Oh no! Templates and LA again...

[Dr. Azkur]

This time it really makes no sense to me.

How are you supposed to use the Incarnate Construct template (LA -2) if no golem ever provides LA (i.e. LA —)? How are we to calculate the whole thing?

[OldTrees1]

Good point. Meet the only construct with an ECL in the SRD: Zelekhut ECL 15, LA +7

[(Un)Inspired]

Perfect! Slap on incarnate construct and it's totally playable.

[Urpriest]

If you read Savage Species itself, you'll see that it gives many MM constructs LA. Golems, for example, are given with LA values for both Incarnate and Awakened (though oddly they don't appear to use the -2 adjustment).

[The Insaniac]

You can also slap it on living constructs. Afflicted lycanthrope Warforged incarnate construct is +0 LA.

[Dr. Azkur]

If you read Savage Species itself, you'll see that it gives many MM constructs LA. Golems, for example, are given with LA values for both Incarnate and Awakened (though oddly they don't appear to use the -2 adjustment).

Thank you, oh Defiler of the Divine! Oh... +6, +6 and +8. Not pretty... Oh Well!


You can also slap it on living constructs. Afflicted lycanthrope Warforged incarnate construct is +0 LA.

Weeeeeeird stuff. I'd like to see a drawing of that!

[Urpriest]

You can also slap it on living constructs. Afflicted lycanthrope Warforged incarnate construct is +0 LA.

And doesn't work. Warforged aren't legitimate targets for Lycanthropy, and you need the template whose LA you're cancelling to apply before the Incarnate Construct spell is cast.

[(Un)Inspired]

Thank you, oh Defiler of the Divine! Oh... +6, +6 and +8. Not pretty... Oh Well!



Weeeeeeird stuff. I'd like to see a drawing of that!

Ask and ye shall receive.

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/237/e/a/ea6f38e66cd53ac3f5f5c4c54a3fe5d3.png

[Dr. Azkur]

Ask and ye shall receive.

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/237/e/a/ea6f38e66cd53ac3f5f5c4c54a3fe5d3.png

HAH! I was not expecting such reply. Beautiful piece, my museless man! I thank you.

[Maginomicon]

The Quesar from Book of Exalted Deeds has a monster class progression. It's a non-living construct you can play from level 1. I'm not sure how monster classes interact with LA though...

[Gemini476]

The Quesar from Book of Exalted Deeds has a monster class progression. It's a non-living construct you can play from level 1. I'm not sure how monster classes interact with LA though...

Monster classes still receive LA as part of their progression. I'm sure it'll work out fine.

You also have those constructs from Acheron that I always forget the name of. They have a pretty low ECL.

Dustform also makes any creature into a construct for +2 LA.

[Codyage]

The Maug says hello from Fiend Folio!

ECL 5, LA 3, Racial Hit Dice 2. Incarnate to make this bad boy an ECL 3.

LA 1, with 2RHD and you get

+10 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma, and the Large size and a some other goodies to go with it.

(This is just a guess based on a statted out creature, since the actually ability adjustments aren't flat out listed.)

[Gemini476]

The Maug says hello from Fiend Folio!

ECL 5, LA 3, Racial Hit Dice 2. Incarnate to make this bad boy an ECL 3.

LA 1, with 2RHD and you get

+10 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma, and the Large size and a some other goodies to go with it.

(This is just a guess based on a statted out creature, since the actually ability adjustments aren't flat out listed.)

It's 3E, they hadn't really standardised players customising the stats of monster PCs yet. They expected you to just run it as-is with the stats listed in the FF, which only really works in a game that uses the Elite Array.

You also get the Giant type and the qualities associated with it, but you lose the feats and skill points that the Maug had. Incarnate Construct sucks a bit like that.

[Urpriest]

The Maug says hello from Fiend Folio!

ECL 5, LA 3, Racial Hit Dice 2. Incarnate to make this bad boy an ECL 3.

LA 1, with 2RHD and you get

+10 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma, and the Large size and a some other goodies to go with it.

(This is just a guess based on a statted out creature, since the actually ability adjustments aren't flat out listed.)

The statted creature inherently lists its ability adjustments. They are by definition the ability scores -10 if even and -11 if odd. There's no other way to determine them unless the creature explicitly uses a different base arry.

[The Insaniac]

Why would the order matter? Just because negative LA isn't defined in the rule, doesn't mean that the creature wouldn't have -2 LA.

[AuraTwilight]

The order matters because LA -- plus LA -2 is still LA --.

[Dr. Azkur]

The order matters because LA -- plus LA -2 is still LA --.

That's not the problem at all. In Savage Species (Source for Incarnate Construct) some Golems are given LA.

Besides "LA —" + "LA +3" is also "LA —"

[AuraTwilight]

Oh right, I forgot about the Golem LA thing. Though my thought was complete anyway.

To put it another way, the order matters because having negative LA is as nonsensical as having a negative ability score. How would that be represented, getting bonus XP?

[OldTrees1]

Oh right, I forgot about the Golem LA thing. Though my thought was complete anyway.

To put it another way, the order matters because having negative LA is as nonsensical as having a negative ability score. How would that be represented, getting bonus XP?

MM Kobolds were mentioned in a web enhancement as being too weak for a +0LA. If Kobolds were -1LA, and if the game allowed negative LA then a ECL 4 Kobold would have 5 class levels. (not bonus xp unless you meant being a level ahead per negative LA)

[Karnith]

Why would the order matter? Just because negative LA isn't defined in the rule, doesn't mean that the creature wouldn't have -2 LA.
The order matters because Incarnate Construct is "Level Adjustment: -2 (minimum 0)." It cannot reduce a creature's LA below zero. Hence, to actually reduce a creature's LA, the creature must have a LA greater than zero before the application of the Incarnate Construct template.