How does Abrupt Jaunt work?

[Andezzar]

I have a question about the sequence of actions with Abrupt Jaunt and any other immediate action for that matter.

1. An opponent moves to the jaunter (less than his speed -10 feet) and attacks in melee.
When can the jaunter activate the ACF? After the movement? Before the attack roll? Unlike readied actions immediate actions do not have the rule that they actually take place before the triggering condition, so after the attack roll is useless. Could the attacker simply continue to move and then attack, since he has not attacked before the jaunt?

2. What about ranged attacks? The missile does not take any time to travel from the attacker to the target. So could the jaunter teleport between the launch of a missile and the missile hitting, thus creating an automatic miss? Or could the attacker simply adjust his aim since the teleport took place before the attack?

[DR27]

How does Abrupt Jaunt work?It doesn't.

The questions you ask aren't in the description of the ACF, and need DM adjunction in order to function. Come to a consensus before the game to avoid arguing during.

[Forrestfire]

There aren't really rules for it. Personally, I import the stack from MtG, with immediate actions playing the role of instants.

[KillianHawkeye]

I used to see Abrupt Jaunt used mainly for ruining a charge, and that was only because of the straight-line movement requirement for charging.




There aren't really rules for it. Personally, I import the stack from MtG, with immediate actions playing the role of instants.

It's interesting that you mention this. In the old days, MTG used to have interrupts in addition to instants. The difference, IIRC, was similar to D&D 4E's immediate reaction vs immediate interrupt action types. Counterspell, for example, was an interrupt. Having recently picked up Duels of the Planeswalkers 2013 on my Xbox, I see that the instants and interrupts have been combined at some point in the years since I stopped playing.

[Phelix-Mu]

There isn't really a "triggering condition" though, by my understanding. An immediate action is an interrupt, and can be announced at any time. Potentially, even after the character is aware they are going to get hit, but before they actually do. Yes, that kind of reading leads to some real stupid, but even a more restrictive reading makes it very hard to land a solid hit on the jaunter.

Note that I'm fairly certain there is a concrete step in RAW where a target for an attack is declared, but before the attack roll. Not sure how clear this is, but I've always looked at it that way. AJ pretty much guarantees that a jaunter can avoid one attack per round if it works in this manner (and that definitely seems to be how it was supposed to work by RAI).

Other things to consider:

- Can the jaunter teleport to somewhere out of line of sight? I don't recall the RAW, but I once had great fun with an infiltrator monk/wiz and teleporting to the other side of walls. Or up to the next floor. Good times.

- Is it a teleport effect? I think it is, but I don't know if it specifically says so. A number of things trigger off of or prevent teleport effects (Sun School, dimensional anchor, etc). Make sure the DM and the player iron out things about how AJ will be ruled before play starts, and that, when new problems inevitably arise, that records are kept of rulings so that they have something to refer to once someone forgets how it was ruled (which happens quite a lot in long-running campaigns).

[Deophaun]

I used to see Abrupt Jaunt used mainly for ruining a charge, and that was only because of the straight-line movement requirement for charging.
If you look at how the charge action is written, there's nothing that actually limits you to straight-line movement only; that's an extrapolation from the rules, but if the target moves during the charge, there are plenty of situations where the charger can "turn" and continue the action. The only requirements are a) unobstructed path from origin and b) must move directly to closest point. Abrupt Jaunting from one spot in an open field to another spot in that same open field won't do anything to ruin those conditions unless it takes you beyond the reach of the charger's double-move speed.

[Andezzar]

There isn't really a "triggering condition" though, by my understanding. An immediate action is an interrupt, and can be announced at any time. Potentially, even after the character is aware they are going to get hit, but before they actually do. Yes, that kind of reading leads to some real stupid, but even a more restrictive reading makes it very hard to land a solid hit on the jaunter.Yes the immediate action can be performed at any time, but since the delivery of a ranged attack takes no time, can the jaunter move between the attack and the resolution of the attack?


Note that I'm fairly certain there is a concrete step in RAW where a target for an attack is declared, but before the attack roll. Not sure how clear this is, but I've always looked at it that way. AJ pretty much guarantees that a jaunter can avoid one attack per round if it works in this manner (and that definitely seems to be how it was supposed to work by RAI).I on the other hand am pretty certain that target declaration is not a separate step. At least the attack section (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#attack) of the SRD does not mention such.


- Can the jaunter teleport to somewhere out of line of sight? I don't recall the RAW, but I once had great fun with an infiltrator monk/wiz and teleporting to the other side of walls. Or up to the next floor. Good times.No requirement for LOS or LOE is mentioned.


- Is it a teleport effect? I think it is, but I don't know if it specifically says so. A number of things trigger off of or prevent teleport effects (Sun School, dimensional anchor, etc). Make sure the DM and the player iron out things about how AJ will be ruled before play starts, and that, when new problems inevitably arise, that records are kept of rulings so that they have something to refer to once someone forgets how it was ruled (which happens quite a lot in long-running campaigns).It does not have the [Teleportation] descriptor, but the text explicitly says that the conjurer teleports.


If you look at how the charge action is written, there's nothing that actually limits you to straight-line movement only; that's an extrapolation from the rules, but if the target moves during the charge, there are plenty of situations where the charger can "turn" and continue the action. The only requirements are a) unobstructed path from origin and b) must move directly to closest point. Abrupt Jaunting from one spot in an open field to another spot in that same open field won't do anything to ruin those conditions unless it takes you beyond the reach of the charger's double-move speed.That is an interesting point. The rules indeed do not say that the charger may not turn. Since teleportation takes no time, during the whole movement the charger will move directly towards the the jaunter. This however would mean that AJ cannot ruin a charge unless you can teleport after the charge movement, but before the attack hits.

[broodax]

Well, it can still ruin a charge if you move to any space that is obstructed with respect to the space in which the charger started their charge. It is just limited in this use if you're in an open field.


Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.)

[Tar Palantir]

[QUOTE=Andezzar;16851703I on the other hand am pretty certain that target declaration is not a separate step. At least the attack section (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#attack) of the SRD does not mention such.[/QUOTE]

There are however, effects that specifically say that you can use them between the declaration of an attack but before the roll, and even after the roll but before success has been declared (mostly rerolls and things like action points for the latter). Things can explicitly happen at these points, and unspecified immediate actions can logically be declared at any point an action can be taken.

[Andezzar]

There are however, effects that specifically say that you can use them between the declaration of an attack but before the roll, and even after the roll but before success has been declared (mostly rerolls and things like action points for the latter). Things can explicitly happen at these points, and unspecified immediate actions can logically be declared at any point an action can be taken.Specific exceptions do not overwrite the problem that no time passes between those parts of an action. The immediate action can be performed at any time, not at any point.

[Phelix-Mu]

Pretty sure swift and immediate actions take the same amount of time as free actions, and are only different in terms of how often they can be performed. There is no "amount of time" necessary to pull off an immediate action.

Please correct me. This area of the rules is quite fuzzy and pretty illogical.

[Urpriest]

Compare to the Flicker mystery from Tome of Magic, which explicitly says what sorts of attacks you can avoid and how effective it is. Abrupt Jaunt fails to specify this, therefore it is incomplete and should not be used until WotC publishes errata.

[Phelix-Mu]

Compare to the Flicker mystery from Tome of Magic, which explicitly says what sorts of attacks you can avoid and how effective it is. Abrupt Jaunt fails to specify this, therefore it is incomplete and should not be used until WotC publishes errata.

Or until you talk about it with your DM. Practically speaking, one of these things can be accomplished, the other, not so much.:smallbiggrin:

[Rebel7284]

Compare to the Flicker mystery from Tome of Magic, which explicitly says what sorts of attacks you can avoid and how effective it is. Abrupt Jaunt fails to specify this, therefore it is incomplete and should not be used until WotC publishes errata.

By that metric, somewhere between 30 and 80 percent of D&D material is unusable. I assume that was sarcasm/humor. xD

[Andezzar]

Pretty sure swift and immediate actions take the same amount of time as free actions, and are only different in terms of how often they can be performed. There is no "amount of time" necessary to pull off an immediate action.

Please correct me. This area of the rules is quite fuzzy and pretty illogical.You misunderstand me. The immediate action does not need to take no time. The problem is that you have to decide when to take that immediate action. Since the attack roll and damage roll do not really take separate amounts of time, you can only take the immediate action
a) before the attack, which means that the attack has not attacked yet and thus can either adjust his aim or continue his move to get into a position where he can attack.
b) at the same time as the attack. We have no idea how that would work. Is the target in range or not?
c) after the attack, which is pointless, because the attack will have already damaged the jaunter.

[Urpriest]

By that metric, somewhere between 30 and 80 percent of D&D material is unusable. I assume that was sarcasm/humor. xD

More just bile.

In practice, this sort of thing gets fixed with houserules, yes. I just feel like a responsible game company would have noticed this sort of thing...the MTG folks figured it out, and they were for the most part quite capable of it in 4e. The guy who wrote Flicker could have just dashed off a quick email to his colleagues "hey, I figured out a way to write this in a clear manner, you guys should implement it if you do immediate action teleports in any other products".