Stacking RHD and class levels past ECL 20 [3.5]

[JW86]

Hello Playgrounders,

If I were to create an NPC that had, let's say, 10 RHD in "Outsider", and 15 classes in "Psychic Warrior", at what point would I stop stacking BAB bonuses, save bonuses, etc. ?

Would it be once hitting an effective level 20, i.e. 10 Outsider/10 Psychic Warrior, so that any class levels taken after that would be subject to the epic rules progression on attack bonus, save bonus, etc?

Or do the epic rules only come into effect after taking 20 class levels? So effectively Outsider 10/Psychic Warrior 15 would benefit from the full attack bonus, saves etc, of both?

Thanks. :smallcool:

[Urpriest]

Whether you count as Epic or not depends on your Character Level, not your ECL. (ECL is irrelevant for NPCs anyway, in general). As you recall, Character Level is your total number of hit dice, no matter where they come from. So your character switches into Epic rules once they pass Outsider 10/Psychic Warrior 10.

[Karnith]

Whether you count as Epic or not depends on your Character Level, not your ECL.
Actually, monster characters become epic characters once they reach ECL 21. Per the Dungeon Master's Guide:

The epic rules in this section also work for monsters with character levels, using the creature's effective character level (ECL) instead of just its class levels. For example, a bugbear (3 Hit Dice and +2 level adjustment) that is also a 14th-level fighter/3rd level blackguard is ECL 22 and thus gains an epic attack and save bonus.
There was a similar rule in the Epic Level Handbook, in a sidebar on page 25 of that book.

[Chronos]

With the small addendum that if you get more than 20 RHD, you don't switch to epic rules until you run out of racial HD. Thus, for instance, a Solar (with 23 RHD) has a 23 BAB, rather than the 20 BAB and 1 EAB that you would expect.

EDIT:


Actually, monster characters become epic characters once they reach ECL 21.
Which is problematic for a great many creatures that don't have an ECL, by virtue of being LA: --.

[Urpriest]

Actually, monster characters become epic characters once they reach ECL 21. Per the Dungeon Master's Guide:

There was a similar rule in the Epic Level Handbook, in a sidebar on page 25 of that book.

The ELH rule is different, actually. It does give access to Epic feats at ECL 21, but you still need Character Level 21 to start getting epic attack and save bonuses.

That said, the DMG rule takes precedence. It's also, as mentioned, unusable for NPCs.

[JW86]

Thank you, that helps a lot.