What if we could swap sexes at will?

[Kato]

So, since the "What if we were hermaphrodites?" thread was kind of popular there's a related question I've been asking myself:

What if every person could choose their gender? Yeah, I guess it kid of comes down to the specifics of how this would work but let's imagine the biologically least plausibly case of everyone having a male and a female identity and just being able to transform into the other at any point in time. (Though, we should probably exclude all kind of kinky ideas this scenario might give rise to :smallredface:)

Obviously, this is all based on speculation but I'm just curious what you people think and what you personally would do if you were able to just become (fe)male whenever you want.

[Killer Angel]

It would be decisely more fun. :smallbiggrin:

[sktarq]

the fashion industry would love it.

[Ravens_cry]

I'd love it. :smallbiggrin:

[Pyromancer999]

Kind of depends. What would the opposite sex form look like? Would it be like the person with different....you-know-whats, or like the same person if they had been born the opposite sex? Would various looks for the opposite sex form change(i.e. female to male changes hairstyle to shorter hair, clothes change from male to female with sex-switch)?

Few variables to consider.

I am thinking about this way too logically.:smallbiggrin:

[mistformsquirrl]

So, since the "What if we were hermaphrodites?" thread was kind of popular there's a related question I've been asking myself:

What if every person could choose their gender? Yeah, I guess it kid of comes down to the specifics of how this would work but let's imagine the biologically least plausibly case of everyone having a male and a female identity and just being able to transform into the other at any point in time. (Though, we should probably exclude all kind of kinky ideas this scenario might give rise to :smallredface:)

Obviously, this is all based on speculation but I'm just curious what you people think and what you personally would do if you were able to just become (fe)male whenever you want.

I would love it. I'm gender-fluid so, my identity fluctuates. Some days I feel more masculine, other days, more feminine - probably the latter more than the former, but still, both are definitely present. Being able to shift to match my current feeling would be a great boon.

[Coidzor]

Well, either that'd make us all trans* or no one trans*, I suppose, depending upon how you looked at it.

Alternatively, as a worst case scenario, transgender individuals would be really screwed, since they'd trade having one form of gender dysphoria for another whenever they switched. :smalleek:

[Kato]

I am thinking about this way too logically.:smallbiggrin:
Considering I went with the most convenient/least realistic approach... Yeah :smallbiggrin:
Well, in my head I would really go for the magical transformation of complete looks change, except clothing. (We need to keep it somewhat realistic :smalltongue:)


I would love it. I'm gender-fluid so, my identity fluctuates. Some days I feel more masculine, other days, more feminine - probably the latter more than the former, but still, both are definitely present. Being able to shift to match my current feeling would be a great boon.
I wouldn't call myself sexually fluid but... I don't think I'd have an issue with being born a woman? Or suddenly turning into one? Well, I think I wouldn't like the monthly health problems but otherwise I don't think I'd miss being a man and it seems if not convenient at least interesting to think about it.


Well, either that'd make us all trans* or no one trans*, I suppose, depending upon how you looked at it.

Alternatively, as a worst case scenario, transgender individuals would be really screwed, since they'd trade having one form of gender dysphoria for another whenever they switched. :smalleek:
Well, that's obviously a way to look at it. Though I guess maybe some people would decide to rather stick with one gender while others vary depending on their mood? So I guess there'd still be kind of differences. Possibly.

As for the second point... I don't think I want to touch on that :smalleek:

[Astrella]

Female, stick at female. No reason to go with a body that makes me dysphoric.

[Eulalios]

John Varley was fascinated by this question; many of his novels consider it. Also a pretty good semi-hard sci fi author.

[Ghost Nappa]

I'd have better racial abilities than I do right now.

[Coidzor]

I wouldn't call myself sexually fluid but... I don't think I'd have an issue with being born a woman? Or suddenly turning into one? Well, I think I wouldn't like the monthly health problems but otherwise I don't think I'd miss being a man and it seems if not convenient at least interesting to think about it.

Well, that's obviously a way to look at it. Though I guess maybe some people would decide to rather stick with one gender while others vary depending on their mood? So I guess there'd still be kind of differences. Possibly.

As for the second point... I don't think I want to touch on that :smalleek:

Point, I imagine it would be a not unpopular choice to use the ability to switch sexes to avoid menstruation/ovulation, though once you get into the messy details of tubes and gametes things get, well, messier. I suppose the simplest thing would be either pregnancies would be kept intact during the transformation to le male or they'd go into stasis in whatever L Space the bits that weren't in use go to, allowing pregnant women to take vacations from being pregnant. Without going dark anyway.

I think we'd have to delve into metaphysics or some other body of philosophy to try to properly address it, yeah. Almost assuredly there'd be people who never or almost never made use of the ability just as there'd be people who changed as often as was physically possible.

A bit of a dark place, yeah.


I'd have better racial abilities than I do right now.

Considering we'd actually have something other than a bonus feat and skillpoints which don't translate into the system we're using anyway. XD

[Tengu_temp]

Alternatively, as a worst case scenario, transgender individuals would be really screwed, since they'd trade having one form of gender dysphoria for another whenever they switched. :smalleek:

I'm pretty sure that's not how being trans works.

[Castaras]

I'd try out being a guy for a couple of days. Be interesting. Think the first three things I'd do would be pee, wank, and have sex. :smalltongue:

Would switch back pretty quickly though, I can't imagine being a guy would be something I'd enjoy.

[Coidzor]

I'm pretty sure that's not how being trans works.

Not in this world, no, but we don't exactly have the ability to change both our sex and our gender at a pop, either.

One unpleasant interpretation of having female gender identity + FAAB body and male gender identity + MAAB body and being able to switch both at the same time is that if one were starting off as a male gender identity + FAAB body and one switched both, then one would end up with a female gender identity + MAAB body. Another interpretation is that no such individuals could exist. Or that gender identity itself couldn't exist.

If the changing of gender identity wasn't included, this wouldn't really be something that could be conceptualized though.

[Gnome Alone]

I'd like to take this opportunity to plug Ursula K. Le Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness to anyone interested in this kind of question. One of its major themes is a thought-experiment about what we'd be like if we were usually androgynes but went into a sex-frenzy and randomly morphed into being male or female for a few days every month. Has lots to say about gender identity and so forth.

[Proud Tortoise]

Point, I imagine it would be a not unpopular choice to use the ability to switch sexes to avoid menstruation/ovulation, though once you get into the messy details of tubes and gametes things get, well, messier. I suppose the simplest thing would be either pregnancies would be kept intact during the transformation to le male or they'd go into stasis in whatever L Space the bits that weren't in use go to, allowing pregnant women to take vacations from being pregnant. Without going dark anyway.

In some books with shape-shifters, they are unable to change gender while pregnant.

[Togath]

I would love it. I'm gender-fluid so, my identity fluctuates. Some days I feel more masculine, other days, more feminine - probably the latter more than the former, but still, both are definitely present. Being able to shift to match my current feeling would be a great boon.

I'd find it nice as well:smallsmile:

[druid91]

Meh. I'd never use it. until I did need to use it to sneak past people.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Might try it for sex once or twice, but eh.

[Talya]

Think the first three things I'd do would be pee,

Seriously, this would make bathroom breaks so much easier.






wank, and have sex. :smalltongue:

Would switch back pretty quickly though, I can't imagine being a guy would be something I'd enjoy.

I have a girlfriend I'd love to learn about from a man's perspective.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Seriously, this would make bathroom breaks so much easier.
Not really. You'd have a flood of women turned men all hammering for the guy's room.

[Randomguy]

Not really. You'd have a flood of women turned men all hammering for the guy's room.

Would there even be a guy's room in such a society?

[TrueJordan]

John Varley was fascinated by this question; many of his novels consider it. Also a pretty good semi-hard sci fi author.

I'm a big fan.

Although Mammoth was my favorite, and it had no gender swapping.

[Aedilred]

Would there even be a guy's room in such a society?
Well, it depends.

If this were a change that applied to our existing society going forward, then I imagine there would still be sufficient people who wouldn't make use of the facility (or would do so once as a short experiment then change back permanently) and would prefer to retain the option to use separate-sex toilet facilities.

If we're imagining an alternate universe where this was always the case, then who knows; it's so far outside the experience of anyone currently alive that it's almost impossible to judge. I suspect the existence of sexed toilets is a consideration quite a long way down the list in the list of comparisons.

[EmeraldRose]

Well...would one be able to switch before having whatever unpleasant things are associated with either sex/gender, and have only the benefits of either? Or would it be all or nothing? Would the switch be at will or precipitated by something?

[Skeppio]

I'd be far happier, that's for sure. :smallsigh:

[Lord Raziere]

personally? I'd turn female. then not turn back ever again, unless I need to disguise myself.

societally? well this pretty much makes which sex you are a choice. and while I don't see quite as much sex-based inequality as before since people wouldn't be able to make any assumptions about the opposite sex- they can BE the opposite sex whenever they want- humanity has shown they can be just as hateful and discriminatory based on things you choose.

in older societies, gender would be seen as what part of the reproductive process you participate in, whether your going to be the wife or the husband, and marriages would be some affair where your parents pressure you to change to another gender to marry some other person. or other societies they might look at it from a purely pragmatic viewpoint and change their gender according to the needs of the community without much caring for their personal stake in the matter.

some societies would probably view at as a lifestyle choice, as a sort of signifier of what you do-sure you can go be a warrior, just turn male. when you get back from war, you can turn back to female again. these societies would probably be bewildered by the term "gender equality" since to them, the entire point of gender is that they're not equal and that they are designed for different purposes- since they can choose whichever sex they want, they'd view themselves as already equal and gender as just as options they have instead of a permanent thing that is apart of their identity.

however thats all old-world stuff, what about the modern stuff? I think people would still be sexualized, its just that both sexes would be sexualized so as to advertise to you no matter what form your in, homosexuals might still face prejudice because its possible that the sex-changing humans wouldn't like it on some wrong-headed "if you like the other person so much, why don't you change sex?" reasoning.....

but other than that, its fuzzy. you simply cannot tell how much this change would affect everything. if its from the dawn of time to now, I'd lean more towards everything drastically changing than not though.

[lord pringle]

It seems like it would be really good for anyone who is trans, and pretty fun for most other people. I personally would enjoy being able to become a woman for a bit, and just seeing what it was like.

[Rain Dragon]

Considering the way gender identity works, I think the majority of people would not hop back and forth like bunny rabbits. Even though everyone would have the potential to be both at various points in their life, once the novelty wore off there would still be a lot of people who say 'I am a guy' or 'I am a lady'. As has been mentioned, the way society views gender fluid, gay and bisexual folk would still need to be resolved.

[Proud Tortoise]

And especially good for anyone who is genderfluid.


It seems like it would be really good for anyone who is trans, and pretty fun for most other people. I personally would enjoy being able to become a woman for a bit, and just seeing what it was like.

)(-EY BLU-E BOY
CATC)(
*throws 2x3dent*

[Ravens_cry]

)(-EY BLU-E BOY
CATC)(
*throws 2x3dent*
Most peculiar. Homestuck reference?

[dehro]

I wouldn't mind that.. but only if we get the full Ranma 1/2 package and do a complete switcheroo whenever we change sex.
No point in growing boobs and a vagoo if I'm still stuck with a beard, body hair et all.
that said, I would probably keep it to the bedroom.. I mean..seriously, two wardrobes, make-up and a period? no thanks. I'll be keeping the male form for most practical purposes, just in case.

[Alad]

Most peculiar. Homestuck reference?

Indeed a homestuck reference.



As for the originally stated what if, Hell to the yes. I would like this world very much. :smallbiggrin: Mind you I'm sure us humans would probably work out some way to divide up and discriminate aanyway. but still, I can be female at will? hell yes?

[Ravens_cry]

Indeed a homestuck reference.

Thought so. The only other possibility was likely illicit substances.
***
On topic, even if this was like Narbonic, I'd still be all over this. Been able to feel right about my body would be such a relief, even if it did mean cramps, periods and other such things.

[Kalmageddon]

It would be decisely more fun. :smallbiggrin:

Indeed.
Even if honestly I don't think I would actually do it, the idea might sound interesting but I feel it would be sort of traumatizing, I'm very attached to my body and physical appearence.

[SiuiS]

So, since the "What if we were hermaphrodites?" thread was kind of popular there's a related question I've been asking myself:

What if every person could choose their genderSex? Yeah, I guess it kid of comes down to the specifics of how this would work but let's imagine the biologically least plausibly case of everyone having a male and a female identity and just being able to transform into the other at any point in time. (Though, we should probably exclude all kind of kinky ideas this scenario might give rise to :smallredface:)

Obviously, this is all based on speculation but I'm just curious what you people think and what you personally would do if you were able to just become (fe)male whenever you want.

Fixed an issue in there for you :smallwink:

Snuggling would be better for everyone, I imagine. Is "Androgyne", "Hermaphrodite" and "non-sexed" on this list, or is it just switching between male and female?

[Socratov]

Well, first I'd change into female and play with my new grown boobs all day. All. Day. The the other bits woudl deserve some attention and then I'll consider the cost of having a second complete wardrobe and change back into man quickly becuase well, yeah.. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiweaZQ8g5U) (no seriously, I don't wear them often, but every time I do, I promise myself I need to wear them more because they are just that awesome).

Oh, and by the way I guess this changing sexes thing also counts for bodystructure and appreance. Else you'd just have a male bodystructure with some bits changed out, or a womans body with some bits swapped. (I'm thinking of bonestructure, muscular and bodyfat structure, etc.)

[Kato]

Fixed an issue in there for you :smallwink:

Snuggling would be better for everyone, I imagine. Is "Androgyne", "Hermaphrodite" and "non-sexed" on this list, or is it just switching between male and female?
Ah, I try to keep using the proper terms but I must have slipped there, sorry.

Well, I was originally considering only the "usual types". (I'm not quite sure what would even qualify as an androgyne sex to be honest.) But I guess if we are using magic powers we might as well make all available. (Even though the hermaphrodite option to me always seems to be more some weird fetish than something people would actually aim to be or date (no offense to anyone who this applies to, of course. I just... never really encountered it outside of pretty weird stories))


Well, first I'd change into female and play with my new grown boobs all day. All. Day.
Not that I disagree but maybe your female self would be very flat chested. :smalltongue: Not that there's anything bad about it but I guess it wouldn't be much of a new sensation then. :smallwink:


Oh, and by the way I guess this changing sexes thing also counts for bodystructure and appreance. Else you'd just have a male bodystructure with some bits changed out, or a womans body with some bits swapped. (I'm thinking of bonestructure, muscular and bodyfat structure, etc.)
Yeah, the idea basically is... well, your Y chromosome is now an X chromosome (or vice versa) And your body changes accordingly. (All other problems like how your body structure is obviously dependent on your life style to a large extent are solved by magic, again)

tangent: I guess this could actually work somewhat biologically if we'd inherit both sexual chromosomes from our father and depending on the current sex one would be active and the other not. Of course then the gender swapping humans would need three sex defining chromosomes (one from the mother's side and two from the father's which ca be turned on and off. And then a "male" gender swapper would pass on his Y and one of the X chromosomes to his children... On the other hand, there is little reason to argue why one X can be turned on and off and the other not, so maybe you'd have three possible Identities X1/X2, X1/Y and X2/Y... I should not try to figure out he biology of these people.

[SiuiS]

It really wouldn't change much biologically if you just switched chromosomes, though. Once the base structure is there, it's there.

And I presume androgyne and 'no sex' would be the same, myself, but who knows?

And Socratov, I hate to say this, but you'd be disappointed. If your breast area isn't an erogenous zone now, it wouldn't be when you switched; it's still just your skin and you still lack the inclination to consider it a special area if it's not already.

Also, guy clothes tend to fit girls with ease, so no wardrobe issue unless you make one. :smallwink:

[Asta Kask]

There are fish who do this. The largest, dominant fish is of one sex (depending on species, this can be male or female) and when they die the largest of the remaining school take their place.

[Alad]

And Socratov, I hate to say this, but you'd be disappointed. If your breast area isn't an erogenous zone now, it wouldn't be when you switched; it's still just your skin and you still lack the inclination to consider it a special area if it's not already.


Really? I always naively assumed that was one of the places that was fairly different based on sex. eh, you learn something every day.

[Lentrax]

At will? Yeah. I'd go for that. A couple of years ago, I would have agreed with my trans* friends here and said I would switch and never go back.

But after ten years since choosing to remain a male, I don't think I could stay a woman forever. There are some things that I have come to enjoy about being male.

But as far as the philosophies behind it, would there even be gender discrimination?

Example:

"Sorry, ma'am. But you need to be a man to join the army and go fight the invaders."

Lady changes into man. Goes into army. What stops him from changing back after getting in? Would it even matter? I for one don't think so.

Would we still need gender identities? I don't think so. We would be one species.

But, and here is a question for you. Would this new species have a new case of dysphoria? The people who wish that they could not change at all? To remain one gender, all the time?

Because dysphoria doesn't discriminate....

Edit:

Really? I always naively assumed that was one of the places that was fairly different based on sex. eh, you learn something every day.

Nope. If you're sensitive and like playing there before, you'll like playing there after. If you don't, well. You may try it anyway, just for the sensation, but odds are it won't do anything for you.

[Alad]

But as far as the philosophies behind it, would there even be gender discrimination?

Example:

"Sorry, ma'am. But you need to be a man to join the army and go fight the invaders."

Lady changes into man. Goes into army. What stops him from changing back after getting in? Would it even matter? I for one don't think so.


But, and here is a question for you. Would this new species have a new case of dysphoria? The people who wish that they could not change at all? To remain one gender, all the time?

Because dysphoria doesn't discriminate....

See, initially I went "wooh no discrimination", then my misanthropy kicked in and i realized that humans would totally discriminate and exclude based on which sex you preferred to be ect ect
"BECOMING FEMALE IS A SIN FOR ALL OTHER THAN PROCREATION"
ect. ect. or maybe I just have a grim world view.




Nope. If you're sensitive and like playing there before, you'll like playing there after. If you don't, well. You may try it anyway, just for the sensation, but odds are it won't do anything for you.
The more you know. :smallbiggrin:

[SiuiS]

Really? I always naively assumed that was one of the places that was fairly different based on sex. eh, you learn something every day.

Hormones and stuff change sensitivity, but not cerebral reaction. It would go from being weird to being weird and also tickling, but there is no programmed "this is arbitrarily sexy", which I surmise from the number of women who don't really have that erogenous zone and just sort of let their boyfriends play with them because the boys want to and the girls don't care one way or the other.

Really, it's one of those cultural differences that arise from considering women a different race or a subspecies; if you stop to think about it, it's saying that all women have a different sense of touch than all men. Which is vaguely true in the skin thickness/sensitivity/hormone sense, but not enough that they have sensations the menfolk can barely contemplate or fathom.


An alternate interpretation is that more men have erogenous boobs than they are given credit for though. XD

And, yeah. Would totally still have prejudice, in fact, worse prejudice.
All likelihood, females would still be for breeding, because why give up being physically stronger in order to have curves?
More humorously, we'd all be Wyfweres! A race of women who assume the Andro– or "war form" when angered, and are probably vulnerable to silver. Or chocolate. Or diamonds. Or whatever you want to bribe/calm is down with :smallbiggrin:

[Lentrax]

Hmm. It is hard to say for certain. After all, the entire society would have been built up around that one fact that we can be whatever we want. Who are we to say what the norm would be? And it could even come down t the ratio of men to women would be the same.

It's hard to say when we can't choose but to view this from the outside with eyes trained by our experiences and prejudices.

[Asta Kask]

It depends a lot on whether this has been something that has been around since days of yore, or whether it's something that suddenly turned up recently.

[Kato]

It really wouldn't change much biologically if you just switched chromosomes, though. Once the base structure is there, it's there.
That's where the magic comes in :smallbiggrin:


And Socratov, I hate to say this, but you'd be disappointed. If your breast area isn't an erogenous zone now, it wouldn't be when you switched; it's still just your skin and you still lack the inclination to consider it a special area if it's not already.


Hormones and stuff change sensitivity, but not cerebral reaction. It would go from being weird to being weird and also tickling, but there is no programmed "this is arbitrarily sexy", which I surmise from the number of women who don't really have that erogenous zone and just sort of let their boyfriends play with them because the boys want to and the girls don't care one way or the other.

Really, it's one of those cultural differences that arise from considering women a different race or a subspecies; if you stop to think about it, it's saying that all women have a different sense of touch than all men. Which is vaguely true in the skin thickness/sensitivity/hormone sense, but not enough that they have sensations the menfolk can barely contemplate or fathom.


An alternate interpretation is that more men have erogenous boobs than they are given credit for though. XD
While I guess it makes sense I'd assume Socratov's (male) mind set would just enjoy the feeling of shapely, squishy, warm breasts in his hand, no matter how his breasts might feel (unless he in fact has a sensible area there)
Though, couldn't you make the argument that proper fondling would be kind of like a massage? Well, there aren't really prominent muscles in breasts, so I guess that's kind of a moot point as well. Maybe some women just enjoy it because it is a (kind of weird) way for their SO to admire their bodies. Or it really is mostly a male fantasy and I'm just trying to justify male's weird interests :smalltongue:



But, and here is a question for you. Would this new species have a new case of dysphoria? The people who wish that they could not change at all? To remain one gender, all the time?

Well, I guess you could always decide to not change and we can't say for sure whether there would develop social rules forcing you to change against your will on certain occasions. But then, people will always find reasons to be unhappy. Or make others. I guess the human mind can easily come up with ways to ruin the skill.


And, yeah. Would totally still have prejudice, in fact, worse prejudice.
All likelihood, females would still be for breeding, because why give up being physically stronger in order to have curves?
More humorously, we'd all be Wyfweres! A race of women who assume the Andro– or "war form" when angered, and are probably vulnerable to silver. Or chocolate. Or diamonds. Or whatever you want to bribe/calm is down with :smallbiggrin:
Having curves is cool? I guess it - again - is far fetched to speculate on sexual preference in such a species but if you just find the female form much more attractive (on yourself (and others)) why give it up? For a mediocre increase in strength and height? If you want to reach the top shelf just switch if necessary or if your groceries are too heavy. (Well, I guess you'd be required to wear uni-sex clothing at least)

I think I'd go for chocolate... least expensive and at least they are tasty. Silver and diamonds are pretty useless :smalltongue:

[SiuiS]

Hmm. It is hard to say for certain. After all, the entire society would have been built up around that one fact that we can be whatever we want. Who are we to say what the norm would be? And it could even come down t the ratio of men to women would be the same.

It's hard to say when we can't choose but to view this from the outside with eyes trained by our experiences and prejudices.

Well, if everyone had the capacity to shift form (even between male and female) at will, sexual dimorphism exists. On a person who does X arbitrary exercise units, the male form will be proportionally stronger for the same regimen I am told. So a bias would definitely form; the only question is whether it's a society of men who can girlshift, women who can boyshift, or if it depends on culture.

I'm still going to vote for my society of lesbian werewolves, though, and no amount of logic or reason is going to stop me. u.u

[Asta Kask]

An alternate interpretation is that more men have erogenous boobs than they are given credit for though. XD

I think this is true, although I have little data.


All likelihood, females would still be for breeding, because why give up being physically stronger in order to have curves?

A status thing? I'm so well-trained I can be female and still be physically strong. Also, there are other advantages to being female - living longer, for instance.

[Eldariel]

Would we still need gender identities? I don't think so. We would be one species.

I think this really begs the question of do we need gender identities as it stands? It is already possible for people to have gender identities that have nothing to do with their biology, and gender identities are really treated as social constructs. I also understand, there exist people who don't really identify one way or another (people with varieties of autism or asperger's apparently lack a sense of self, much less a sense of gender, for instance). So, hypothetically, would it not be possible for gender identity to not exist as a thing if everyone were like the people who lack gender identity?

Because if a lack of gender as a societal construct were possible with the current physical spectrum of sexes, I surmise it would be the same if everyone were all sexes. That said, people can already have gender identities that do not mirror their physiology. Provided we still had some sorts of concepts for the various sexes, having the ability to switch gender wouldn't probably alter our gender identities meaningfully; according to what I've read on the subject, a gender identity is after all something we form when we're very young and something that is influenced by both, biology and society.

So if we didn't constantly change sex as babies (would we? I suppose it depends on how exactly this thought exercise functions), we'd still have the same biological stimuli on that front; social stimuli would depend on how the people raising us would act I suppose, particularly which sexes they'd opt to use for how long.


A status thing? I'm so well-trained I can be female and still be physically strong. Also, there are other advantages to being female - living longer, for instance.

It would be interesting to see how different your thought processes would be with each sex, assuming the transformation extends to brain too. It could be very convenient to be able to switch between having more streamlined, focused thinking or more lateral, intuitive basis (of course, I fully expect it wouldn't be from an extreme to another but rather a slight nudge in the other direction; still most likely quite useful for solving various intellectual questions)

[Asta Kask]

Would we still need gender identities? I don't think so. We would be one species.

Need? For what purpose?

We can now switch hair color at will, yet there are still stereotypes about different hair colors.

[Hyena]

I would jump at the opportuniy to escape conscription.

[Socratov]

And Socratov, I hate to say this, but you'd be disappointed. If your breast area isn't an erogenous zone now, it wouldn't be when you switched; it's still just your skin and you still lack the inclination to consider it a special area if it's not already.

Also, guy clothes tend to fit girls with ease, so no wardrobe issue unless you make one. :smallwink:


That's where the magic comes in :smallbiggrin:




While I guess it makes sense I'd assume Socratov's (male) mind set would just enjoy the feeling of shapely, squishy, warm breasts in his hand, no matter how his breasts might feel (unless he in fact has a sensible area there)
Though, couldn't you make the argument that proper fondling would be kind of like a massage? Well, there aren't really prominent muscles in breasts, so I guess that's kind of a moot point as well. Maybe some women just enjoy it because it is a (kind of weird) way for their SO to admire their bodies. Or it really is mostly a male fantasy and I'm just trying to justify male's weird interests :smalltongue:



Exactly. It's no secret that men think that breasts have this magical power of enslaving (nearly) any heterosexual male. Call me weird, but yeah, they are kind of mesmerising to me...

On changing: well, that's where the method of changing kicks in and how much control we have over our transformation. One way would be to exchange the bits and pieces, another to actually alter the bone structure and body mass distribution. Women have relative to men less muscle and more fat, resulting in a different body type. So the method of changing would matter greatly in these matters.

On the topic of wardrobe: I think that adding breasts to wear in my suits might make the overall look weird (think about alignment of buttons, creases and folds, depending on body type the waistline, etc.). then again, a nice pari of jeans and a shirt shouldn't be too troublesome... Hell I've often seen that my shirts look better on my (ex)girlfriends then on me. :smallamused:

[Asta Kask]

Exactly. It's no secret that men think that breasts have this magical power of enslaving (nearly) any heterosexual male. Call me weird, but yeah, they are kind of mesmerising to me...

Ditto. In fact, one of the great thing about thermodynamics and the kinetic theory of heat is that boobs are constantly jiggling, if only slightly. :smallwink:

[Socratov]

Ditto. In fact, one of the great thing about thermodynamics and the kinetic theory of heat is that boobs are constantly jiggling, if only slightly. :smallwink:

May I put this into my collection of quotes I really like? this is bloody brilliant!

[Eldariel]

Nope. If you're sensitive and like playing there before, you'll like playing there after. If you don't, well. You may try it anyway, just for the sensation, but odds are it won't do anything for you.

This might be about many males simply not having experience with someone playing with their nipples/breasts or trying it themselves. I know I didn't for my first ~15 years but after sufficient sexual experience I can say I certainly react to stimulating of my nipples, and by extension the area around them (though the degree depends on the skill of the other participant, of course; done alone it does provide a degree of pleasure, but not all that much).

I would wager a guess many of the men simply haven't had a sexual partner with the know-how or one who'd think to play with a man's nipples. If I am correct, it's fully possible that the nipples of many of the men here are sensitive comparatively to a woman's, but the people just aren't aware of it (though I do believe male psyche is also less receptive to certain types of stimuli, but don't quote me on that one).


Exactly. It's no secret that men think that breasts have this magical power of enslaving (nearly) any heterosexual male. Call me weird, but yeah, they are kind of mesmerising to me...

I believe a large part of that is cultural too; western culture seems to focus on womens' cleavage in particular quite a bit, to the exclusion of other areas considered erotic in many other cultures (the neck in Japan, for instance).

[Kato]

I would wager a guess many of the men simply haven't had a sexual partner with the know-how or one who'd think to play with a man's nipples. If I am correct, it's fully possible that the nipples of many of the men here are sensitive comparatively to a woman's, but the people just aren't aware of it (though I do believe male psyche is also less receptive to certain types of stimuli, but don't quote me on that one).


Huh? I'd think nipples are generally if not universally a erogenous zone. The discussion was more concerned with the breast rest(!) of the breast area, I think. (Obviously, tell me if I'm wrong)

[Asta Kask]

May I put this into my collection of quotes I really like? this is bloody brilliant!

Sure. Go ahead.

[Kajhera]

I would certainly experiment with having a swapped body, and at least try to use it to get around menstruation.

Might wind up spending a lot of time there. Boyfriend would do the same and reverse. How much would likely depend on how well or poorly androgens and estrogens interacted with our mental health, and how attached we were to the genders everyone currently knows us as.

If androgyne or hermaphrodite's an option certainly try that out too. Being able to kick sex hormones to the curve without negatively impacting health, or gaining the benefits of both and a body type that appeals to me? Yes, this certainly calls for experimentation.

I don't know how often I'd change once I'd figured out what I was most comfortable in. Suspect my gender identity and preferred bodies would be somewhat in conflict, so potentially often.

[Eldariel]

Huh? I'd think nipples are generally if not universally a erogenous zone. The discussion was more concerned with the breast rest(!) of the breast area, I think. (Obviously, tell me if I'm wrong)

Well, my point was, if your nipples are an erogenous zone then the surrounding area should, as a consequence, also be susceptible to stimulation. Like, female breasts have the nerves more split up (so as to be more responsive to stimulation in a larger area) and they're also more sensitive due to hormones, but the same should work on basically all men as well, just not quite as well. I expect most men haven't had the breast aside from the nipple stimulated by a partner though, so they would be unaware of this.

[dehro]

I like how this has turned rapidly into a boobies appreciation thread.

[Coidzor]

And especially good for anyone who is genderfluid.



)(-EY BLU-E BOY
CATC)(
*throws 2x3dent*

Me, I'm more wondering whether the necessary changes to the universe would preclude genderfluid or intersexed people from existing as it's sorta Binary World as presented in the OP. Or at least as I understood it.



Out of Cheese Error, please reset universe.


Fixed an issue in there for you :smallwink:

I read it as changing both simultaneously from his wording myself.


It really wouldn't change much biologically if you just switched chromosomes, though. Once the base structure is there, it's there.

And I presume androgyne and 'no sex' would be the same, myself, but who knows?

And Socratov, I hate to say this, but you'd be disappointed. If your breast area isn't an erogenous zone now, it wouldn't be when you switched; it's still just your skin and you still lack the inclination to consider it a special area if it's not already.

It couldn't just be changing chromosomes anyway, since you also have to change labia to scrotums or vice versa, add or subtract fallopian tubes/uterii/vesicular glands/prostates, all that other messy tubing for another set of messy tubing.

Androgyne has never seemed to me to be synonymous with neuter quite to that extreme level of having no sex characteristics. Usually seems to mean a blend. :smallconfused:

From what I'm understanding of the change, it would be, based upon the OP, that, say when a cis man changes into a woman, he's getting a cis woman's body and a cis woman's gender identity and becomes a she for all intents and purposes. So having all of those nerve endings reconfigured would seem to be part of the package. Otherwise the entire scenario fails because one wouldn't have the nerve endings to go along with the ****oris/penis or the gametes and ability to produce/store said gametes.

Hmm. Depending upon whether it's a change or if the gametes get stored in L Space, I suppose it might help eliminate the discrepancy between male and female when it comes to gamete production/storage/aging.

Edit: Though this whole "No, if you "started out" as a MAAB person, you'll never have sensitive breasts" discussion seems like it's far too dependent upon the limited means of bodily reconstruction available currently to us in real life for transitioning. :smallconfused:

This is magical sex and gender changing, why on earth would it be limited in such a curiously specific way? :smalleek:

I mean, for one thing, it's not said that sex and gender changing are only introduced after puberty or after sexual maturity, so even if you're thinking that nerves are set at those points...


Would we still need gender identities? I don't think so. We would be one species.

But, and here is a question for you. Would this new species have a new case of dysphoria? The people who wish that they could not change at all? To remain one gender, all the time?

WAT :smallconfused:

So far I haven't seen anything about the change being outside of their control, so I'd presume that particular possibility would be a non-issue as the hypothetical scenario stands.

[Asta Kask]

I like how this has turned rapidly into a boobies appreciation thread.

Naked boobies:

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5426388_700b.jpg

[Frozen_Feet]

I know I'd become female for long enough to have kids, so I can fulfill my dream of becoming a bitter, man-hating single mother.

After that, eh, it depends. The less exaggerated the change is, the less reason there is to change forms. By which I mean: if my bone structure, height, weight and musculature are going to change closer towards the average woman each time, I'd probably stay as a male expect for those occasions where I feel like dressing in pretty clothes. If my height, weight and muscles stay largely the same between forms, I'd probably stick to male for the most time to avoid periods.

[Alad]

Really, it's one of those cultural differences that arise from considering women a different race or a subspecies; if you stop to think about it, it's saying that all women have a different sense of touch than all men. Which is vaguely true in the skin thickness/sensitivity/hormone sense, but not enough that they have sensations the menfolk can barely contemplate or fathom.


An alternate interpretation is that more men have erogenous boobs than they are given credit for though. XD
Hey now, I wasn't suggesting a completely different sense of touch. merely different distributions of sensitivity.
(besides, I'm of the opinion that everyone probably perceives things slightly differently doesn't make them a different species :smalltongue: )
As for sensations that men can barely fathom... hrm. Something about densities of nerve endings in some areas makes me wonder. but ahh well, that's a tangential discussion entirely



More humorously, we'd all be Wyfweres! A race of women who assume the Andro– or "war form" when angered, and are probably vulnerable to silver. Or chocolate. Or diamonds. Or whatever you want to bribe/calm is down with :smallbiggrin:

That... that sounds like a cool world. I would like this world I think.
Also, that is a point. appearing as male would probably be considered a subtle form of aggression


Hmm. It is hard to say for certain. After all, the entire society would have been built up around that one fact that we can be whatever we want. Who are we to say what the norm would be? And it could even come down t the ratio of men to women would be the same.

It's hard to say when we can't choose but to view this from the outside with eyes trained by our experiences and prejudices.

I dont mean to be dark and cynical but human society seems to build itself around restricting choice and freedoms quite alot. I can easily see sexism not being a thing, but sadly I think there would be some kind of exclusionary structure in its place. maybe thats just me being a pessimist



While I guess it makes sense I'd assume Socratov's (male) mind set would just enjoy the feeling of shapely, squishy, warm breasts in his hand, no matter how his breasts might feel (unless he in fact has a sensible area there)
Though, couldn't you make the argument that proper fondling would be kind of like a massage? Well, there aren't really prominent muscles in breasts, so I guess that's kind of a moot point as well. Maybe some women just enjoy it because it is a (kind of weird) way for their SO to admire their bodies. Or it really is mostly a male fantasy and I'm just trying to justify male's weird interests :smalltongue:


Oh come on, breasts are great! Its not just guys that think this! Although my girlfriend insists on ruining it for me by pointing out that they are impractical and hindering at times *shakes fist* so unfair forcing me to deal with reality :smalltongue:
Mindset might well be thoroughly different. and I'd imagine if he'd spent his whole life having breasts the fascination might well have worn off.


Well I'd be quite happy being female in this magical world, or I suppose alternatively if such was attainable. no gender, being free from all the reproduction hormones and such things in day to day life sounds rather nice although I'd probably alternate with female. That said, I'd probably definitely pull the dodging periods trick that has been mentioned a few times. :smalleek: I have no desire to find out how bad it is.

As for erogenous zones, damned if I know. I seem to be ticklish pretty much everywhere. much to my girlfriends amusement, not so much to mine. :smallyuk: (How am I supposed to be a tall grumpy late-teen if you make me devolve into giggling.)

[Zorg]

Edit: Though this whole "No, if you "started out" as a MAAB person, you'll never have sensitive breasts" discussion seems like it's far too dependent upon the limited means of bodily reconstruction available currently to us in real life for transitioning. :smallconfused:

I can say with absolute certainty it's not necessarily true for everyone :smallredface:

[warty goblin]

Exactly. It's no secret that men think that breasts have this magical power of enslaving (nearly) any heterosexual male. Call me weird, but yeah, they are kind of mesmerising to me...
You know, I've never really understood this. I mean they're very nice, don't get me wrong, but not exactly a brain-shut-off switch, and I've always been faintly insulted by the suggestion that they should be for me. I'm not quite that pathetic, thanks. Maybe that's just me though

On topic, at first I thought having two wardrobes would be a pain. But on the other hand, I live in the midwest, where a person already needs two wardrobes to deal with the bit where it's Siberia for three months of the year, and a greenhouse over the summer.

This suggests an obvious solution: spend summers female. Not only would that allow me to spend some time in a body with a decent set of hips instead of the disappointingly flat set I've got, but I'd look good in dresses. Spending the summer lounging around in sundresses, sunglasses and one of those floppy sunhats sounds lovely. Winters though? Yeah, I like being large and having facial hair then. Plus I don't want to replace my carefully curated selection of winter coats.

[Alad]

Breasts are nice, breasts do not switch your brain off. I suspect that socratov was being tongue in cheek though do feel free to correct me.

[SiuiS]

A status thing? I'm so well-trained I can be female and still be physically strong. Also, there are other advantages to being female - living longer, for instance.

Yeah. I figure society would be a bunch of lesbian werewolves* because the smaller, social form of the creature requires fewer calories to sustain and can apparently maintain fitness through extended running with kilogram-weights.


I think this really begs the question of do we need gender identities as it stands?

It seems that gender identity is an emergent property of brain chemistry, not of socialization. The symptoms of "male" or "female" can be socially conditioned, but the existence of "male" or "female" are not.


This might be about many males simply not having experience with someone playing with their nipples/breasts or trying it themselves.

Basically. That's my point; if they are not already fun spots, they won't be fun just because. You may still enjoy having breasts in your hands, but then, a guy can get that through obesity too, which is basically what would be happening here. :smalltongue:
But yes. My end reversal was "or maybe guys just don't try hard enough" etc.


I believe a large part of that is cultural too; western culture seems to focus on womens' cleavage in particular quite a bit, to the exclusion of other areas considered erotic in many other cultures (the neck in Japan, for instance).

Depends on the western culture in question, really. And, I'm not familiar with what you're speaking of? Bust maybe, but I can't think of any


Oh. Nevermind.


I like how this has turned rapidly into a boobies appreciation thread.

Well, yeah. "What if guys could become hot chicks?" Was sort of the premise, wasn't it? :smallwink:


Me, I'm more wondering whether the necessary changes to the universe would preclude genderfluid or intersexed people from existing as it's sorta Binary World as presented in the OP. Or at least as I understood it.

If presented that way, maybe. It's possible that the necessary internal tensions for gender fluid to arise as a concept wouldn't happen for the same reason gender fluid women tend to be dismissed as normal women who sometimes dress with less frills?

Alternately, gender fluidity would be the norm as you say, and us weird static gender folks would be weird.



Androgyne has never seemed to me to be synonymous with neuter quite to that extreme level of having no sex characteristics. Usually seems to mean a blend. :smallconfused:

Sex parts, not characteristics. An androgyne would by definition have both characteristics, but as a sex separate from true hermaphrodite would probably have neither instead of both as far as strictly gonads went.



From what I'm understanding of the change, it would be, based upon the OP, that, say when a cis man changes into a woman, he's getting a cis woman's body and a cis woman's gender identity and becomes a she for all intents and purposes. So having all of those nerve endings reconfigured would seem to be part of the package. Otherwise the entire scenario fails because one wouldn't have the nerve endings to go along with the ****oris/penis or the gametes and ability to produce/store said gametes.

Yes, but there is not sufficient difference between default male and female nervous tissue, even with hormonal differences, to suddenly make one's nipples a sexy place when they weren't before. As an analogue, if you're normally a woman, and being touched on the biceps does not turn you on, it won't start to just because you turn male.



Edit: Though this whole "No, if you "started out" as a MAAB person, you'll never have sensitive breasts" discussion seems like it's far too dependent upon the limited means of bodily reconstruction available currently to us in real life for transitioning. :smallconfused:

This is magical sex and gender changing, why on earth would it be limited in such a curiously specific way? :smalleek:


You're misreading entirely. You're still assuming boobs equals erogenous on women for no raisin.


Naked boobies:

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5426388_700b.jpg

The right one is bigger, but the left has a less pleasing shape despite being more perky.


I can say with absolute certainty it's not necessarily true for everyone :smallredface:

I don't think it's true for anyone, really. I just think modern media has overplayed the value such that it's considered objective rather then subjective.

I'm quickly running out of ways to allude to what I meant without an infraction :s


You know, I've never really understood this. I mean they're very nice, don't get me wrong, but not exactly a brain-shut-off switch, and I've always been faintly insulted by the suggestion that they should be for me. I'm not quite that pathetic, thanks. Maybe that's just me though

Word.


On topic, at first I thought having two wardrobes would be a pain. But on the other hand, I live in the midwest, where a person already needs two wardrobes to deal with the bit where it's Siberia for three months of the year, and a greenhouse over the summer.

This suggests an obvious solution: spend summers female. Not only would that allow me to spend some time in a body with a decent set of hips instead of the disappointingly flat set I've got, but I'd look good in dresses. Spending the summer lounging around in sundresses, sunglasses and one of those floppy sunhats sounds lovely. Winters though? Yeah, I like being large and having facial hair then. Plus I don't want to replace my carefully curated selection of winter coats.

Yeah. I love sundresses~

Man. Could you imagine? You square off with the Sheila across the bar, trading angry looks over comments about or something, and then she slams a shot and stalks over to you, packing on a few kilos, a foot of width, and a neck beard flaring like a lizard's frills as [s]herhis anger mounts?

It's like a werewolf game. It's bloody hilarious!

[Asta Kask]

You're misreading entirely. You're still assuming boobs equals erogenous on women for no raisin.

Surely not no reason. Breasts are erogenous in many women (70% according to this (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=567357) completely unscientific study).

[warty goblin]

You're misreading entirely. You're still assuming boobs equals erogenous on women for no raisin.

So, just to be clear here, dried grapes increase nipple sensitivity? :smalltongue:




The right one is bigger, but the left has a less pleasing shape despite being more perky.

I've always maintained it's a matter of personality, not size.


Word.
Although, just to clear, I'm still reasonably pathetic.


Yeah. I love sundresses~
They've always seemed the ideal garment for hot weather to me; really that they're also startlingly attractive is just a bonus. Tragically I lack the proper gender, and the proper figure, for them to work on me.


Man. Could you imagine? You square off with the Sheila across the bar, trading angry looks over comments about or something, and then she slams a shot and stalks over to you, packing on a few kilos, a foot of width, and a neck beard flaring like a lizard's frills as [s]herhis anger mounts?

It's like a werewolf game. It's bloody hilarious!
This would really complicate some things though. I mean it's perfectly acceptable for dudes to hit each other as a sign of affection, which generally isn't how it's interpreted across gender lines. You'd need an entirely different set of responses for each person based on how they were appearing today.

[OverdrivePrime]

Would this be like a Ranma 1/2 style change (http://youtu.be/dH5K-91wGA0?t=1m46s)? Poof - I'm suddenly 6 inches shorter and 70 pounds lighter? I can see that being useful when I'm trying to be stealthy. I can't imagine my wife would be much of a fan though.

Or would we be limited by conservation of mass? If so, I'd just morph into a 6'-4", 220 pound lady with slightly redistributed body fat and a bad haircut (business cut ≠ pixie cut). I can't see many advantages to that. Aside from the requisite 'trying out' experience of jumping on trampolines, I'd probably keep myself locked in as my socially more advantageous 'tall white male' body type.

[Ravens_cry]

Breasts are a bit of a toss up for me if it's Narbonic (http://www.webcomicsnation.com/shaenongarrity/narbonic_plus/series.php?view=archive&chapter=29733) rather than Ranma 1/2. Some of my female family is pretty flat, though not all, so, who knows. I'd be pretty curvy as a woman, with a generous tush, I am fairly certain at least, given that my body is already pretty pair shaped for a genetic male. I'd be short in all likelihood, given I am short for a male.
Anyhow, I'd give a lot to find out.

[SiuiS]

Surely not no reason. Breasts are erogenous in many women (70% according to this (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=567357) completely unscientific study).

You're making an incomplete statement that gives an artificial sense in vacuum. Yes, nipples can be erogenous. That's not a Female thing at all. It's a nipple thing. Because women are told they are supposed to like it and men are discouraged from even recognizing that they have nipples, however, you get a large bias in Assumption.

The moral is not that women don't like it so much as; try it now as a male, you'll get a pretty solid indicator of whether you'd like it, but don't expect magic change of something not actually sexually dimorphic.


So, just to be clear here, dried grapes increase nipple sensitivity? :smalltongue:


By degrees! The juice sucked out of a grape, leaving it dry, can be fermented and used to increase erogenous zones and reduce inhibition :smalltongue:





This would really complicate some things though. I mean it's perfectly acceptable for dudes to hit each other as a sign of affection, which generally isn't how it's interpreted across gender lines. You'd need an entirely different set of responses for each person based on how they were appearing today.

Yeah, just like if one werewolf is human form or puppy dog form and the other goes full on krinos war form and punts the first? That's a party foul.


werewolves.


Would this be like a Ranma 1/2 style change (http://youtu.be/dH5K-91wGA0?t=1m46s)? Poof - I'm suddenly 6 inches shorter and 70 pounds lighter? I can see that being useful when I'm trying to be stealthy. I can't imagine my wife would be much of a fan though.

Or would we be limited by conservation of mass? If so, I'd just morph into a 6'-4", 220 pound lady with slightly redistributed body fat and a bad haircut (business cut ≠ pixie cut). I can't see many advantages to that. Aside from the requisite 'trying out' experience of jumping on trampolines, I'd probably keep myself locked in as my socially more advantageous 'tall white male' body type.

I'm assuming "exact same history as if you were biologically the other sex", sort of like there are two bodies with nigh-identical genetics (same parents and history, etc.) but one mind, that switches between them.

So if you're healthy, athletic, and a mixed martial artist your chick body would be a healthy athletic mixed martial artist chick body, but could still have potentially massive discrepancies because of your family traits.

[Asta Kask]

You're making an incomplete statement that gives an artificial sense in vacuum. Yes, nipples can be erogenous. That's not a Female thing at all. It's a nipple thing. Because women are told they are supposed to like it and men are discouraged from even recognizing that they have nipples, however, you get a large bias in Assumption.

The moral is not that women don't like it so much as; try it now as a male, you'll get a pretty solid indicator of whether you'd like it, but don't expect magic change of something not actually sexually dimorphic.

That's not what you said though. But yes, I agree with Arnold - my nipples are very sensitive. You may not want to know that, but now you do.

[Socratov]

Breasts are nice, breasts do not switch your brain off. I suspect that socratov was being tongue in cheek though do feel free to correct me.
Well, it was a bit of hyperbole, just a bit though :smallbiggrin:

That's not what you said though. But yes, I agree with Arnold - my nipples are very sensitive. You may not want to know that, but now you do.

I always find my hair (as in the stuff on my head) erogenous. Going to the barber is a very relaxing experience for me... Not that you needed to know, but now you do :smallwink:

[SiuiS]

Well, it was a bit of hyperbole, just a bit though :smallbiggrin:


I always find my hair (as in the stuff on my head) erogenous. Going to the barber is a very relaxing experience for me... Not that you needed to know, but now you do :smallwink:

Oh goodness yes.


That's not what you said though. But yes, I agree with Arnold - my nipples are very sensitive. You may not want to know that, but now you do.

:smallconfused:



And Socratov, I hate to say this, but you'd be disappointed. If your breast area isn't an erogenous zone now, it wouldn't be when you switched; it's still just your skin and you still lack the inclination to consider it a special area if it's not already.



An alternate interpretation is that more men have erogenous boobs than they are given credit for though.



Yes, but there is not sufficient difference between default male and female nervous tissue, even with hormonal differences, to suddenly make one's nipples a sexy place when they weren't before. As an analogue, if you're normally a woman, and being touched on the biceps does not turn you on, it won't start to just because you turn male.
[...]
You're misreading entirely. You're still assuming boobs equals erogenous on women for no raisin.
[...]

[AtlanteanTroll]

I wonder how this would work with straight couples, assuming people still adhered to a more rigid binary and didn't really swap their sex a whole lot. Girlfriend turns in to a man for a few days. Boyfriend can't stand dating girlfriend while they are a man, because they don't like men. ?????

Also, how would birth certificates work, would sex at birth, which I assume would still be the primary sex, even be notified? If you were swapped, would you revert to your SAB when you die?

[warty goblin]

I wonder how this would work with straight couples, assuming people still adhered to a more rigid binary and didn't really swap their sex a whole lot. Girlfriend turns in to a man for a few days. Boyfriend can't stand dating girlfriend while they are a man, because they don't like men. ?????

Sounds like a golden opportunity to learn some new skills.

The real benefit of being able to switch though is that a substantial fraction of people would have sexual experience with both sets of equipment, which means they have personal knowledge of what works. Sex just got so much better for everybody.


Also, how would birth certificates work, would sex at birth, which I assume would still be the primary sex, even be notified? If you were swapped, would you revert to your SAB when you die?
I'd figure you'd settle on a 'primary' sex later in life, assuming a person really even bothered to do that.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Sounds like a golden opportunity to learn some new skills.

The real benefit of being able to switch though is that a substantial fraction of people would have sexual experience with both sets of equipment, which means they have personal knowledge of what works. Sex just got so much better for everybody.
This assumes people would even want to bother with messing around with a swapped SO. And a fair portion of people probably would, but a fair portion still probably wouldn't either. *shrug* I know were I able to turn in to a woman and have sex, I'd almost definitely do it as a lesbian, and not seek out a man.


I'd figure you'd settle on a 'primary' sex later in life, assuming a person really even bothered to do that.
I suppose so, but most people are pretty happy with their birth sex. Given the ability randomly showed up in today's society, I can't see many people swapping other than to try sex once or twice and to avoid menstruation.

[SiuiS]

The real benefit of being able to switch though is that a substantial fraction of people would have sexual experience with both sets of equipment, which means they have personal knowledge of what works. Sex just got so much better for everybody.

I dunno, I see a lot of "It works for me, you're just weird". I mean, lesbians and gay men have bad sex, too..



I'd figure you'd settle on a 'primary' sex later in life, assuming a person really even bothered to do that.

Probably cultural. A neat coming of age ceremony, though don/t you think?


I wonder how this would work with straight couples, assuming people still adhered to a more rigid binary and didn't really swap their sex a whole lot. Girlfriend turns in to a man for a few days. Boyfriend can't stand dating girlfriend while they are a man, because they don't like men. ?????

Likely a simple sabbatical. I don't see how it would be much different from not wanting to be with her during her period - EVERYONE can do this, so no one is going to be making ay assumptions about this guy and the "guy" who is usually his girlfriend.


Also, how would birth certificates work, would sex at birth, which I assume would still be the primary sex, even be notified? If you were swapped, would you revert to your SAB when you die?

I would normally say it wouldn't be relevant, but then I thought about it. Likely, you wouldn't be able to fully switch until after puberty. You'd be born one sex and likely come to identify with it, huh?

[AtlanteanTroll]

Likely a simple sabbatical. I don't see how it would be much different from not wanting to be with her during her period - EVERYONE can do this, so no one is going to be making ay assumptions about this guy and the "guy" who is usually his girlfriend.
I feel like I may very well be misinterpreting your post but ... A male may not want to have sex his female SO while she in on her period, but they're still probably going to go on dates and kiss. If the female SO goes male to avoid her period, the male is presumably not going to want to do even those. Given the primary male is rigidly straight.

A sabbatical probably makes the most sense.


I would normally say it wouldn't be relevant, but then I thought about it. Likely, you wouldn't be able to fully switch until after puberty. You'd be born one sex and likely come to identify with it, huh?
Hell if I know, it's why I was asking! :smallbiggrin::smalltongue: I think that makes sense though. Not nearly as much differences between the two sexes pre-puberty anyway.

[warty goblin]

This assumes people would even want to bother with messing around with a swapped SO. And a fair portion of people probably would, but a fair portion still probably wouldn't either. *shrug* I know were I able to turn in to a woman and have sex, I'd almost definitely do it as a lesbian, and not seek out a man.

I'd figure a substantial number of people would come around to falling in love/having sex with people they were attracted to, rather than specific genders.

]
I suppose so, but most people are pretty happy with their birth sex. Given the ability randomly showed up in today's society, I can't see many people swapping other than to try sex once or twice and to avoid menstruation.
I'm pretty happy with being a guy, it works out for me quite well. Given an easy and reversible way to shift however, I could see a lot of appeal to spending some substantial time as a woman. I don't mean this in the sense of spending hours checking myself out in the mirror, but as a legitimate curiosity.

I dunno, I see a lot of "It works for me, you're just weird". I mean, lesbians and gay men have bad sex, too..

This is true. Last I looked at any attempt to quantify such things however, it suggested homosexual people generally had better sex than straight people.


Probably cultural. A neat coming of age ceremony, though don/t you think?
If a person picked a primary sex at all. I'm not really sure why somebody wouldn't be whatever they felt like, whenever they felt like it. One or the other might dominate, but that's a bit different from deciding 'I'll spend most of my time as __.'


I would normally say it wouldn't be relevant, but then I thought about it. Likely, you wouldn't be able to fully switch until after puberty. You'd be born one sex and likely come to identify with it, huh?
Now that is plausible.

[Astrella]

I can say with absolute certainty it's not necessarily true for everyone :smallredface:

Yep. Barely any sensitivity before starting HRT and now... well. >.> :smallredface:

[Remmirath]

I'd probably just be whichever was most advantageous to me at the time. I suppose I'd end up auditioning as a male fairly often, since I frequently find myself feeling annoyed that the roles I'd most want are the male roles, and that'd give me a better chance at them.

Other than that, it would depend a bit on how much changed. I would rather be taller, so if being male would make me as tall as the men in my family, I might go for it most of the time (6'1" or so instead of 5'2"? I'd take that). I hate having to do anything more with my appearance than possibly run a brush through my hair in the morning, though, and also would not want facial hair, so that might be too annoying to keep up. Plus, then I would have to purchase new clothing and boots, and I hate doing that. Still, an extra foot of height for somebody who's always been annoyed at being short is not inconsiderable.

Eh. Whatever offers me an advantage at the time is how I think it would go down. I'm asexual and don't really give much of a damn about my gender, so considerations of gender or romance really wouldn't enter into it. I'm content being female, and I expect I'd be equally content being male.

I've no idea how society or people in general would change if that were to happen.

[Coidzor]

I would normally say it wouldn't be relevant, but then I thought about it. Likely, you wouldn't be able to fully switch until after puberty. You'd be born one sex and likely come to identify with it, huh?

Why does that strike you as likely? :smallconfused:


Now that is plausible.

Why?


I dunno, I see a lot of "It works for me, you're just weird". I mean, lesbians and gay men have bad sex, too..

You've never heard of all that jazz about homosexuals being better at giving oral sex? :smallconfused: I mean, sure, one could question the factual basis of it without some actual figures to back it up...

[Razanir]

They've always seemed the ideal garment for hot weather to me; really that they're also startlingly attractive is just a bonus. Tragically I lack the proper gender, and the proper figure, for them to work on me.

That's probably how it'd be for me. Still typically a guy, but I'd use this hypothetical power to make summer more bearable. (And perhaps to avoid monkey suits occasionally)

The real deciding question in how society would be affected: How does the transformation work? Same body, different parts? Hypothetical what-if version of you? Could you modify one body (say by dyeing your hair) and not have it affect the other?

[Proud Tortoise]

If we could change sexes at will then I doubt there would be a separation between male and female clothing 38/


Exactly. It's no secret that men think that breasts have this magical power of enslaving (nearly) any heterosexual male. Call me weird, but yeah, they are kind of mesmerising to me...

huh. I think breasts are pretty disgusting... tho not sure im a heterosexual male so


Also, how would birth certificates work, would sex at birth, which I assume would still be the primary sex, even be notified? If you were swapped, would you revert to your SAB when you die?

Depends on the society I guess...


I'd figure a substantial number of people would come around to falling in love/having sex with people they were attracted to, rather than specific genders.

That would be nice 38|


Thought so. The only other possibility was likely illicit substances.

whos to say it aint both


Out of Cheese Error, please reset universe.

YES 38D

[warty goblin]

The real deciding question in how society would be affected: How does the transformation work? Same body, different parts? Hypothetical what-if version of you? Could you modify one body (say by dyeing your hair) and not have it affect the other?
All I can say is that my hair had better carry over. I'd have awesome hair for a woman.


If we could change sexes at will then I doubt there would be a separation between male and female clothing 38/

I rather doubt that. I'm simply built differently than most women, as are most men. We just tend to be narrower in the hips and wider in the shoulders. What's comfortable and looks good on me is very different than what's comfortable and looks good on most women. My Mom for instance remembers when blue jeans for women were cut exactly like they were for men, and she hated them.


huh. I think breasts are pretty disgusting... tho not sure im a heterosexual male so
I'm sorry for you on this one. Breasts are awesome.


That would be nice 38|
It would certainly take some adjusting. I have about zero romantic, and only slightly above zero sexual interest in men. On the other hand if any romantic partner could flip back and forth nearly at will, I'd either be asking them to give up an enormous amount of personal freedom, get even more used to living alone, or learn to go with the, ah, flow. People, being adaptable sorts, would probably learn to deal with it.

Now names though, that would be seriously complicated.

[Eldest]

Honestly, I'd probably spend a decent chunk of time (half a year to a year) as a woman to find out how it is. Wouldn't affect my romantic stuff, since those whom I date are bi, I'm bi, and I think at least one of them would be far happier if the world allowed them to swap sexes, and the other would be similarly curious I think.

[lord pringle]

I've been thinking about this more, and I realized that in this society, I'd switch sexes all the time. Just because it would be pretty fun. I'd probably be able to wear the same jeans and a tee shirt combo as well.


An alternate interpretation is that more men have erogenous boobs than they are given credit for though. XD

That one is kinda true for me, at least.

EDIT: as for names, I go by a pretty androgynous nickname, so that would workout fine for me.

[Razanir]

If we could change sexes at will then I doubt there would be a separation between male and female clothing

I agree-ish. Or at least I don't think the divide would be as strict. For instance, if someone's normally a girl, but occasionally decides to "hulk up" for difficult tasks, they might not bother changing clothes. Boom. Guy in a dress.

[banthesun]

For all the people who say you'd need two separate wardrobes, I disagree. I say you'd need two half-wardrobes :smallwink: (with a degree of intersection, depending on how different your forms look). If there was a big difference between your forms, I imagine it as a matter of choosing what you want to wear before you go out (or just wearing something loose if you can't decide). For me it'd probably end up as a single wardrobe, since I doubt being taller than six foot and skinny as a twig has as much to do with my sex as with my genetics. Hell, I might come out androgynous enough that what I choose to wear mightn't even need to be based on my sex at the time. On the downside, I'd probably have to start shaving my legs. :smalleek:

I'd love to say this would completely destroy gender barriers, but I can still see how discrimination might still occur. Stuff like "Other Parent and I didn't raise you to walk the street with boobs young person!" I must say I am fond of Siuis's idea of Wyfweres though. I like the idea of calling up a bunch of friends and asking "hey, let's all go male and go watch some football!" and the like.

And to add my piece to the Boobies Appreciation Thread, I had no appreciation of breasts until I was told that women could enjoy having them fondled. This thread is making me reconsider my views somewhat. :smallconfused:


Naked boobies:

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5426388_700b.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/W0gcHhh.jpg


I wonder how this would work with straight couples, assuming people still adhered to a more rigid binary and didn't really swap their sex a whole lot. Girlfriend turns in to a man for a few days. Boyfriend can't stand dating girlfriend while they are a man, because they don't like men. ?????
Perhaps the boyfriend could turn into a woman for a while. Differing hormones do seem to play at least some role in sexual attraction, so that might work out well for both of them. Hell, even if that didn't work, I might still be more interested in dating a guy if I knew they'd have bits I'd be interested in when it comes time to do it. :smalltongue:

[Proud Tortoise]

Okay I guess clothes would fit differently, although of course it depends on body type. Names would definitely not be gender-separated. Which would be cool because most of the nice-sounding names are female.

[TaiLiu]

I would jump at the opportuniy to escape conscription.
Also, you can celebrate both Men's Day and International Women's Day!

[SiuiS]

I feel like I may very well be misinterpreting your post but ... A male may not want to have sex his female SO while she in on her period, but they're still probably going to go on dates and kiss. If the female SO goes male to avoid her period, the male is presumably not going to want to do even those. Given the primary male is rigidly straight.

A sabbatical probably makes the most sense.

Yeah. I mean it in the sense of it being a vacation, not being laid off; the relationship does not end, and then a new one starts again later. They just stop being cozy for a while.


I'd figure a substantial number of people would come around to falling in love/having sex with people they were attracted to, rather than specific genders.

I dunno, I seriously see this doing two related things;
1. Much stronger segregation
2. Much less stigma

Dating redheads, having a beard, and being a woman would all be in the same category. Stereotypes and prejudices would evolve. But because everyone could choose the prejudices would be based on "your choice is stupid".



This is true. Last I looked at any attempt to quantify such things however, it suggested homosexual people generally had better sex than straight people.


Homosexuals probably end up having more sex period that heterosexuals :smalltongue:
This of course comes entirely from three men giving me anecdotes about their crazy orgy scenes in San Fran. XD


If a person picked a primary sex at all. I'm not really sure why somebody wouldn't be whatever they felt like, whenever they felt like it. One or the other might dominate, but that's a bit different from deciding 'I'll spend most of my time as __.'

Socratic exercise; the premise included the idea that people would develop a "primary". If: primary = Yes Then: . I don't think we would develop preferred sexes, because we would all naturally be women who shifted under the full moon.


Why does that strike you as [I]likely? :smallconfused:

It is a common conception for shapeshifters, and neatly avoids issues with health and safety that arise from preadolescents with completely morphic physiologies.

Basically, if the only sexual dimorphism you experience pre puberty is "I can pee [standing/sitting], then it makes sense that the same shapeshifting that gives you sexual characteristics of note would also give you the ability to switch around. If instead there are two bodies as hypothesized, then a person could switch at will, but control would be lacking. In which case the terrible twos would be so ungodly worse.



You've never heard of all that jazz about homosexuals being better at giving oral sex? :smallconfused: I mean, sure, one could question the factual basis of it without some actual figures to back it up...

Quoting kneenibble; "he speaks french like a welsh sheepdog."
With speaking french having always been a euphemism for *******.

There are stereotypes; gay men dress well. Lesbians are good at sports. Gay people all have wild sex lives. But that's all they are, stereotypes. Some gay people have wild sex lives! Some just get tired of basically dating a drinking bird with no imagination... Or a welsh sheep dog with no skill at pronunciation.


If we could change sexes at will then I doubt there would be a separation between male and female clothing 38/

There already isn't much dimorphism in clothing. Your choices are one piece, bifurcated two piece, unbifurcated two piece.



I rather doubt that. I'm simply built differently than most women, as are most men. We just tend to be narrower in the hips and wider in the shoulders. What's comfortable and looks good on me is very different than what's comfortable and looks good on most women. My Mom for instance remembers when blue jeans for women were cut exactly like they were for men, and she hated them.


The difference is 1) size and 2) tailoring primarily though; no different than between two men.

One caveat; breast and testes. Girl pants require... effort to move in, walk in, sit in, live in, without the right adjustment. Guy shirts have no support or shaping whatsoever.



Now names though, that would be seriously complicated.

Nah, man, werewolves. The answer is always werewolves!

"This is Jessica Parker, who fights as Mauls-With-Manicures, and this is Trina Shykovsky. We call her 'The Neckbeard'. Pray you never learn why. That's Francis the Inconclusive."



And to add my piece to the Boobies Appreciation Thread, I had no appreciation of breasts until I was told that women could enjoy having them fondled. This thread is making me reconsider my views somewhat. :smallconfused:


Can != do. I've been cursed with a strong of girlfriends who are like "what? Oh, whatever. Yeah, knock yourself out, lemme just grab a book first" which sort of kills the enthusiasm.


Also, you can celebrate both Men's Day and International Women's Day!

But what if I'm not an international woman? Do I have to give up being an American? :smalleek:

[Coidzor]

It is a common conception for shapeshifters, and neatly avoids issues with health and safety that arise from preadolescents with completely morphic physiologies.

Basically, if the only sexual dimorphism you experience pre puberty is "I can pee [standing/sitting], then it makes sense that the same shapeshifting that gives you sexual characteristics of note would also give you the ability to switch around.

If instead there are two bodies as hypothesized, then a person could switch at will, but control would be lacking. In which case the terrible twos would be so ungodly worse.

That strikes me less as a statement of likelihood and more with "if someone deliberately chose to make a species like this, they'd probably include this for simplicity's sake." :smalltongue: Though if we're going to assume or accept as a premise that this species has been engineered, definitely.

I'm not really seeing where you're coming from or going to with this point. Is the main reason why you see a difference between "two bodies" and "drastically physically recognfiguring the existing body" there whether it's an instantaneous process, a fairly quick process, or a slow process when changing between sexes? Or do you think the only way to perfectly get to a different from would require switching bodies and that if it was just physicaly reconfiguration then things like skeletal structure would remain completely identical?


Quoting kneenibble; "he speaks french like a welsh sheepdog."
With speaking french having always been a euphemism for *******.

There are stereotypes; gay men dress well. Lesbians are good at sports. Gay people all have wild sex lives. But that's all they are, stereotypes. Some gay people have wild sex lives! Some just get tired of basically dating a drinking bird with no imagination... Or a welsh sheep dog with no skill at pronunciation.

Which has jack all to do with you recognizing it when it's presented to you. You acted like you'd never heard of it rather than what you're doing now which is seems to be trying to dispel the stereotype when there's no need or demand for you to do so because I didn't claim to believe in it and even included a caveat in my statement precisely so that you wouldn't feel obligated to try to enlighten. :smalltongue: :smallannoyed:


If we could change sexes at will then I doubt there would be a separation between male and female clothing 38/

In terms of gendering, at least. Some clothes pair better with certain builds, and we'd probably still have things like fat shaming because very few people want to see morbidly obese individuals wearing spandex, so I figure there's at least some chance that there'd be some snobbery about wearing clothes that don't mesh with one's sex's build, but it doesn't seem like it'd be very analogous to the current backlash people experience for crossdressing.


huh. I think breasts are pretty disgusting... tho not sure im a heterosexual male so

Because they secrete fluids? Are primarily constructed of adipose tissue? :smalltongue:


YES 38D

:smallwink:


Honestly, I'd probably spend a decent chunk of time (half a year to a year) as a woman to find out how it is. Wouldn't affect my romantic stuff, since those whom I date are bi, I'm bi, and I think at least one of them would be far happier if the world allowed them to swap sexes, and the other would be similarly curious I think.

By happenstance or do you force them to fill out a questionnaire first?


Okay I guess clothes would fit differently, although of course it depends on body type. Names would definitely not be gender-separated. Which would be cool because most of the nice-sounding names are female.

Depends on what you mean by nice-sounding, I suppose. Euphony, on the other hand... :smalltongue:

[Chen]

I would jump at the opportuniy to escape conscription.

How would this let you avoid conscription? If everyone could do it, EVERYONE could be conscripted. If muscle mass and everything changed it would be like "well we're going to war, everyone turn into their more muscular form and grab a gun".

[SiuiS]

I'm not really seeing where you're coming from or going to with this point.

Strictly an ease of reference. If the men in your family average tall (6'6"+) and the women average short (5') and petit, then I insist that your man shift would be tall and your woman shift would be short and petit, bit both have the same environmental and historical factors. Mostly to avoid "I'm suddenly a bombshell body builder" becoming the trend of discussion.




Which has jack all to do with you recognizing it when it's presented to you.

Ah, no. I have never heard a good gay sex stereotype. I have heard many gay people confess to bad sex specifically because of the "I know what I like, you're just weird" phenomenon.

[Coidzor]

Strictly an ease of reference. If the men in your family average tall (6'6"+) and the women average short (5') and petit, then I insist that your man shift would be tall and your woman shift would be short and petit, bit both have the same environmental and historical factors. Mostly to avoid "I'm suddenly a bombshell body builder" becoming the trend of discussion.

Makes sense as a general point, yeah. Is that really particularly relevant when they're two year olds though? :smallconfused:


Ah, no. I have never heard a good gay sex stereotype. I have heard many gay people confess to bad sex specifically because of the "I know what I like, you're just weird" phenomenon.

Oh, ok then. Well, at least that's cleared up, sorry.

[hicegetraenk]

Out of curiousity I would try the other sex, and hope for quite some drastic changes in appearance. I would not want to be a 2m tall woman.
And since I always wanted to be a bit shorter, I might stay a female for quite some while. Otherwise, I don't see any problems with me being male and constant switching would be annoying for everyone.

The more interesting question to me is: What would you do if only you could change your sex at will. I'd seriously mess people up ;3

[SiuiS]

How would this let you avoid conscription? If everyone could do it, EVERYONE could be conscripted. If muscle mass and everything changed it would be like "well we're going to war, everyone turn into their more muscular form and grab a gun".

Yeah, like werewolves!


Makes sense as a general point, yeah. Is that really particularly relevant when they're two year olds though?

I am fairly confident that no one answeringn this topic falls in the age range of this not being relevant :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

I am fairly confident that no one answeringn this topic falls in the age range of this not being relevant :smalltongue:

You brought it up in regards to infants, children, and especially the terrible twos, just going back up the chain of our conversational tennis.

[Kalmageddon]

Does this "sex change" magic works instantly? Because if so it could lend itself to some pretty terrible intimate pranks. :smalleek:
It would actually make me quite paranoid about it... :smalltongue:

[The Succubus]

If I could swap sexes at will, I'd swap them for a cure for all illnesses and every family to have a pet they love.

[Coidzor]

Does this "sex change" magic works instantly? Because if so it could lend itself to some pretty terrible intimate pranks. :smalleek:
It would actually make me quite paranoid about it... :smalltongue:

I'm not quite sure if prank is the right term for it, though I suppose that depends on how the physics are handled. :smalleek: I'm definitely experiencing sympathetic pain for two possible interpretations though.


If I could swap sexes at will, I'd swap them for a cure for all illnesses and every family to have a pet they love.

I don't understand that reference.

[The Succubus]

Well, would you rather have the concept of sexes and all the crap that comes with them, or would you rather have a cure for all ills and a kitty/dog/ferret?

[TechnoScrabble]

I'd have a new dance to learn.

[Asta Kask]

Would I change orientation or would I become a lesbian?

[SiuiS]

You brought it up in regards to infants, children, and especially the terrible twos, just going back up the chain of our conversational tennis.

I brought that up as a separate thing, though. I thought. :smallconfused:


If I could swap sexes at will, I'd swap them for a cure for all illnesses and every family to have a pet they love.

Heh.


Well, would you rather have the concept of sexes and all the crap that comes with them, or would you rather have a cure for all ills and a kitty/dog/ferret?

Sex and etcetera. Although, man, a ferret? Tempting...


Would I change orientation or would I become a lesbian?

Lesbian. You already like women, and now there's potentially more of them!

Plus lesbian wyfweres. It's kinda in the name.

[Kalmageddon]

Well, would you rather have the concept of sexes and all the crap that comes with them, or would you rather have a cure for all ills and a kitty/dog/ferret?

That's fairly random.
Why would we want to trade sexes for sudden overpopulation and becoming accomplices in specieism? :smalltongue:

[SiuiS]

That's fairly random.
Why would we want to trade sexes for sudden overpopulation and becoming accomplices in specieism? :smalltongue:

How would you overpopulate? You wouldn't have sex anymore.

[The Succubus]

That's fairly random.
Why would we want to trade sexes for sudden overpopulation and becoming accomplices in specieism? :smalltongue:


Although, man, a ferret? Tempting...

Highlighted the key counter argument.


But coming back to the original question? I would be very, very interested. Exploring the world from a different perspective after 32 years as a guy? With its downsides and new pleasures? Heck yes!

[warty goblin]

Highlighted the key counter argument.


But coming back to the original question? I would be very, very interested. Exploring the world from a different perspective after 32 years as a guy? With its downsides and new pleasures? Heck yes!

I'm just imagining the fun of not having my body spontaneously generate new hairs in annoying and useless places with quite its current rapidity. (Seriously body? Shoulder blade hairs?)Not being presumed a sex criminal by half the population would be kinda fun too.

[Alad]

Well, it was a bit of hyperbole, just a bit though :smallbiggrin:


I always find my hair (as in the stuff on my head) erogenous. Going to the barber is a very relaxing experience for me... Not that you needed to know, but now you do :smallwink:
Really? Damn now I feel like I'm missing out. I find going to get my hair cut one of the most anxious and awkward things that need doing regularly.
That might explain how my hair ends up long enough for the fringe to reach the bottom of my nose before I finally admit defeat and get it cut though




Sounds like a golden opportunity to learn some new skills.

The real benefit of being able to switch though is that a substantial fraction of people would have sexual experience with both sets of equipment, which means they have personal knowledge of what works. Sex just got so much better for everybody.


I'd figure you'd settle on a 'primary' sex later in life, assuming a person really even bothered to do that.
See, while everyone varies I would have assumed that trying a body of the opposite gender would lend insight and perspective to what generally works, so to speak. even if everyone has quirks :smalltongue:





lesbian wyfweres.

I want this world. make it happen.

[Kalmageddon]

Now, here's a question: how many people do you think would start living a double life, with completly different friends, partners and even families, one as a woman and another as a man?

[Aedilred]

Really? Damn now I feel like I'm missing out. I find going to get my hair cut one of the most anxious and awkward things that need doing regularly.
I share this anxiety, although it has less to do with the physical sensation of having my hair cut, and more to do with the practical aspects of the procedure that accompany it: having to explain what you want it to look like when you're not entirely sure yourself; the terrifying small talk with the barber; the risk that if it goes even a bit wrong it'll look ridiculous; the annoyance of having to spend an afternoon (assuming you get it done at lunchtime, since the majority of decent barbers round here seem to close at 5 and not open at weekends) with itchy hairs down the back of your neck; seeing clearly how grey and thin my hair has got since the last time I had it cut; and of course the cost of having it done, which is something I never fail to resent*.


Now, here's a question: how many people do you think would start living a double life, with completly different friends, partners and even families, one as a woman and another as a man?
Probably no more than are already inclined to lead a double life.

*I don't mind paying the barber for their work; it just annoys me that I have to have my hair cut regularly at all.

[SiuiS]

Now, here's a question: how many people do you think would start living a double life, with completly different friends, partners and even families, one as a woman and another as a man?

Absolutely none.

Having a different look doesn't change your legal identity at all. Plus, everyone can do this. You will surprise and confuse no one. I feel this is being missed with regularity. Its like asking if someone woke up and half of their wardrobe was now tie die and spandex, would they lead a double life.

[dehro]

Now, here's a question: how many people do you think would start living a double life, with completly different friends, partners and even families, one as a woman and another as a man?

not me.. I'm too lazy for that.

[Coidzor]

Well, would you rather have the concept of sexes and all the crap that comes with them, or would you rather have a cure for all ills and a kitty/dog/ferret?

Trading the ability to perpetuate the species for long lives of stagnation and the eventual extinction of the species doesn't particularly appeal to me, no.

And I've had cats, dogs, and ferrets. As much as I love my pooch, I'm not giving up the capacity to have sexual intercourse for him. :smalltongue: As for cats? Pfah!

[SiuiS]

People who don't like cats confuse me, until I remember they probably aren't themselves catlike enough.

The first time you pin a cat to the ground with your teeth while growling because they peed in the wrong spot, they'll learn.

[MikelaC1]

Im quite happy with my sex being the way it is, and wouldn't be intrigued to change. People who would, I think, don't realize there are just as many down sides to being the other sex, they just haven't experienced them.

[SiuiS]

I think you misunderstand how easily other viewpoints deal with downsides.

I'm a sensualist. The idea of having a slightly different body just so I can compare how pain feels is intriguing, let alone anything sex specific, or height-shift specific. I think I would spend several hours on a jungle gym just toying with my new center of gravity.

[Coidzor]

The first time you pin a cat to the ground with your teeth while growling because they peed in the wrong spot, they'll learn.

Having to do that isn't exactly selling cats very well. Especially to those with cat allergies who might be able to live with one, but ingesting cat wouldn't do them any favors.

[Remmirath]

I wouldn't think names would be a problem. Likely, if this were common, gendered names would be completely done away with. I've personally never seen the point of that anyhow, and if everybody could switch as they wished, I certainly wouldn't see the point.

My name is gender-neutral anyhow, so even if that didn't change, it wouldn't be a problem for me personally.


I rather doubt that. I'm simply built differently than most women, as are most men. We just tend to be narrower in the hips and wider in the shoulders. What's comfortable and looks good on me is very different than what's comfortable and looks good on most women. My Mom for instance remembers when blue jeans for women were cut exactly like they were for men, and she hated them.

I, on the other hand, am often frustrated by attempting to buy women's clothes, and generally end up wearing men's clothes because they fit me better (so long as I can find small enough sizes). Not to mention the whole ridiculousness of women's jeans and even cargo pants having insufficient pockets to carry things in and insufficiently thick fabric to withstand anything more than walking around. Actually, flimsy material and lack of practicality is an unfortunately common complaint in women's clothes, and if you do happen to be a woman who has narrower hips you're pretty out of luck with women's pants ever fitting you.

I think the best solution would just be to have a wide range of clothing, and not label any of it as male or female, but unfortunately nobody who makes clothing seems to agree with me on that.

[Alad]

Im quite happy with my sex being the way it is, and wouldn't be intrigued to change. People who would, I think, don't realize there are just as many down sides to being the other sex, they just haven't experienced them.
I'm sure there's a degree of grass being greener in there on my part and I'm sure there are downsides I am unaware of. but at the same time I dont like being big tall guy overly. I mean its useful sometimes. But generally? no me no likey :smalltongue:

[Proud Tortoise]

Would it be waking up one day and everyone can switch genders or would it be something that's always been? If the latter, I am pretty sure there would be no gender distinction for names.

[inexorabletruth]

There are already several species on earth that can do this when the need arises. Most of them are fish… so it's hard to test what they're thinking, but aside from the obviously nsfw applications to this ability (I personally would switch to a woman at least once to do some jumping jacks, I must admit), I think our entire psyche would change.

First gender identity would be more a matter of strict definition than a connotation of morals, introspection or philosophy. Therefore there'd be no need for sexual identifiers like homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, etc within our own species. But apart from the sexual aspect, it would change society on a much larger scale.

Identification would require two images. Job descriptions could define gender appearance on application. "Seeking qualified waitstaff: must be willing to be female for all shifts."

Or it could create a system of complete androgyny within our culture. Clothing would be designed for a more generic body type, and would be more flexible, or perhaps baggy to accommodate a midday gender shift. Maybe we'd all be wearing a lot more spandex… hmm.

Regardless, I don't think we'd be as fixated on a gender binary. I don't imagine that switching back and forth from female to male would dramatically change our musculature though, just the reproductive organs and their respective functionality. So, I think a lot more of us are going to look either slender and androgynous, or oddly disproportion from our current standardized gender-specific images.

Product marketing in general would change its nature. Instead of breaking target markets down by gender, it would have to market more towards gender flexibility or gender neutrality. Products engineered for "manly men" or "girly girls" would be special ordered or aftermarket products instead of mainstream products.

I think it would even effect architecture. During certain periods throughout even the last few centuries, there's been an obvious gender preference in architecture. Up until the mid 20th century many structures in western culture were designed to represent the curves and highlights represented in feminine beauty. But as the women's lib movement started making a more significant impact in the workforce, especially during WW2, structures started taking on a more phallic look. I can't imagine what we'd emphasize in architecture if gender less a matter of identity than a matter of convenience. I doubt we'd go with "the most practical, emotionless, gender equal structure" because I don't think being gender-flexible would eliminate creativity or a love of beauty. But I'm not sure what aesthetic we would attempt to represent in our civil structures.

Regardless, I doubt gender flexibility would advance society, because there's no evidence that it has in any other hermaphroditic species. It would however redefine matters of identity and sexual morality… not to mention procreation. For instance, could a female, in order to prevent pregnancy, quickly change in a male after sex?

[MikelaC1]

There are already several species on earth that can do this when the need arises. Most of them are fish

An interesting fact. All clown fish (Nemo type) are born as males. The largest one from any brood (clown fish do not lay the hundreds of eggs portrayed in the movie) then transforms into female.

[Killer Angel]

People who don't like cats confuse me, until I remember they probably aren't themselves catlike enough.


We all know that people who don't like cats, were probably mice in an earlier life. :smallwink:

[MikelaC1]

People who don't like cats confuse me, until I remember they probably aren't themselves catlike enough..

People who don't like cats know that dogs are better than cats. If there is a fire in your home, the dog will be running around and barking, trying to get your family awake and out to safety. The cat, on the other hand, will be sneaking out the back door with the money.

[Kalmageddon]

People who don't like cats know that dogs are better than cats. If there is a fire in your home, the dog will be running around and barking, trying to get your family awake and out to safety. The cat, on the other hand, will be sneaking out the back door with the money.

There are fire alarms these days.
And cats are the most beautiful creatures in the whole universe and beyond, just pointing that out for those that haven't realized yet.

[warty goblin]

It's not that I a priori dislike cats, it's just that every cat I've ever lived with has been some variety of horrible. Now I've had some unfortunate dogs as well, but they at least gave a damn about us.

[Coidzor]

We all know that people who don't like cats, were probably mice in an earlier life. :smallwink:

People who don't like cats have learned they don't like cats over a long life full of cats that died too quickly, cats that lingered on and wouldn't die when it was their time to go, and cats that were bloody-minded little bastards that turned on their masters despite having received good care, upbringing, and socialization.

But that's neither here nor there.

[Alad]

I like my mums cat well enough, until I find it playing with the corpse of a juvinile woodpecker it killed.
I like my dads cat well enough, until it mewls constantly when we are eating chicken worse than any dog I have ever met and puts bloody scraches on my arm when I leave it hanging over a chair arm
I like my girlfriends cats well enough, until they Bite my toes at 4 in the morning, and then I have to spend the next 15 minutes preventing it doing the same to her while trying not to wake her myself.

DISCLAIMER: I am a dog person.

[Eldariel]

Cats and dogs are both awesome. And ferrets too. I dunno why anyone would pick one or the other or one group or the other; all of them have their charms. I can respect hyperactive loyal creatures as well as calm selfish ones.

[Proud Tortoise]

Cats and dogs are both awesome. And ferrets too. I dunno why anyone would pick one or the other or one group or the other; all of them have their charms. I can respect hyperactive loyal creatures as well as calm selfish ones.

Yeah! I prefer dogs because they are, on average, more predictable. I hate when cats are acting perfectly content to be petted and then scratch you because they suddenly decided they were tired of being petted. But not all cats do that, and on the whole cats are pretty great.

...wait, why does it say "Re: What if we could swap sexes at will?" in the Title line? 38P

[dehro]

I like dogs more than cats, as a rule. Cats however seem to go along very well with me, for some obscure reason.

Can we go back to talking about boobies now?

[Coidzor]

Well, the long and short of it is that I wouldn't trade human reproduction, recreational sex, and pair(+)bonding for a pet, even if it meant I wasn't going to ever get another cold or die from cancer or heart disease.

Dead is still dead, and extinct is still extinct, whether from old age, disease, accident, or violence.


...wait, why does it say "Re: What if we could swap sexes at will?" in the Title line? 38P

Because each post is a reply to the original title. Or if someone changes the title in their post, any replies to that post become Re: Whatever.

[Proud Tortoise]

Because each post is a reply to the original title. Or if someone changes the title in their post, any replies to that post become Re: Whatever.

It was a joke. Because we got totally off-topic.

[Bulldog Psion]

It would certainly change human perspectives. For myself, I think I'd stay male. I don't see anything to gain by changing if I'm comfortable this way. But I think that overall, it would be a benefit for humanity.

[TaiLiu]

But what if I'm not an international woman? Do I have to give up being an American? :smalleek:
I'm afraid so. Now, hand in your highly American passport...

How would this let you avoid conscription? If everyone could do it, EVERYONE could be conscripted. If muscle mass and everything changed it would be like "well we're going to war, everyone turn into their more muscular form and grab a gun".
In Russia, barring certain circumstances, all male humans have to serve in the military for a set amount of time - war or no war.

[warty goblin]

I like my mums cat well enough, until I find it playing with the corpse of a juvinile woodpecker it killed.

When it comes to playing with corpses, you can't really diss cats for it more than dogs. Most of the dogs we've had can keen a decent bit of offal kicking around the yard for weeks while it develops fascinating new odors. Cats'll lose interest pretty fast in my experience.

[SiuiS]

People who don't like cats know that dogs are better than cats. If there is a fire in your home, the dog will be running around and barking, trying to get your family awake and out to safety. The cat, on the other hand, will be sneaking out the back door with the money.

Pfff. That only works if you're not the alpha cat.
But if you're not, god help you.


It's not that I a priori dislike cats, it's just that every cat I've ever lived with has been some variety of horrible. Now I've had some unfortunate dogs as well, but they at least gave a damn about us.

I have never seen a pet cat that was taken care of who didn't love it's people, honestly. Cats have funny ways of showing it, but it's there.


People who don't like cats have learned they don't like cats over a long life full of cats that died too quickly, cats that lingered on and wouldn't die when it was their time to go, and cats that were bloody-minded little bastards that turned on their masters despite having received good care, upbringing, and socialization.

But that's neither here nor there.

Life in microcosm. Well spoke.


Cats and dogs are both awesome. And ferrets too. I dunno why anyone would pick one or the other or one group or the other; all of them have their charms. I can respect hyperactive loyal creatures as well as calm selfish ones.

Calm & selfish can apply to dogs and loyal & hyperactive to cats, too.


Yeah! I prefer dogs because they are, on average, more predictable. I hate when cats are acting perfectly content to be petted and then scratch you because they suddenly decided they were tired of being petted. But not all cats do that, and on the whole cats are pretty great.

...wait, why does it say "Re: What if we could swap sexes at will?" in the Title line? 38P

Oh, please. The question was answered in the first three posts. Everything else has been for my amusement.
If you've got a problem with that, you could always shift to Lumberjack form and we could go at it, as is only societally proper. u_u



In Russia, barring certain circumstances, all male humans have to serve in the military for a set amount of time - war or no war.

And if everyone is male on comand, EVERYONE does this. "But I'm a woman!" "Well, shift over and be quick about it!" Etc.,

[dehro]

When it comes to playing with corpses, you can't really diss cats for it more than dogs. Most of the dogs we've had can keen a decent bit of offal kicking around the yard for weeks while it develops fascinating new odors. Cats'll lose interest pretty fast in my experience.

I don't know why but this post conjured up a mental image of you in a field full of dead cats and dogs in various stages of decomposition, walking around, occasionally sniffling and taking notes on your clipboard

[warty goblin]

I don't know why but this post conjured up a mental image of you in a field full of dead cats and dogs in various stages of decomposition, walking around, occasionally sniffling and taking notes on your clipboard

You know, I used to have a cat skull. It was the pride of my skull collection, because my sister didn't have one. My sister at this time would decapitate the corpses of various woodland creatures she found, put the head in a container, and tape that to a tree for the insects to work over.

We had unusual childhoods. My parents try to deny it, I point out I'm the only person I have ever met who had a literal dead rat and a string to swing it with.

[SiuiS]

Nice! I could never find anything dead and intact enough to keep :smallfrown:

I plan on maybe doing this with my pets, though. Keep them with me after they die, reminisce about our fond times together~

No trees for jars, though, wouldn't work around here. I'd have to just keep their wee kitty heads at a hard boil until all the tissue sloughed off, and hope I didn't damage the bone too much. And then do something about the smell.

Maybe I need a better plan?

[banthesun]

Well, would you rather have the concept of sexes and all the crap that comes with them, or would you rather have a cure for all ills and a kitty/dog/ferret?

I'm willing to trade one sex for the cure to all ills, but I think I'd rather keep one rather than get a pet. Wait, are penguins a possibility? I might have to change my answer. :smalltongue:


It's not that I a priori dislike cats, it's just that every cat I've ever lived with has been some variety of horrible. Now I've had some unfortunate dogs as well, but they at least gave a damn about us.

It seems you have mainly experienced evil cats. Have you thought about trying stupid cats? It's all the fun of a kitten, but you don't have to worry about how they'll be when they're grown up.


And if everyone is male on comand, EVERYONE does this. "But I'm a woman!" "Well, shift over and be quick about it!" Etc.,

Now you've got me thinking, if there's no clear distinction between genders, how would soldiers disguise themselves as washerwomen to sneak into castles? Not to mention we wouldn't have Mulan (or if we did, a certain song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSS5dEeMX64) would be significantly shorter)


I think it would even effect architecture. During certain periods throughout even the last few centuries, there's been an obvious gender preference in architecture. Up until the mid 20th century many structures in western culture were designed to represent the curves and highlights represented in feminine beauty. But as the women's lib movement started making a more significant impact in the workforce, especially during WW2, structures started taking on a more phallic look. I can't imagine what we'd emphasize in architecture if gender less a matter of identity than a matter of convenience. I doubt we'd go with "the most practical, emotionless, gender equal structure" because I don't think being gender-flexible would eliminate creativity or a love of beauty. But I'm not sure what aesthetic we would attempt to represent in our civil structures.

I must say, I'm curious as to what you're refering to when you say earlier buildings represented feminine beauty. When I think of historical architecture, I think of colums, towers, and turrets, all as phalic as it comes. The only buildings I can think of with an emphasis on curves or softer forms are post 60s designs.

[warty goblin]

Nice! I could never find anything dead and intact enough to keep :smallfrown:

It mostly requires a willingness to put up with some dried skin, a few maggots, and some really remarkable stinks.


No trees for jars, though, wouldn't work around here. I'd have to just keep their wee kitty heads at a hard boil until all the tissue sloughed off, and hope I didn't damage the bone too much. And then do something about the smell.

Maybe I need a better plan?

If you get 'em fresh, the smell shouldn't be too bad. Boiling meat doesn't stink as a rule, though I'm not sure about boiling brain. Fur might smell pretty rank.

Mind, I don't think I have quite the fortitude to start carving the heads off my recently deceased pets. Decapitating animals isn't exactly the world's most pleasant task, even when I've specifically raised them to kill and eat them. When it comes to my faithful companion of the last decade, I'm pretty sure it's not in me to reach for the boning knife. I'll stick with a nice grave out under the willow, thanks.

[Tyndmyr]

So, since the "What if we were hermaphrodites?" thread was kind of popular there's a related question I've been asking myself:

What if every person could choose their gender? Yeah, I guess it kid of comes down to the specifics of how this would work but let's imagine the biologically least plausibly case of everyone having a male and a female identity and just being able to transform into the other at any point in time. (Though, we should probably exclude all kind of kinky ideas this scenario might give rise to :smallredface:)

Obviously, this is all based on speculation but I'm just curious what you people think and what you personally would do if you were able to just become (fe)male whenever you want.

Read the Culture novels. It explores this in some detail(though some time and what not is required for transformation, it isn't quite instant). Some people stick with one gender, some flip back and forth, and some avoid gender altogether. In this admittedly hypothetical society, it is fairly egalitarian, as discrimination is naturally held in check by people experiencing both sides of the coin and being able to switch if one side has an advantage.

*shrug* May happen eventually, with enough tech, who knows? Me, I have no particular urge to swap, but no doubt some would wish to at least experiment to see how the other half live.

[SiuiS]

It seems you have mainly experienced evil cats. Have you thought about trying stupid cats? It's all the fun of a kitten, but you don't have to worry about how they'll be when they're grown up.

This is somewhat true. I have a "stupid cat", in that his response to, say, being blindsided by fast movement (he's got a bad left eye) is to exclaim, look at you, then purr and sit down. I'm afraid to ever let him outside, really. But he was able to teach his petsitter how to take care of the cats while we were on vacation, meowing and doing that "follow me" motion that only really happens in movies, leading the person to the kitchen, to the water purifier, and then to the empty water bowl over and over until they figured it out.

And that was, like, a Zelda puzzle. You had to take the water in the jar, to the purifier, back into the jar, then the water bowl. I think the guy earned a piece of heart.



Now you've got me thinking, if there's no clear distinction between genders, how would soldiers disguise themselves as washerwomen to sneak into castles? Not to mention we wouldn't have Mulan (or if we did, a certain song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSS5dEeMX64) would be significantly shorter)


"Be a maaa~aaan"
"Okay!"
"Swift as a— wait, what? Damn!"

Although we would probably get a movie that parents would freak out about those mk bisexuals and convince their kids that that's not what happened.


It mostly requires a willingness to put up with some dried skin, a few maggots, and some really remarkable stinks.


I always had janitors or other children steal my hidden corpses :(



Mind, I don't think I have quite the fortitude to start carving the heads off my recently deceased pets. Decapitating animals isn't exactly the world's most pleasant task, even when I've specifically raised them to kill and eat them. When it comes to my faithful companion of the last decade, I'm pretty sure it's not in me to reach for the boning knife. I'll stick with a nice grave out under the willow, thanks.

That's probably why I haven't done it yet! It'll be weird when I consider them people.

[dehro]

You know, I used to have a cat skull. It was the pride of my skull collection, because my sister didn't have one. My sister at this time would decapitate the corpses of various woodland creatures she found, put the head in a container, and tape that to a tree for the insects to work over.

We had unusual childhoods. My parents try to deny it, I point out I'm the only person I have ever met who had a literal dead rat and a string to swing it with.

and now you've gone full texas chainsaw massacre...
I shouldn't talk though.. where I grew up there were stuffed foxes and martens, live/caged rare pheasants and a few other remnants of the previous owners.

[SiuiS]

Oh, I'm sure we all had traumatic childhoods. It is all in how you deal with things.

[Kato]

I'm somewhat afraid to trace back the way how this topic arrived at the matter of cats and collecting animal corpses :smalleek:


I guess I'll have to admit it's pretty hard/impossible to actually retrace the cultural evolution of society if this would have applied from the beginning... I guess the idea of every human waking up with this power all of a sudden is somewhat easier to discuss. And the first result (after mass panic, search for a culprit and similar events) would be to come up with new reasons to discriminate people who change too often or too rarely with their new found ability... Yay, humans :smalltongue:

[Razanir]

I'm somewhat afraid to trace back the way how this topic arrived at the matter of cats and collecting animal corpses :smalleek:


I guess I'll have to admit it's pretty hard/impossible to actually retrace the cultural evolution of society if this would have applied from the beginning... I guess the idea of every human waking up with this power all of a sudden is somewhat easier to discuss. And the first result (after mass panic, search for a culprit and similar events) would be to come up with new reasons to discriminate people who change too often or too rarely with their new found ability... Yay, humans :smalltongue:

Again, one interesting side effect (once we got used to the ability) would be that it could show up on job descriptions. "Waitress needed. Must be willing to be female for all shifts."

[Proud Tortoise]

I'm somewhat afraid to trace back the way how this topic arrived at the matter of cats and collecting animal corpses :smalleek:

It was a totally random mention of the cats v. dogs argument.

[Coidzor]

It was a totally random mention of the cats v. dogs argument.

Which came up because a certain someone said they'd rather have every cat and dog and ferret in a loving home instead of humanity having any sexes whatsoever.

So it's all been one non sequitur after another. Somehow sequituring.

[SiuiS]

Again, one interesting side effect (once we got used to the ability) would be that it could show up on job descriptions. "Waitress needed. Must be willing to be female for all shifts."

Man, that's hella sexist! They can't do that now (except for strip clubs), why would it be cool for then?


Which came up because a certain someone said they'd rather have every cat and dog and ferret in a loving home instead of humanity having any sexes whatsoever.

So it's all been one non sequitur after another. Somehow sequituring.

Because the question of what should you give up sex for came up, and succi took it to mean "for what would you relinquish the concepts and existence of sex". Because he's nice like that. :smallsmile:

Man, looking up the definition of nonsequitur? It's the definition of my thought patterns.

[Asta Kask]

Man, that's hella sexist! They can't do that now (except for strip clubs), why would it be cool for then?

It would be like "waitresses must agree to dye their hair red". The whole "sexism" angle wouldn't exist.

[warty goblin]

and now you've gone full texas chainsaw massacre...
I shouldn't talk though.. where I grew up there were stuffed foxes and martens, live/caged rare pheasants and a few other remnants of the previous owners.
Nah, that was learning anatomy by slaughtering hogs. It gives a person a bit of perspective when one of their earliest memories involves a length of disembodied small intestine, a hose, and the promise of sausage on the morrow.


Oh, I'm sure we all had traumatic childhoods. It is all in how you deal with things.

I don't think there was anything at all traumatic about mine, quite the contrary. It was a mite unusual though, and seems to have involved somewhat more viscera than most people in my age cohort.

[Coidzor]

Dangit. Now I want sausage. All I've got is some bacon that's been in the fridge for long enough it's starting to seem dodgy.

Hm. BLTs it is. Now just to find the T.


Man, that's hella sexist! They can't do that now (except for strip clubs), why would it be cool for then?

Because it's a minor inconvenience during one's shift, presumably. Though, really, if I were to envision that sort of thing, I'd just think that it'd be like Hooters, I'd imagine, where it's implied but not stated overtly.

Granted, that's going under the assumption that such a concept even fit with the resultant societal configuration. I'm not sure that it would necessarily, and I'm not comfortable with assigning a probability to it.


Because the question of what should you give up sex for came up, and succi took it to mean "for what would you relinquish the concepts and existence of sex". Because he's nice like that. :smallsmile:

I'm not sure damning humanity to extinction is really all that "nice." :smalltongue:

Nor did I even begin to parse anything as reading along those lines. :smallconfused: Guess I just missed it.

[Winthur]

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110909090613/deusex/en/images/2/28/PaulDenton.png

I'd stick with my prod. Prod with my prod. Just in case, though, I am police.

[SiuiS]

It would be like "waitresses must agree to dye their hair red". The whole "sexism" angle wouldn't exist.

No, if on Monday everyone woke up, and on Tuesday, Jim's boss said "sorry Jim, we only allow employees with titties now, shift or leave" that's still sexist.



I don't think there was anything at all traumatic about mine, quite the contrary. It was a mite unusual though, and seems to have involved somewhat more viscera than most people in my age cohort.

I meant in the general sense. "Everyone goes through experiences they are fine with that others would find literally tragic".



Because it's a minor inconvenience during one's shift, presumably. Though, really, if I were to envision that sort of thing, I'd just think that it'd be like Hooters, I'd imagine, where it's implied but not stated overtly.[/wuote]

Yeah. As a thing like strip clubs, where you could go in as a sweaty hairy dude and apply but probably not get the job, it fits.

Denny's? Not so much. XD

[quote]
I'm not sure damning humanity to extinction is really all that "nice." :smalltongue:

Oh pishposh. We can magically switch physical sex without massive colors depletion, exquisite pain and rampant radiation from the molecular reconfiguring, but we can't give up sex entirely and still reproduce somehow?


Nor did I even begin to parse anything as reading along those lines. :smallconfused: Guess I just missed it.

I read it, went "huh?" And read it again, and went "oh, clever."


http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110909090613/deusex/en/images/2/28/PaulDenton.png

I'd stick with my prod. Prod with my prod. Just in case, though, I am police.

I don't get it.

[Winthur]

I don't get it.

I have contamination and mutants in my brain.

[Coidzor]

Oh pishposh. We can magically switch physical sex without massive colors depletion, exquisite pain and rampant radiation from the molecular reconfiguring, but we can't give up sex entirely and still reproduce somehow?

Not without ceasing to discuss human-analogs. More like, sapient amoebas.

[The Succubus]

I think the idea of Asari reproduction would be a fairly good analogue for "sexless" reproduction. Each member of the species is capable of giving birth but only after a very specific form of interaction with another member of said species. The shared nervous system holds fascinating biological possibilities. Plus the sex reproductive interactions(?) would be really amazing <3

[Jaycemonde]

As long as being able to settle for both bits and an otherwise female form's on the table, hell yeah. If not, I guess I could live with it somehow.
I'm always surprised when threads like these don't turn completely violent and/or stupid.

[warty goblin]

I think the idea of Asari reproduction would be a fairly good analogue for "sexless" reproduction. Each member of the species is capable of giving birth but only after a very specific form of interaction with another member of said species. The shared nervous system holds fascinating biological possibilities. Plus the sex reproductive interactions(?) would be really amazing <3

I donno. Having to have an infodump cutscene every time anybody wanted to get their freak on could get pretty old.

"Hey honey, wanna mess around?"
"Not tonight dear, I'm just not in the mood for a blurry rendition of you going to the grocery store."

[Coidzor]

I think the idea of Asari reproduction would be a fairly good analogue for "sexless" reproduction. Each member of the species is capable of giving birth but only after a very specific form of interaction with another member of said species. The shared nervous system holds fascinating biological possibilities. Plus the sex reproductive interactions(?) would be really amazing <3

No, then you just would have a female-only species that's really into getting jiggy with other species. :smallsigh: