[3.5]Spell storing, enchanting, and scrolls

[Axeblade]

First time poster here. I have 2 questions for the wise and mighty playground. :smallsmile:

First, regarding a spell storing weapon: Can the spell be from a scroll? Or must the character placing the spell in the weapon be a caster, and be capable of casting said spell?

Second, regarding enchanting: Can scrolls be used for creating wondrous items/enchanting weapons and armor? Or, again, must said character be a spell caster capable of casting said spells?

I ask about spell storing weapons because I am in the process of building an assassin character and had the idea of him using a quick-loading crossbow with spell storing bolts. In particular I was looking at druid 7 (wild shape for free poisons, and some nice spells for spell storing) to meet requirements for Assassin levels. If scrolls can be used for spell storing weapons I was instead considering a martial assassin of rogue 3/fighter 2 and then Assassins levels. Using UMD checks to store spells off scrolls.

I ask about enchanting because my current character is a cleric enchanter, but there are quite a few enchantments/wondrous items that require non-cleric spells, and my current build doesn't allow for me to take levels in wizard/druid. Also my party lacks another spell caster, which rules out cooperative item creation.

[Clistenes]

Yes, you can use scrolls to craft magic items, but you will have to buy a scroll per each day of work (you have to cast all the spells each day) and you will also probably need to take some ranks in Use Magic Device.

About spell storing, I guess you can use scrolls too.

[Curmudgeon]

I ask about spell storing weapons because I am in the process of building an assassin character and had the idea of him using a quick-loading crossbow with spell storing bolts.
That doesn't work, for two reasons:

You're not wielding the bolt after you fire it. If anyone is wielding it, it's the person it's stuck in.
Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires.
That doesn't matter anyway because the magic is destroyed on impact, before anyone would be able to cast the stored spell.
Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless
A damaged magic item continues to function, but if it is destroyed, all its magical power is lost.

[Captnq]

First, regarding a spell storing weapon: Can the spell be from a scroll? Or must the character placing the spell in the weapon be a caster, and be capable of casting said spell?


The spell must be CAST into the spell storing weapon. This means it must be from a caster, or from someone casting a spell. A scroll is just like casting the original spell. Think of it like storing the spell on paper instead of inside your brain.

You don't have to be able to cast the spell, but you do have to cast it. I know that sounds odd, but Use Magic Device can get around the whole need to be able to cast something. So if you have the scroll, then UMD and successfully read it, poof, your spell is now stored in your weapon.



Second, regarding enchanting: Can scrolls be used for creating wondrous items/enchanting weapons and armor? Or, again, must said character be a spell caster capable of casting said spells?

The problem is, yes, you COULD use the scroll. But you would need a fresh scroll for every single day you were enchanting the magic item. This would get expensive very quickly.

now note this does seem to be contradicted by the Artificer Class, which indicates you only need to know the spell ONCE while crafting, and even then an artificer can UDM to imitate knowing the spell. However, while this does far reaching implications, we have to assume, that as a RAW reading, that this is a power only allowed to Artificers. So, we have to go with the default reading of the original DMG, which states:

"Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed)."

And.

"If spells are involved in the prerequisites, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast."

Now, having searched the DMG, it is unclear if the spell is "consumed", but the RAI (as well as indications from WORD OF GOD) is that the spell is used up during every 8 hour period spent each day crafting the magic item. Which means you need to have access to the spell for every day it takes to make the magic item, which is typically 1 day for every 2,000 gp of the final cost.



I ask about spell storing weapons because I am in the process of building an assassin character and had the idea of him using a quick-loading crossbow with spell storing bolts. In particular I was looking at druid 7 (wild shape for free poisons, and some nice spells for spell storing) to meet requirements for Assassin levels. If scrolls can be used for spell storing weapons I was instead considering a martial assassin of rogue 3/fighter 2 and then Assassins levels. Using UMD checks to store spells off scrolls.


Well, I direct you to the EVD. the link is below in my Sig file. Everything you need to know about enchanting weapons is in there.

However, Spell storing is a melee only Weapon Special Ability, so it would not work in Ammunition.

If it did, it would still only work once per 50 bolts. You don't get to store the spell 50 times. You get to store the spell once for all 50 bolts. Fire a bolt, then have to cast the spell again into the the other 49. However, in theory, you could have one friend with one bolt, and you have the other 49. Whenever the arrow was empty, regardless of distance, your friend could recharge the entire set of arrows by casting the spell into that one bolt.

So you can see why spell storing is melee only. That would be just silly.



I ask about enchanting because my current character is a cleric enchanter, but there are quite a few enchantments/wondrous items that require non-cleric spells, and my current build doesn't allow for me to take levels in wizard/druid. Also my party lacks another spell caster, which rules out cooperative item creation.

Ah. Well. If you want to do the Weapon Enchanting thing, may I recommend getting the EVD, look up:
EVD/Combat Equipment/
Augment Crystals v1.01.doc
Materials v1.04.doc
Poison v2.02.doc
Templates v1.02.doc
Weapon Special Abilities Extrapolated v2.02.doc
Weapon Special Abilities v3.10.doc
Weapons-Shields v4.05.doc

That should cover everything. I suggest starting with WSA v3.10. That has the most suggestions for enchanting weapons.

[TuggyNE]

Now, having searched the DMG, it is unclear if the spell is "consumed", but the RAI (as well as indications from WORD OF GOD) is that the spell is used up during every 8 hour period spent each day crafting the magic item. Which means you need to have access to the spell for every day it takes to make the magic item, which is typically 1 day for every 2,000 gp of the final cost.


The act of working on the armor triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the armor’s creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from his currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)

And similarly for all other types of magic items. Even the RAW seems clear enough to me; did I miss something?