is this, I can't find mention of it.

[Rebel7284]

Add twice the Initiator's level, since he's not missing AC 5.

5 + Dex + Deflection = 22+Deflection

Or easily AC 27.

[Nettlekid]

5 + Dex + Deflection = 22+Deflection

Or easily AC 27.

Still probably not going to miss it, but still. Actually, where's that 2*IL coming from? I don't see it.

In any case, the OP is building a super archer, so melee combat will probably be a nonissue anyway. In the niche case of Mountain Hammer, I give you Air Walk or Fly or whatever you want to get off the ground far enough that the Stone Dragon user won't be able to initiate his maneuvers.

And once again, unless they're doing 150 damage with that single Mountain Hammer, you can patch up your armor with Total Repair or the like. That's a lot of damage not done to you, so well done there.

And I loved the earlier suggestion someone gave about the Ring of Storing. That's a good idea.

[Snowbluff]

27, right.


Still probably not going to miss it, but still. Actually, where's that 2*IL coming from? I don't see it.


Power Attack. You have to be bleeding from the head if you aren't using it while breaking stuff.

[Nettlekid]

27, right.



Power Attack. You have to be bleeding from the head if you aren't using it while breaking stuff.

Oh, okay. I thought that at first, but had no idea why you said "initiator level" and not BAB. Especially when Swordsages could be doing this, and their IL isn't the same as their BAB. Or any multiclassed initiator.

Anyway, since you won't be using Mountain Hammer on a charge, suddenly subtracting BAB from their attack roll makes hitting that AC 22-27 a little less reliable.

[Snowbluff]

Anyway, since you won't be using Mountain Hammer on a charge, suddenly subtracting BAB from their attack roll makes hitting that AC 22-27 a little less reliable.

Having a fifty at level 20 should be about right.

[Nettlekid]

Having a fifty at level 20 should be about right.

I guess so. Still, if someone is statted as a Power Attacker who's relying on all that, it seems a waste to walk up to someone and use Mountain Hammer with the intent of destroying the armor. That attack won't do 150 damage so the armor is still safe and can be repaired. Meanwhile the OP has just been spared an attack, the Stone Dragon user is adjacent (or within their own reach distance) which rather precludes a more powerful charge on the next round, and if the OP has been staying back as an archer then the Stone Dragon user is now in the midst of the OP's team and their own BSFs. All in all, this is a pretty good situation for the OP, so I expect the armor has proven worthwhile.

And again, just fly, and the Mountain Hammer issue is rendered moot.

[Snowbluff]

And again, just fly, and the Mountain Hammer issue is rendered moot.

Yep. I think the strat was bad, like Stone Dragon, but I didn't want it to be misrepresented the way it was.

[Jgosse]

as the campaign is going literally to hell.I think I would go fire immunity though I am not sure I would need to worry about freezing in hell.

what kind of armor proficiency is this, I can't find mention of it.

also how would this armor affect flight via wings. would I count the whole weight or just part as I normally would according to the description.

[Nettlekid]

also how would this armor affect flight via wings. would I count the whole weight or just part as I normally would according to the description.

Hmm, good question. As the armor description states, you only add 70 lbs to your encumbrance, so it would only count as 70 lbs. But you're quite right, it makes sense that if there are 250 lbs of matter on your person, and nothing to support itself against like the ground, then it would weigh 250 lbs. I think RAW it weighs 70 no matter what, but if I was DM I would call it the full 250 when flying. Of course when I'm DM I ignore encumbrance anyway, so meh. The +4 Str it gives you should help offset the weight, right?

[Jgosse]

Hmm, good question. As the armor description states, you only add 70 lbs to your encumbrance, so it would only count as 70 lbs. But you're quite right, it makes sense that if there are 250 lbs of matter on your person, and nothing to support itself against like the ground, then it would weigh 250 lbs. I think RAW it weighs 70 no matter what, but if I was DM I would call it the full 250 when flying. Of course when I'm DM I ignore encumbrance anyway, so meh. The +4 Str it gives you should help offset the weight, right?

well I would have a 24 Str that would only give me a light load of 233 so I would be always flying at medium load.

[Nettlekid]

well I would have a 24 Str that would only give me a light load of 233 so I would be always flying at medium load.

What's your flight method, Raptoran/Dragonborn wings? Those speeds are pretty low for Epic, so you might want to look into alternate flight options anyway. But I'm going to repeat the suggestion made by someone above that you simply store the Clockwork Armor in a Ring of Arming when you're not using it, and standard action get it out (wearing it, mind you, bypassing that troublesome 10 minute dressing time) when you need it. Alternatively you could make it Called armor (it's such a low price that there's almost no reason not to make all armor and shields Called when you're that high level) and see if you can get the Quick-Escape thing from the Arms and Equipment Guide to get it off as a standard action in exchange for it taking twice as long to put on. Standard action take it off when you don't need it, have a super-brawny friend (or anyone with a mount) carry it when you're flying or otherwise don't need it, and standard action Call it when you need it again. You could even send it home if anyone can cast Teleport Object.

Also, do see if you can't get it made out of Mithral to decrease the weight.

[Talya]

as the campaign is going literally to hell.I think I would go fire immunity though I am not sure I would need to worry about freezing in hell.


Allow me to introduce you to Stygia and Cania.

And if that's not bad enough, there's always the extremely slim chance that the Toronto Maple Leafs will win the Stanley Cup some year. I believe that would make the other 7 circles of hell look just like Stygia and Cania.

[Jgosse]

What's your flight method, Raptoran/Dragonborn wings? Those speeds are pretty low for Epic, so you might want to look into alternate flight options anyway. But I'm going to repeat the suggestion made by someone above that you simply store the Clockwork Armor in a Ring of Arming when you're not using it, and standard action get it out (wearing it, mind you, bypassing that troublesome 10 minute dressing time) when you need it. Alternatively you could make it Called armor (it's such a low price that there's almost no reason not to make all armor and shields Called when you're that high level) and see if you can get the Quick-Escape thing from the Arms and Equipment Guide to get it off as a standard action in exchange for it taking twice as long to put on. Standard action take it off when you don't need it, have a super-brawny friend (or anyone with a mount) carry it when you're flying or otherwise don't need it, and standard action Call it when you need it again. You could even send it home if anyone can cast Teleport Object.

Also, do see if you can't get it made out of Mithral to decrease the weight.

I was looking at phoenix cloak. I may look at the ring I will just beat the first to make a power rangers joke.

[Metahuman1]

Allow me to introduce you to Stygia and Cania.

And if that's not bad enough, there's always the extremely slim chance that the Toronto Maple Leafs will win the Stanley Cup some year. I believe that would make the other 7 circles of hell look just like Stygia and Cania.

I believe that was actually gonna make all the Swine take the winged creature template for the fly speed.

[TuggyNE]

well I would have a 24 Str that would only give me a light load of 233 so I would be always flying at medium load.

Most forms of flight do not allow flying at medium load at all, so this is something of a Problem.

[Morcleon]

well I would have a 24 Str that would only give me a light load of 233 so I would be always flying at medium load.

In this case, you can pick up a Belt of the Wide Earth, which doubles your Str score for the purposes of carrying capacity. It's only 8000 gp, and also allows you to convert a 5th level spell slot to spontaneously cast teleport 2/day.

[Jgosse]

In this case, you can pick up a Belt of the Wide Earth, which doubles your Str score for the purposes of carrying capacity. It's only 8000 gp, and also allows you to convert a 5th level spell slot to spontaneously cast teleport 2/day.

I already have a belt so that is out.

[Mithril Leaf]

I already have a belt so that is out.

Pay a 50% markup to add it to your existing belt.

[Jgosse]

Pay a 50% markup to add it to your existing belt.

yeah that as I recall is added to the more expensive item and that is already 200k

[Mithril Leaf]

yeah that as I recall is added to the more expensive item and that is already 200k

You recall incorrectly. Multiple different abilities|Multiply lower item cost by 1.5|Helm of brilliance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm)

[Jgosse]

You recall incorrectly. Multiple different abilities|Multiply lower item cost by 1.5|Helm of brilliance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm)

well then that makes things easier.