3.5 grappling help/advice/rules

[evilserran]

Is there any way to, using nonspeciality feats to gain multiple attacks during a grapple.

For example, i am currently playing a goliath with scorpion grasp. He is a 2 fighter, 3 ranger 1 Dragon shaman, and we are playing e6.

Currently a full round attack by me is made as one of the following:
punch > hit >grapple>armor spike
punch>miss(or failed grapple)>punch>grapple >armor spike
punch>miss>punch>miss

Is there anyway to be able to punch him twice whilst grappling and still slamming him in the ground?

My group is still real rough with the grappling rules, so they keep changing weekly as we try to figure this stuff out lol.

With my feats in theory if it were allowed i could (and have been until i realized can't make two attacks during a grapple)
punch>grapple >armor spike >punch> grapple> pin but this is not "legal" in my understanding, but i am also the highest DPS in my group at the moment, and to lose anything would suffer for battlefield control and dps.

[evilserran]

nothing? 22 hours and not a single post/hint/suggestion/correction? when i get home i will post my actual feat chain, maybe that will help.

[Gwendol]

I don't know what you mean by "nonspeciality feats"?

My answer to your question will be a general "no". You normally don't attack in a grapple due to the -4 to the roll, but rather exchange that for damaging in a grapple using an opposed check.

Your build, just checking the classes you've listed, is not optimal for grappling. Not that its non-functional or anything, but you can do better. Dropping ranger for barbarian would go a long way.

[evilserran]

oops yea, actually i forgot i dropped 1 level ranger for barbarian. I currently have a +20 to my check, more when i go home.

[Gwendol]

Please post the build, when you can.

[Darrin]

Is there anyway to be able to punch him twice whilst grappling and still slamming him in the ground?


No. Without BAB +6, you don't get a second iterative attack. So while you could use the "Attack Your Opponent" or "Damage Your Opponent" option more than once if you had a high enough BAB, you don't have a high enough BAB (and it won't be getting any higher in E6).

If you took a level in a full BAB class instead of a level in Dragon Shaman, then you could "Attack Your Opponent" twice with a -4 penalty, or use "Damage Your Opponent" twice for two grapple checks.

If you had BAB +6 and Scorpion's Grasp... then you could:

1) First unarmed strike hits, grapple check as free action.
2) If successful, armor spikes deal damage, and you can "Attack Your Opponent" with your second iterative unarmed strike without the -4 penalty. You do not get a second grapple attempt because you're already grappled, and Scorpion's Grasp prevents you from using "Damage Your Opponent" on the same round you started a grapple with Scorpion's Grasp.

On the following round, assuming your opponent hasn't escaped, you'd get two attempts to "Attack Your Opponent" (without the -4 penalty) or "Damage Your Opponent" (grapple check for unarmed strike damage + armor spike damage).

[Person_Man]

Rules Compendium specifies that you can make a Grapple check as an attack action. So you can make 1 Grapple check per attack (including Grapple checks made to deal damage or attack with a light weapon), or any combination of normal attacks and Grapple checks you like.

[Darrin]

Rules Compendium specifies that you can make a Grapple check as an attack action. So you can make 1 Grapple check per attack (including Grapple checks made to deal damage or attack with a light weapon), or any combination of normal attacks and Grapple checks you like.

The "Attack Your Opponent" option has text in it that specifically forbids attacking with two weapons.

But if you want to combine TWF + Scorprion's Grasp, then... don't use "Attack Your Opponent". How about:

1) Primary attack, free grapple check + armor spike damage.
2) Release opponent (free action)
3) Offhand attack, free grapple check + armor spike damage.

Next round, rinse & repeat or go for the pin.

[Gwendol]

I would go for the full BAB, whirling frenzy, option rather than TWF. Pumping the GC mod should always take priority over damaging (if you get your GC high enough, you'll win no matter what).

[evilserran]

Won't win if they are too big to grapple, which is why i want damage as well. Can't attack with two weapons, so yea, no real need for ranger, maybe swap in barbarian when i get home to play with. Should be home in 1.5 hrs then only have 4 to fix any issues. So it seems like the slam might be pointless during pin then? swap that feat out for something else maybe...

[Gwendol]

Bear totem barbarian for the bonus feat.

[Diarmuid]

The "Attack Your Opponent" option has text in it that specifically forbids attacking with two weapons.

But if you want to combine TWF + Scorprion's Grasp, then... don't use "Attack Your Opponent". How about:

1) Primary attack, free grapple check + armor spike damage.
2) Release opponent (free action)2) Offhand attack, free grapple check + armor spike damage.

Next round, rinse & repeat or go for the pin.

Bolded part I want to reference. Just because you want to release your opponent doesnt mean they want to release you. Simply "stopping" grappling isnt one of the options listed among the things you can do while grappling.

You could certainly attempt to "escape the grapple", and if your opponent doesnt want to be grappled, they could voluntarily failr the skill check...but doing so would be an attack action

[evilserran]

Build as follows (with some modifications already based on prior posts)

2 fighter, 4 bear totem barbarian. As stated is an E6 game.

Currently my grapple check is 22 to hit is +13/+8

stats are 20,13,16,11,8,8

Feats are
Fighter feat : Improved unarmed strike + weapon focus gauntlet (rp wise it is a knuckleduster)
Barbarian grants: toughness, improved grapple, and great fortitude
Feats from flaws are : Aberration blood (flexible limbs) and reckless rage
Flaws are: feeble (cause i am small for a goliath) and vulnerable (because i dont protect myself in combat)
normal feats are reckless offense, earth's embrace and scorpion grasp

[Togo]

Bolded part I want to reference. Just because you want to release your opponent doesnt mean they want to release you. Simply "stopping" grappling isnt one of the options listed among the things you can do while grappling.

Unless you take -20 on the initial grapple, so they're grappled, and you aren't.

My favourite tactic as a grappler is to disguise myself as the party wizard, and hope the monsters attack me. They grapple me, then I pin them and you have a 1 round pin.

If nothing else, watching the DM trying to justify the monster attacking the real wizard rather than me is pretty funny...