[Pathfinder] Building a Divine Character

[DragonBaneDM]

So I'm going to be the 7th man in a party. I asked my DM if he was SURE that was okay, and he says I'm actually taking someone's place and this was his plan all along. The dude's a certified genius and is sure he can keep things together, so I trust him.

The party lineup right now is a Magus, Summoner, Druid, Barbarian, Fighter (Fallen Monk), and a Rogue. I figured something like a Cleric or Oracle would fit in well to provide heals and buffs.

My DM recommends worshiping a domain instead of a deity, is that okay in PF? The party seems fairly chaotic in alignment, and the campaign is based around a big collection of sentient artifacts.

Note: I have only played Pathfinder once. I understood it pretty well, though! I mostly play 4e, but when I play 3.5 I really enjoy being a CODzilla type Cleric. Is that sort of character possible to recreate and enjoy in Pathfinder? In general I'm just looking for cool ways to build a Divine powered character that fits well with this party makeup.

Thanks in advance! It's cool posting on a different forum once in awhile.

EDIT: Oh! And it's a low magic item setting. Item creation feats do nothing.

[ElenionAncalima]

Not to throw more into your decision, but for a divine caster with damage output, the inquisitor is always a nice option. Judgement offers a variety of combat bonus.

[DragonBaneDM]

Not to throw more into your decision, but for a divine caster with damage output, the inquisitor is always a nice option. Judgement offers a variety of combat bonus.

Oh cool! Do you think another damage source is what this party needs?

[MightyPirate]

Inquisitor buffs and heals differently than cleric and oracle but you may find the teamwork feats really shining in such a big group. I usually think of them as more skilled and less magical than your typical cleric but they can certainly bring the hurt if that's what you're after.

Oracles and Clerics are just really varied in what they can offer a party. I don't know that they're quite as potent as you may be used to from 3.5 but generally I hear druid's been nerfed harder and druids are still amazing so I doubt you'd be disappointed. If you skip a deity you instead draw power from a "divine concept." Ask you GM which domains this gives you access to.

[DragonBaneDM]

Inquisitor buffs and heals differently than cleric and oracle but you may find the teamwork feats really shining in such a big group. I usually think of them as more skilled and less magical than your typical cleric but they can certainly bring the hurt if that's what you're after.

Oracles and Clerics are just really varied in what they can offer a party. I don't know that they're quite as potent as you may be used to from 3.5 but generally I hear druid's been nerfed harder and druids are still amazing so I doubt you'd be disappointed. If you skip a deity you instead draw power from a "divine concept." Ask you GM which domains this gives you access to.

While bringing the hurt sounds cool, I think the Fighter, Rogue, and Barbarian will be able to do that. I'll ask my DM though.

EDIT: Okay I did this. And he said that those three, along with the Magus, are dealing more than enough damage. So I think I'm gonna go Cleric on this one! I'll be worshipping an idea, maybe the sun or the sea, I dunno, but I think I'll pick my domains and come up with an idea that goes along with them! So what cleric spells, feats, and abilities do you guys have experience with?

[genericwit]

If you play a cleric/oracle, make sure you prepare/know Blessing of Fervor. The spell is on the SRD, but basically it's mass haste as a level 4 spell.

It might be a good idea, given how many other characters are in the party, to focus on buffing and healing--focus on being an enabler. There's gonna be so many people attacking and doing damage anyways. Also, you have a pretty good list of battlefield control options (walls, summoning, etc), but you'll really shine by buffing the party. Specifically, look for the mass spells (like ghostbane dirge mass, blessing of fervor, etc). If you go Oracle, the Life mystery gives you some really good healing options. However, you'd probably be better off as a cleric. Don't worry about casting healing spells, you'll get better mileage and use out of channeling. Consider quick channel--it allows you to burn channels to do it as a move action, which will still give you a swift and standard to buff and cast spells.

Those would be my tips, anyway. I'd go for a cleric over the other suggestions--Oracles aren't as flexible as clerics, and the party probably doesn't need another striker/damage dealer.

[DragonBaneDM]

If you play a cleric/oracle, make sure you prepare/know Blessing of Fervor. The spell is on the SRD, but basically it's mass haste as a level 4 spell.

It might be a good idea, given how many other characters are in the party, to focus on buffing and healing--focus on being an enabler. There's gonna be so many people attacking and doing damage anyways. Also, you have a pretty good list of battlefield control options (walls, summoning, etc), but you'll really shine by buffing the party. Specifically, look for the mass spells (like ghostbane dirge mass, blessing of fervor, etc). If you go Oracle, the Life mystery gives you some really good healing options. However, you'd probably be better off as a cleric. Don't worry about casting healing spells, you'll get better mileage and use out of channeling. Consider quick channel--it allows you to burn channels to do it as a move action, which will still give you a swift and standard to buff and cast spells.

Those would be my tips, anyway. I'd go for a cleric over the other suggestions--Oracles aren't as flexible as clerics, and the party probably doesn't need another striker/damage dealer.

Okay thanks! What are some level 3 and under spells I should be on the lookout for?

[avr]

3rd level? Channel Vigor is a nice buff if it's available. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/channel-vigor Blindness is your best attack. Don't forget the standards like Dispel Magic, various status effect cures etc. though.

2nd level? Shield Other and Resist Energy keep your friends alive, Hold Person is a nice attack even if it's restricted in what enemies can be affected. Sound Burst is more widely useful even if less effective. If you get the Toppling Spell feat and a trait which reduces metamagic costs, Spiritual Weapon is an effective attack.

1st level? Protection From Evil or Shield of Faith on defence, one of
PF's variations on Command on offence.

If you worship the sea and see your character as a beachcomber type, the Flotsam (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/water-domain/flotsam) subdomain has a very nice 6th level power.

[Karoht]

2nd Level Spell-Spiritual Weapon
Fire and forget Force Damage weapon that flies around and smashes people for you, while you do stuff.
Take the feat Toppling Spell (bumping it up to a 3rd Level slot) and every time it hits it can knock down foes. Bear in mind that once your Base Attack Bonus (BAB) reaches 6 it can attack twice in a round. Thats two trip attempts. The melee players will enjoy kicking the snot out of something knocked down, and it can keep you safe in a pinch.

If you go with a Sea/Water based Cleric, take Aqueous Orb (Lvl 3).
What rolls down stairs?
Alone or in pairs?
And makes a splashety sound?
An Orb, an Orb, an Aqueous Orb!
Everyone loves Aqueous Orb!

For reals, this baby rolls around the battlefield at your command (move action, so you can use your standard action to do other things too) and picks up badguys. They take nonlethal damage (imagine being in a washing machine), and you can move the orb where ever you like. What's that? A nearby cliff? Bye bye bandits! A pit? In you go. A Sleetstorm? You can go hang out in there. Pranks? How about picking up one of your allies, tent and all, and rolling him out of camp in the middle of the night? That will teach him to borrow your toothbrush.

[DragonBaneDM]

Ah that orb sounds awesome and he lives by the sea, so maybe.

I was looking through and an Archer Cleric sounds cool! I've played full caster clerics and battle clerics by the spades. The guide I'm looking at (Tark's) says that archery is the best combat style in Pathfinder. How true is that?

Anyway, it fits the Egyptian theme I've been going for with this guy.

I was thinking about going Glory (Heroism) and Community for him. I don't know if there's a deity that has both of those, but the idea of championing his city appeals to me. Touch of Glory seems good since I'm planning on being an important figure in his Pharoah's court and we have a Barbarian so being able to unfatigue her seems good!

Thanks for the advice on spells!

[Karoht]

Ah that orb sounds awesome and he lives by the sea, so maybe.
Whoooo lives in a chapel built next to the sea?
Cleric Bob Armor Pants!


I was looking through and an Archer Cleric sounds cool! I've played full caster clerics and battle clerics by the spades. The guide I'm looking at (Tark's) says that archery is the best combat style in Pathfinder. How true is that?"Best" is arguable. Potent? On a Cleric chassis? Gives you an awesome option if you don't want to cast a spell that round.

[Spore]

I was looking through and an Archer Cleric sounds cool! I've played full caster clerics and battle clerics by the spades. The guide I'm looking at (Tark's) says that archery is the best combat style in Pathfinder. How true is that?

Pros:
- You dont have to stand next to the enemy
- high damage potential

Cons:
- Provides nothing outside damage
- expensive feat wise

Several things to mention. Cleric still has 2/3 BAB so to hit reliably you may want to prepare Divine Favor/Righteous Might etc. Other than that I wouldn't suggest high feat investment in archery. It's more of a "side thing". When the battle is under control and you do not want to waste more spells you can reduce the damage done by enemies with a bit of fire. But archery is not your main schtick. A smart mix between buffing, controlling and shaping the battlefield is your thing. You have a bow to reduce the number of minions or deal damage otherwise.

If you are in it for the damage, you should look back to the Inquisitor, they work magnificently with bows (they can reliably deal enough damage to kill the BBEG in one round themselves, just imagine Inquisitor Level /3 added in damage and to hit and auto bane on every arrow for every monster type, in addition to the regular enchantment of your bow).

I built a Cleric with Egyptian vibe a bit ago although she opposes the evil pharao and works under a hawk god of freedom, so domains were Feather and Azata. Great Perception and Sense Motive, able to cast Fly as domain spell and took Guided Hand for Wisdom on ranged attacks (Precise Shot to shoot into melee and she still had terrible to-hit on her ranged attack without spells. Other than those 4 Feat I wouldn't take any additional bow feats and concentrate on meta magic.

Another possibility would be a Battle Oracle (because heavy armor/martial weapons) but I feel that spontaneous casting is vastly inferior in a world where magic isn't available on every corner. Our Cleric is basically the centerpiece of our group since my druid died to a stupid gnoll with fighter levels. He casts Sending to talk to important NPCs, he casts Scrying to check on others, he is the only way for our party to get airborne and he one of two characters that can use CLW wands. His buffs (he is an Evangelist) enable us to hit monstrous ACs (giving +5 (+3 Inspire Courage, +2 Heroism Aura) with his first fullround action and then +2 on top (Bless and Prayer) and Blessing of Fervor (optional typeless +2)) but with him our chances and hopes die quickly. We can't detect invisible casters, we can't reach flying airships. We can't survive a gauntlet of 3-4 fights.

CoDzilla has been nerfed (no heavy armor prof., no divine metamagic, changed spells) but is still possible. But it's a choice now and will bring drawbacks in other areas with it. Meleeclerics aren't as great on saves, they lack spell slots (due to lower Wisdom) but last very long, summoners lack feats for direct combat, Undead Masters lack in physical stats due to high charisma. Clerics are Tier 1 and not because they can hit stuff very hard with their sticks.

[DragonBaneDM]

Thanks Spore! I'll make sure that I'm never totally focused on Archery. I'll shoot for a hybrid between that and a Support Cleric.

[Spore]

Thanks Spore! I'll make sure that I'm never totally focused on Archery. I'll shoot for a hybrid between that and a Support Cleric.

Don't spread yourself too thin. And if you want you can focus on archery. But it's not as smart as Cleric. A ranged Paladin is great (but I see problems with your group and their chaotic approach to things) as is afore mentioned Inquisitor.

I have been thinking about my tested concept and think that Guided Hand + high Wis is not as smart for an Archer Cleric. Basically just create it like a Melee Cleric and then change Con, Dex and Str like the following: Dex > Str > Con instead of Str > Con > Dex. I'd keep around 14-16 Wis and get the rest via Headband. (In my approach, I have 20 Wis but 10 Dex and 12 Str but the main problem is that I have to pay 2 feats to hit as good as someone with better stats for archery).

[DragonBaneDM]

Okay, so a lot of guides have been encouraging me to keep my Strength decent, at the second highest spot. Why is that? What role does Strength have in my damage as an archer?

[Bigbeefie]

I really Like an Evangelist Bard of either Travel, Luck, Madness or Trickery Domains.

Travel will help the group get around as well as help position you on the battlefield via 8th level ability....not to mention the 40 Ft movement Speed. The spell list is very good to help move around a world in a matter of seconds.

Luck has some powerful abilities as well as a killer Spell list. A favorite of Mine is to take Quicken spell like ability For Touch of Luck. It also works well with a few other domain powers. But allowing say the Magus to reroll all his D20s in the round and take the higher result is absolutely lovely to a group. Lucks spell list is good giving you miracle as your 9th level Domain spell.

I like the Trickery Domain....well more of the Deception Sub domain. Why....for 1 the Spell list gets Mirror image....this offsets the light/medium armor and sets up the power sudden shift Quiet nicely.

Sudden Shift (Sp): In the blink of an eye, you can appear somewhere else. As an immediate action, after you are missed by a melee attack, you can teleport up to 10 feet to a space that you can see. This space must be inside the reach of the creature that attacked you. You can use this power a number of times each day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Now my absolute favorite Domain is the madness domain. Its super hard to worship the God it goes with but as an Ideal...well you could work something out. What makes Madness awesome you ask? The spell list fits perfectly with a Evangelist Cleric who take spell focus- enchantment. You can literally Mentally rape someone as well as use those spell to disarm, trip, or provoke attack of opportunities. Command becomes a Combat maneuver for you from a distance. But what really is awesome is taking Quicken spell like ability- Visions of Madness. Give your Enemy +1/2 your cleric level to perception (any skill check but I say perception so they can see the ass kicking coming!), at the same time Giving them -1/2 your cleric level on Saves and attack rolls....this lasts for 3 rounds without a save to it. Walk up to them, touch them, cast defensively, and mind rape them with a spell that they have huge negatives to the save and to the attack of opportunity. Then the magus or any other caster can land Save or suck/die spells.

Here is a quick idea of a Fun Evangelist Cleric:

Human 20 point buy:
13 str, 13 dex, 14 con, 7 int, 19 wis, 10 cha

Domain- Madness

1: Improved Initiative/Combat casting
3:Spell focus- Enchantment
5:Extend Spell/Persistent spell/Bouncing Spell
7:Greater spell focus- Enchantment
9:Spell Penetration
11: Divine Interference (levels 11 & 13 are interchangeable levels)
13:Quicken spell like ability- Vision of Madness/Touch of Chaos
15:Quicken Spell

[Spore]

Okay, so a lot of guides have been encouraging me to keep my Strength decent, at the second highest spot. Why is that? What role does Strength have in my damage as an archer?

With Composite Bows, the strength modifier is added to each arrow. And mechanically shooting many arrows and missing some is more beneficial than hitting with one every round. So you get 3-5 times your strength bonus on hits per round.

A full BAB class on lv 7 gets 2 iterative attacks with Haste (+1), Manyshot (+1) and Rapid Shot (+1), meaning 5 arrows. If you then get +2 or +3 on Strength, you get 10 to 15 bonus damage.

[DragonBaneDM]

A full BAB class on lv 7 gets 2 iterative attacks with Haste (+1), Manyshot (+1) and Rapid Shot (+1), meaning 5 arrows. If you then get +2 or +3 on Strength, you get 10 to 15 bonus damage.

Okay, I see your point! Right now the best I think I can do in Strength is 15. My array came out to be 16, 10, 11, 15, 17, 12. I think that I want a higher Dex and Wis. My Cha's gonna suffer, but I'm Aasimar so I'll get better.

Also the Luck domain seems incredible. I'm not sure how I can get it to apply to my character, though. Basically his role is spiritual advisor to a large city. He's dedicated more to the ideals of citizenship and civic pride than anything else. Yeah, I can see a little luck here and there helping out, but I dunno. I was warned not to optimize too much, so I think skipping out on Luck for something fluffier might be a good way to do that.

[NightbringerGGZ]

If you can make a LG character fit with the group, then a level 7 start would be great for an Oradin build. Check out the mini guide for what is basically the best possible healer in PF.

[Spore]

May I suggest the Garuda Blood (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-aasimar) alternative attributes for the Aasimar?

Then I'd asign your stats as follows:
Str 16 Dex 19 (+2) Con 12 Int 11 Wis 17 (+2) Cha 10

makes for a good archer cleric. Push our Dex to 20 on Lv 4 and then full points into Wisdom (the last two on 16 and 20 into whatever, I suggest Int because you won't need that character past Lv 19 anyway).

You will have a very good chance to hit with arrows (if you don't stack Deadly Aim AND Manyshot on it). If you deal with many minions you woop out your Divine Favor and start shooting. It's the BBEG where the party needs your support the most. You should focus on buffing (because the Druid is way better at terraforming than you), countering evils and dispelling/banishing invisibility. Check both the druid and the cleric spell lists and see that you do not double duty on things like energy protection, stone shape or similar things.

Spell wise your best friends will be:

1st Divine Favor (gives you the difference to a full BAB class)
2nd Grace (immediate action to flee from melee) Silence (on arrows it's quite fun AC to hit a square is 10)
3rd Prayer (neat buff and debuff without save), Invisibility Purge (that invisible caster soon has an arrow on her throat)
4th Blessing of Fervor (your own Haste spell because the slots of the Summoner are limited) Airwalk (STAND in the air without Fly checks and shoot)

And that's mainly just the CRB.