Though experiment.

[Metahuman1]

So with out using mithrial, let's get a Suit of Mechanus Gear (Planar Handbook.) with a Chahar-Aina and a Dastana accessories, down to 0 Armor check penalty.

Remember, don't want mithrial. Template stacking, accessories and modifications form any first party source or any magazine are acceptable as long as source is sited and is NOT the Dungeon 105 Ceremonial Armor Template. Why? I might actually maybe wanna use this one of these days, and I can't in good frame of mind due so when I'm cutting my armor bonus in half.

[HunterOfJello]

The Chahar-Aina and Dastana are defined as being usable with "padded, leather or chain shirt armor" in their description. Do you already have a way of allowing this on Mechanus Armor, or do you need that too?

(I'm basing this off of the AE&G and OA versions.)



~~~~~~~~

My first thought is the option of Blue Ice special material from "It's Cold Outside". It gives a +1 max Dex bonus and reduces armor check penalty by 2. It's also not masterwork by default, so your Masterwork quality will decrease the penalty by another 1. (Blue Ice does have a penalty to relfex and initiative checks drawback, but if you can't use mithril it's a decent alternative.)


*edit*

Oh, and Blue Ice makes it Medium Armor too. That should improve your speed a bit.

[Metahuman1]

DM's giving me a hand wave on that one, he's more interested in seeing if with out Mithral I can get a total -12 ACP down to 0.

[OldTrees1]

So with out using mithrial, let's get a Suit of Mechanus Gear (Planar Handbook.) with a Chahar-Aina and a Dastana accessories, down to 0 Armor check penalty.

Armor templates might not be useful for your goal (since it imposes a minimum of -1 ACP on the final product)
Armor Templates:
Hellforged - improves by 1 (minimum –1).

[Darrin]

Why exactly aren't we using mithral?

The only three stackable things in 3.x that reduce ACP are mithral, Nimbleness property, and the Hellforged template.

There some materials that have the same properties as mithral. Sentira and firebrass, for example. Sentira might even be nonmetallic, if you need something treehugger-friendly.

[OldTrees1]

Special Materials(except mithral)
Blue Ice[Frostburn Excerpt] - armor check penalties are lessened by 2
Darkleaf[A&EG] - armor check penalties are reduced by 2
Dragoncraft[Draco] - Armor check penalties are reduced by 2 (including the 1-point reduction for masterwork armor or shield)
Entropium[A&EG] - The armor check penalty of the armor increases by 2 for Strength-related skills (Climb and Jump) and decreases by 2 for Dexterity-related skills
Glassteel[RoF] - armor check penalties are decreased by 3
Leafweave, Elven[A&EG] - armor check penalties are reduced by 2
Living Metal[MoF] - reduce the armor check penalty by 1
Shadow Silk[ToM] - armor check penalties are lessened by 2 (to a minimum of 0)
Wildwood[RotW] - armor check penalty is reduced by 1 (minimum 0)


So Hellforged +1 Nimbleness _armor type_ made from Glassteel has an armor check penalty reduced by 6 (minimum -1)

[HunterOfJello]

I think the Hellforged template actually does the opposite of what you two seem to be implying. While the word "improves" is used, the description is referring to "improve" as the opposite of "reduce". An armor that normally has a -1 armor check penalty would have a -2 penalty if it had the Hellforged template.

The armor is heavier. It reduces the max dex bonus and makes casting spells more difficult.

i.e. Hellforged is the opposite of what we're looking for

[OldTrees1]

I think the Hellforged template actually does the opposite of what you two seem to be implying. While the word "improves" is used, the description is referring to "improve" as the opposite of "reduce". An armor that normally has a -1 armor check penalty would have a -2 penalty if it had the Hellforged template.

The armor is heavier. It reduces the max dex bonus and makes casting spells more difficult.

i.e. Hellforged is the opposite of what we're looking for

Upon rereading, I believe you are correct that the author intended for the penalty imposed to increase. Their use of improve was poorly chosen.

If Hellforged is ruled to not decrease the penalty, then the current decrease is 5.

[Metahuman1]

Doesn't the only none third party dragonlance book have a way to cut it by like 5?

[OldTrees1]

Doesn't the only none third party dragonlance book have a way to cut it by like 5?

DragonlanceCampaignSetting has:
Dragonmetal - reduce by 3

[Metahuman1]

Isn't there also the Item of Legend or something that reduces it by -5?

[Telonius]

Two feats might help: Heavy Armor Optimization and Greater Heavy Armor Optimization, both from Races of Stone. Collectively they'll decrease you ACP by 3 whenever you're wearing heavy armor.

EDIT: Crystal of Aquatic Action (Magic Item Compendium) negates Armor Check Penalty entirely (for the Swim skill only). :smallbiggrin:

[Metahuman1]

Hm, so, since it's starting to look like this doesn't work with out Mithril, let's see if it does with Mithril.

Also, found this and it might be of some help. http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12795

[Captnq]

Why you using that crappy armor?

THAALUD STONE ARMOR
- ANAUROCH: THE EMPIRE OF SHADE (3.5)
Heavy Armor
[Stone]
Cost: 2,800 gp
Armor Bonus: +12
Max Dex Bonus: +0
Armor Check Penalty: -8
Arcane Spell Failure: 40%
Speed: 20 ft/15 ft
Weight: 180 lbs
CHAHAR-AINA
- ORIENTAL ADVENTURES (3.0) (3.5 Update)
Other Armor
[Metal]
Cost: 75 gp
Armor Bonus: +1
Max Dex Bonus: N/A
Armor Check Penalty: -1
Arcane Spell Failure: 5%
Speed: N/A
Weight: 10 lbs
DASTANA
- ARMS AND EQUIPMENT GUIDE (3.0)
- ORIENTAL ADVENTURES (3.0)
Other
[Metal]
Cost: 25 gp
Armor Bonus: +1
Max Dex Bonus: N/A
Armor Check Penalty: -1
Arcane Spell Failure: 5%
Speed: N/A
Weight: 5 lbs


Now then, This does require some hand waving. After all, Dastana and Chahar-Aina do not work with Thaalud Stone Armor, but lets assume it does.

I make both the Dastana and Chahar-Aina masterwork. So the ACP for those two items drop to 0. Onto the Stone Armor

Glasssteel gives us a -3. Heavy Armor Optimization and Greater Heavy Armor Optimization give us another -3 Nimbleness gives us another -2.
Oh, and let's throw in halfweight, so it's now light armor and can be slept in.

Look like you are wearing a stone golem as a suit, but breathes like Egyptian cotton.

Final Score:
Armor Bonus: +12
Max Dex Bonus: +3
Armor Check Penalty: -3 (0 with the feats)
Arcane Spell Failure: 20%
Speed: 30 ft/20 ft
Weight: 81 lbs

Much better then your mechanic gear.

[OldTrees1]

Hm, so, since it's starting to look like this doesn't work with out Mithril, let's see if it does with Mithril.



Glassteel is just as effective as Mithral (reduce by 3)

[Metahuman1]

Why you using that crappy armor?

THAALUD STONE ARMOR
- ANAUROCH: THE EMPIRE OF SHADE (3.5)
Heavy Armor
[Stone]
Cost: 2,800 gp
Armor Bonus: +12
Max Dex Bonus: +0
Armor Check Penalty: -8
Arcane Spell Failure: 40%
Speed: 20 ft/15 ft
Weight: 180 lbs
CHAHAR-AINA
- ORIENTAL ADVENTURES (3.0) (3.5 Update)
Other Armor
[Metal]
Cost: 75 gp
Armor Bonus: +1
Max Dex Bonus: N/A
Armor Check Penalty: -1
Arcane Spell Failure: 5%
Speed: N/A
Weight: 10 lbs
DASTANA
- ARMS AND EQUIPMENT GUIDE (3.0)
- ORIENTAL ADVENTURES (3.0)
Other
[Metal]
Cost: 25 gp
Armor Bonus: +1
Max Dex Bonus: N/A
Armor Check Penalty: -1
Arcane Spell Failure: 5%
Speed: N/A
Weight: 5 lbs


Now then, This does require some hand waving. After all, Dastana and Chahar-Aina do not work with Thaalud Stone Armor, but lets assume it does.

I make both the Dastana and Chahar-Aina masterwork. So the ACP for those two items drop to 0. Onto the Stone Armor

Glasssteel gives us a -3. Heavy Armor Optimization and Greater Heavy Armor Optimization give us another -3 Nimbleness gives us another -2.
Oh, and let's throw in halfweight, so it's now light armor and can be slept in.

Look like you are wearing a stone golem as a suit, but breathes like Egyptian cotton.

Final Score:
Armor Bonus: +12
Max Dex Bonus: +3
Armor Check Penalty: -3 (0 with the feats)
Arcane Spell Failure: 20%
Speed: 30 ft/20 ft
Weight: 81 lbs

Much better then your mechanic gear.

... *blinks*

You sir, are a freaking genius! I love you, challenge completed!

[Telonius]

It would actually get better AC than that with the feats; +2 if you use both.

[Darrin]

Now then, This does require some hand waving. After all, Dastana and Chahar-Aina do not work with Thaalud Stone Armor, but lets assume it does.


More of a house rule than a handwave. Dastana and Chahar-Aina are pretty explicit in what armors they work with.



Glasssteel gives us a -3. Heavy Armor Optimization and Greater Heavy Armor Optimization give us another -3 Nimbleness gives us another -2.


Thaalud stone armor has to be made out of a special material already: thaalud stone. You can't make it out of glassteel. Even if you could, this drops the weight category down to medium armor, at which point Heavy Armor Optimization won't work.



Oh, and let's throw in halfweight, so it's now light armor and can be slept in.


Again, won't work with Heavy Armor Optimization. And the Restful property (500 GP, Dungeonscape) is cheaper.

[OldTrees1]

Mechanus Gear -10
Masterwork: 1 better ACP
Wildwood: 1 better ACP, remains Heavy Armor, -1 AC, +1 Max Dex, Races of the Wild
Item of Legend: 5 better ACP, +750 gp, War of the Lance p23 (won't load for me so I could not double check)
+1 Nimbleness 1 better ACP
Greater Heavy Armor Optimization 3 better ACP, 2 feats, Races of Stone
Total: 6-11 better