Alternate Resistance Metamagic

[prufock]

Is there a metamagic feat that changes the type of saving throw that it grants? For example, you could cast hold person as a fort negates or ref negates instead of will negates?

If there isn't, what sort of spell level adjustment do you think would be appropriate for such a spell, and why?

Would this be completely broken? I'm thinking it would have some powerful uses, but are there any negative effects I'm not foreseeing?

Some possible issues that occur to me:
Fortitude half fireballs - should rogues still get the benefit of Evasion?
Reflex partial disintegrate - similarly, should hexblade Mettle still apply?

[Cog]

I'd say it would be mostly inappropriate in so much as 3.5 tries to be a simulationist game in many respects. Fireball gets a reflex save because you're trying find a safer spot amidst the swirling flames; the effect of your Con to shrug off the damage is already reflected in that it's an HP damage effect. Alternatively, a reflex save to avoid Disintegrate makes no sense because you're already doing exactly that - that's why you get Dex to AC against the initial ray attack.

Changed saves would reflect fundamentally different spells, which would be better covered by the spell research rules than by metamagic feats.

[prufock]

I'd say it would be mostly inappropriate in so much as 3.5 tries to be a simulationist game in many respects. Fireball gets a reflex save because you're trying find a safer spot amidst the swirling flames; the effect of your Con to shrug off the damage is already reflected in that it's an HP damage effect. Alternatively, a reflex save to avoid Disintegrate makes no sense because you're already doing exactly that - that's why you get Dex to AC against the initial ray attack.

Changed saves would reflect fundamentally different spells, which would be better covered by the spell research rules than by metamagic feats.

I see your point, but at the same time this is really a description issue, isn't it? You get caught in a fireball, but through sheer force of will you ignore its effect. You get hit by disintegrate, but it only grazes you.

[pwykersotz]

I can't think of any metamagic, but I granted a player a custom feat that lets him roll Fort saves instead of Reflex. It's pretty hilarious when he rolls Fort versus a pit trap. If he succeeds he takes no damage from the fall, but he still plops right into it. He's also done it with a fireball, using sheer endurance to shrug off some of the burning.

[Deaxsa]

Undead and constructs get completely destroyed by this change. apart from that, i don't see the problem, and there are even several spells that already do this (Enveloping Cocoon, for one). There's also the Irresistible Spell Feat, which is a +10 DC for +4 levels. You could bring that down to +5 DC for +2 levels.

[SinsI]

You can give your spells a will save by using Shadow conjuration/evocation, but it will be *in addition* to normal, and if they pass it they ignore 4/5 of the damage...
Otherwise, there should be no such feat, as spells are specially made with the appropriate enemy and their strong/weak saves in mind.
If I remember correctly, there are some feats/class abilities that allow for the *defending* party to use a skill check or a different save in place of the default one.

[Uncle Pine]

To my knowledge, there is (fortunately) no such feat, but you can add extra Fortitude and Reflex saves to any spell that affects an area with these (http://dndtools.eu/feats/frostburn--68/snowcasting--2670/) four (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/flash-frost-spell--1135/) handy (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-arcane--55/energy-substitution--880/) feats (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-arcane--55/born-of-the-three-thunders--260/).

[prufock]

Undead and constructs get completely destroyed by this change. apart from that, i don't see the problem, and there are even several spells that already do this (Enveloping Cocoon, for one). There's also the Irresistible Spell Feat, which is a +10 DC for +4 levels. You could bring that down to +5 DC for +2 levels.

What if we added the condition that any immunities and special abilities still apply. A rogue that passes his fort save for an Alternate Resistance fireball would still get evasion to ignore all damage, undead/constructs would still be immune to effects that normally target Fort, mindless creatures would still ignore mind-affecting spells, and a paladin's aura of courage still grants a bonus.

With this caveat, is that the wording should be "if creatures would normally have to roll a save to resist, you can change which saving throw it uses." So while immunities and such still apply, you can target a creature's poorer saves - reflex on that disintegrate against the heavily armored fighter instead of fort.

So what level adjustment do you thing would be appropriate now? I'm thinking more than +4. The Kingdoms of Kalamar feat Irresistible Spell grants a +10 to the save DC for a +4 spell level. Meanwhile, the difference between your good and poor saves is variable, and could as much as 20.

It's probably too powerful and "swingy" to really be a good feat, truth be told. Probably better off just using Irresistible Spell.