PF Help picking what to play for first PFS game

[Bigbeefie]

Typically I play Pathfinder with the same guys for years. Our group is to the point it meets 1-2 times a month and I wanted more play as Pathfinder is one of my biggest hobbies. I just love solving mysteries and exploring dungeons. So I took a step to join up with for Pathfinder Society Player 2x a month. I have never played Society but have read over the rules on what is different about it as opposed to regular house play. But I am shaky on a few things:

First I am am shaky on the you don't keep the loot you find but rather buy it later from a pool of available to buy items. Is the gold going to be plentiful enough to afford a more expensive class or is it better to stick towards mundane classes that need less costly items?

Second from what I am getting is that new "adventure" happens each time you play in the society play. So i am assuming you will not have the same group so trying to find the Balancing character is near impossible. Am I right on this Assumption?

Thirdly Based on 1 & 2 above I have drawn up 3 Character and can not for the life of me pick which will be best to run. Each has different wealth needed to run at optimal levels but each one costing less per build. Perhaps I can lay out the character and with a little help with questions 1 and 2 and the communities input I can nail down which character would be the best and most solid choice to make my first Pathfinder society character to grind to death. =) so hear they are presented in order of most expensive to run to cheapest to run.

Character 1:

Dervish Dancer Elf Magus:
Str: 10, Dex:18, con:12, Int: 18, Wis: 9, Cha: 7

Trait 1: Magical Lienage- Shocking Grasp
Trait 2: +2 trait bonus to Concentration checks (forget name)

Elf Alternated Feature: Arcane Focus- +2 concentration checks casting defensively

Feats and (Arcana)
** Trait + Elf feature gives +4 Concentration checks = Combat casting
1: Weapon Finesse
3: Dervish Dance
(3: Arcane Accuracy)
5: Weapon focus- Scimitar
5:Arcane Strike
(6: Empowered Magic)
7: Intensify Spell
(9:Arcane Edge)
9: Lunge
(10: Spell blending- Heroism & Resist Energy) *Learned through Elf Favored
11:Improved Critical -Scimitar
11: Weapon Specialization -Scimitar
(12: Maximized Magic)

This guy is a Damage Brute but Because he is a Prepared caster, and Frontline fighter I would be spending gold on Melee weapon (+1 spellstoring scimatar), Armor (Mithral at least), Spells for the spell book (2 a level isn't enough to be effective), Wondrous items, consumables, and Rods (lesser extend specifically).
But balancing Combat items with casting items can be outright expensive as casters tend to be the more expensive characters unless you cast spontaneously. My worry is there will not be a lot of Gold to purchase the items necessary for him to be working at good efficient levels.

Character number 2:

Tiefling Grenadier Alchemist
Str:10, Dex:18, Con:12, Int:18, Wis:10 Cha:6

Trait 1: Accelerated Drinker
Trait 2: Pragmatic Activator (Uses Int for UMD instead of Cha)

Alternate Race Traits: Scaled Skin- Resist Fire 5 and +1 NA, Prehensile Tail- Gain a tail to grab stowed objects. (helps action economy)

Feats and (Discoveries)
1- Martial Weapon proficiency- Longbow (grenadier ability)
1-Precise Shot
(2- Precise Bomb)
(2- Frost Bomb)
3- Point Blank Shot
(4- Infusion)
5- Arcane Strike
(6- Wings)
7- Rapid Shot
(8: Fast bombs)
9- Deadly Aim
(10- Force Bomb)
11- Many Shot
(12- ????)

This guy is suppose to put out good Bomb damage and good Arrow damage. He is Focused on Bomb damage with plenty of skill to back him up with a Bow so he doesn't Burn through all his bombs too fast. This guy needs slightly less gold then a Magus but comes not far behind him on costs to run.

I've never ran a Alchemist and this was my first attempt at one. I wanted a mid to further range and focus on going the route of Death from Above with the Wings discovery...also adds flavor to the tiefling.

If your experienced with Bomber alchemist I will also take suggestions on a few fixes as well as what the heck to take at 12th level.


Character Number 3:

Human Bard
Str:13, Dex:17, Con:10, Int:10, Wis:10, Cha:16

Trait 1: Finding Haleen: +1 HP and +1 Skill each level for favored class
Trait 2: Hunter's Eye- Longbow proficiency and no penalties on 2nd range

Faction Chosen: Andoran

No alternate Race features

Feats:
H- Presice Shot
1- point blank shot
3- rapid shot
5- arcane strike
7- deadly aim
9- many shot
11- spell focus- enchantment

Perform skill 1: Oratory
Perform skill 2: Dance
Perform skill 3: Act (taken around 5th level)

Skills to max:
UMD, Spell craft, Perception

OK I have never played a Bard....of any type in any edition. I typically shy away from Charisma based character other then my typical go to Dragon Disciple. I typically play full casters of the INT and WIS variety. But I feel gearing this guy would be less expensive then both a Magus and a Alchemist.

SO some help with this one would much be needed as I feel maybe this build could be stronger. I want him to focus on Archery and his casting/performances. Pointers? Suggestions? Is he Viable?

Any help, insiders, Pointers, and suggestions would be helpful as I like to be prepared and plan my characters out so I can focus on doing my role very well and not be the dead weight of a party.

[khachaturian]

a few quick observations
1. arcane strike can probably go because you have better things to do with your swift action. weapon specialization is kind of underwhelming compared to your expected damage output. would look at quicken and spell penetration, especially if you are planning on picking up spell perfection at 15.

3. all the archery feats seem kind of excessive. maybe max intimidate and pick up dazzling display. lingering song, spellsong, discordant voice may be worth looking into. while i think that the strength of the bard spell list is all the immediate action denial spells, more metamagic might help

[Bigbeefie]

a few quick observations
1. arcane strike can probably go because you have better things to do with your swift action. weapon specialization is kind of underwhelming compared to your expected damage output. would look at quicken and spell penetration, especially if you are planning on picking up spell perfection at 15.

3. all the archery feats seem kind of excessive. maybe max intimidate and pick up dazzling display. lingering song, spellsong, discordant voice may be worth looking into. while i think that the strength of the bard spell list is all the immediate action denial spells, more metamagic might help

1. For the Magus being a elf is built in Spell pen basically. I was not going spell perfection as I don't know what level you retire anything in FPS so I didn't plan on seeing 15 Levels. A magus gets only 6th level spells so quicken spell would see very little use. Arcane strike and Weapon special might seem "underwhelming" but every fight does not require you to dump your resources. I might get rid of Weapon special but defiantly not arcane strike as it can help me not burn through the Arcane pool to enhance my weapon.

3. Why does archery feats seem excessive for an archery Bard? I want to do some good solid damage via Song+spells+Archery blend of combat (more to hit and damage from song and spells). I don't want to focus on meta magic on a Spontaneous caster that only gets 6th level spells. Applying meta magic would require a Full round action keeping me from doing something useful in the round. So I don't think Meta magic will help a Archery Driven Bard. And not having archery feats defeats the purpose of an Archery centered bard. I am not changing the idea of archery based combat for him.


I don't want quick observation...I want someone with Pathfinder Society Play experience to answer my first 2 questions so I can narrow down my choices.

[Meth In a Mine]

I personally don't play alchemist, but my best friend and frequent gaming friend does, and he finds alchemists to be superbly fun. I asked him, and he recommends taking smoke bomb right after precise bomb because there are a number of bomb discoveries that require smoke bomb to be taken (i.e. stink bomb, to name one).


First I am am shaky on the you don't keep the loot you find but rather buy it later from a pool of available to buy items. Is the gold going to be plentiful enough to afford a more expensive class or is it better to stick towards mundane classes that need less costly items?

Second from what I am getting is that new "adventure" happens each time you play in the society play. So i am assuming you will not have the same group so trying to find the Balancing character is near impossible. Am I right on this Assumption?


1st Question: The gold is fairly plentiful. Yes, a lot of the items are pricey, but adventures give you solid amounts of gold, and your character can get a day job (assuming you don't want to be a ridiculously lethal hobo) to further enhance their income.

2nd Question: Correct, although from my experience the event organizers will do their best to balance the parties, if multiple games are going on at once.

Hope this helps!

[Bigbeefie]

I personally don't play alchemist, but my best friend and frequent gaming friend does, and he finds alchemists to be superbly fun. I asked him, and he recommends taking smoke bomb right after precise bomb because there are a number of bomb discoveries that require smoke bomb to be taken (i.e. stink bomb, to name one).


1st Question: The gold is fairly plentiful. Yes, a lot of the items are pricey, but adventures give you solid amounts of gold, and your character can get a day job (assuming you don't want to be a ridiculously lethal hobo) to further enhance their income.

2nd Question: Correct, although from my experience the event organizers will do their best to balance the parties, if multiple games are going on at once.

I didn't know that tieflings were allowed in PFS without a boon, or am I mistaken? Regardless, a nice alternate race pick (only if you're open to changing races; you should only play what you want to play) would be a Gnome. In the APG a Gnome alchemist can take a favored class bonus that gives him 1/2 extra bombs per day (so in other words, you get an extra bomb every two levels provided you take that bonus)
Hope this helps!

The guide to PFS says you can be a tiefling...as far as a boon I did not find anywhere in the book about it. I like the Gnome alternate favored class but a Gnome offers no main stat increases. I like to pick my races based on what they bring to the class via stats. The smoke bomb idea was in my original draft of the Grenadier but since I give up poison immunities to do more with the bombs I dropped it as the later ones with cloud kill would still harm my character. I like stink bomb the -2 debuff but frost bombs offer staggered condition + damage. The character wants to be going boom like a chaotic hell spawn. Smoke bombs and stink bombs is a 2 discovery path that offers no damage to a ranged damage dealer. Tho I may resort back to it as stink cloud can make enemies loose at a slower pace via vision....but I think the Darkness spell like ability from tiefling race can work in its place. I just chose 3 elemental types with my Bombs, Fire, Frost, and Force to punch through some resistances as well as use all those archery feats to rain hell from above with arrows to supplement the limited resources of the bombs. But like you I have never played an alchemist...or a bard for that matter as I typically lean to full casters and Tier 1 classes. (wizard or clerics) I wanted to try something new and wanted them to be solid in the performance of their role/duties in a party.


As far as gold being plentiful and ever changing groups that puts me a little at ease and swings me back towards the Magus which I am comfortable playing as I really like the class as a whole. I've played a STR based magus before in the Skulls and shackles AP and was ending boss fights in the first 3 books within 1-2 rounds in a 2 man party paired with a Mystic Theurge partner. So I know the class will perform well regardless of whats really thrown at it in the lower levels.

Thanks for your answers on the questions and the suggestion on the alchemist. I've read all the aviliable guides on the classes and all the alchemist guides say stink bomb is the bees knees for an anvil/debuffer style of play. I will further consider it.

[NightbringerGGZ]

Question 1
As for the loot, it is kind of weird. Any loot you find you can use during that module. At the end of the module your GM will tell you how much gold you've earned and will give you a list of specific items you found which can be purchased with that gold.

This means it is best to use any consumable's you've found during the adventure. If you really want an extra at the end of the adventure you can buy it with gold. For instance, my first adventure gave me a couple hundred gold and we found a map that granted a bonus on survival checks, but only in the region where the adventure took place. I chose not to buy it =P.

Question 2
Who you play with will depend on your lodge. Many lodge's have the same group of people show up consistently, and in this case you can plan out your character with other players. My nearest lodge only meets every couple of months and you never know who will show up. Most adventures can be completed in one afternoon so long as nobody holds up the group.

Build Advice
Remember that you will have 3 adventures before you hit level 2, and that these can be deadly. Also remember that you are allowed to completely rebuild your character between levels 1 and 2.

You could build your Magus with a Strength focus for first level, then switch to a Dex build at second. I'm a fan of Humans over Elves as you don't need an 18 Int with a Magus and with a planned rebuild you can grab Dervish Dance at level 2. I don't mind Arcane Strike on the Magus btw. You won't use it every round of combat but it will come into play.

For your Grenadier character consider picking up Explosive Arrow at level 4 and using a Heavy Crossbow. This lets you fire one attack each round without having to grab Rapid Reload, and when you hit your bomb explodes as normal. You then have the option of picking up the Kirin Style feat chain to add double your Int on that attack, effectively gain x3 Int. With the targeted bomb admixture that's x4 Int, at the cost of your splash damage. It's not a bad build at all, though you may want to dip fighter at some point for the bonus feat. Edit: Btw, the Tiefling favored class bonus of 1/2 your level as bonus damage on bomb attacks is nice!

I'm a huge fan of archer bards, but I would tweak your build a bit. A 12 Con is generally considered the minimum for a PFS character, and since you may want to drop your Cha and/or Wis a bit to boost your Strength. Buff up your group and hit for decent (though not spectacular) damage each round. You may want to consider the Arcane Duelist archetype as you gain a bunch of free bonus feats that are rather nice. A 2 level dip (or start) into Paladin is often a good choice for Bards.

[Meth In a Mine]

Question 1
Also remember that you are allowed to completely rebuild your character between levels 1 and 2.

What do you mean? You mean like change class, or is it just things like skills?

The guide to PFS says you can be a tiefling...

Ah. I didn't read the PFS guide very thoroughly, nor had I ever seen anyone play as a tiefling in PFS. My bad.

Fire bombs seem like a good pick, since you never know when a troll is gonna get up in your grill.

Happy Gaming!

[NightbringerGGZ]

What do you mean? You mean like change class, or is it just things like skills?


Ah. I didn't read the PFS guide very thoroughly, nor had I ever seen anyone play as a tiefling in PFS. My bad.

Fire bombs seem like a good pick, since you never know when a troll is gonna get up in your grill.

Happy Gaming!

For the rebuild you'll need to read the rules for specifics, but from what I remember you're basically free to rebuild your character as you see fit once (prior to your first level 2 session) and keep your progress. Since PFS brings in many players who are new to Pathfinder this gives them 3 games to figure out if they actually like a class or if they made bad choices with their build. It also helps out with some builds that have a really rough first level start.

[Bigbeefie]

Question 1
As for the loot, it is kind of weird. Any loot you find you can use during that module. At the end of the module your GM will tell you how much gold you've earned and will give you a list of specific items you found which can be purchased with that gold.

This means it is best to use any consumable's you've found during the adventure. If you really want an extra at the end of the adventure you can buy it with gold. For instance, my first adventure gave me a couple hundred gold and we found a map that granted a bonus on survival checks, but only in the region where the adventure took place. I chose not to buy it =P.

Question 2
Who you play with will depend on your lodge. Many lodge's have the same group of people show up consistently, and in this case you can plan out your character with other players. My nearest lodge only meets every couple of months and you never know who will show up. Most adventures can be completed in one afternoon so long as nobody holds up the group.

Build Advice
Remember that you will have 3 adventures before you hit level 2, and that these can be deadly. Also remember that you are allowed to completely rebuild your character between levels 1 and 2.

You could build your Magus with a Strength focus for first level, then switch to a Dex build at second. I'm a fan of Humans over Elves as you don't need an 18 Int with a Magus and with a planned rebuild you can grab Dervish Dance at level 2. I don't mind Arcane Strike on the Magus btw. You won't use it every round of combat but it will come into play.

For your Grenadier character consider picking up Explosive Arrow at level 4 and using a Heavy Crossbow. This lets you fire one attack each round without having to grab Rapid Reload, and when you hit your bomb explodes as normal. You then have the option of picking up the Kirin Style feat chain to add double your Int on that attack, effectively gain x3 Int. With the targeted bomb admixture that's x4 Int, at the cost of your splash damage. It's not a bad build at all, though you may want to dip fighter at some point for the bonus feat. Edit: Btw, the Tiefling favored class bonus of 1/2 your level as bonus damage on bomb attacks is nice!

I'm a huge fan of archer bards, but I would tweak your build a bit. A 12 Con is generally considered the minimum for a PFS character, and since you may want to drop your Cha and/or Wis a bit to boost your Strength. Buff up your group and hit for decent (though not spectacular) damage each round. You may want to consider the Arcane Duelist archetype as you gain a bunch of free bonus feats that are rather nice. A 2 level dip (or start) into Paladin is often a good choice for Bards.

Thank you for the advice.

Especially the free level 1 character retraining before level 2. I like the Idea of Being a switch hitter Fighter at level 1 (power attack, quick draw, deadly aim/rapid shot) and then right before starting level 2 Switching to a Weapon finesse, dervish dancer human magus or a archery Bard. Sounds like a niffy idea as everyone Knows STR character with big HP pools win first level encounters in pathfinder.

I think I am going to Leave the Alchemist on back burner for now and try him out some place else. I love the flavor and idea of him but I tend to favor things that actually cast spells....and the no Brew potion/craft feats in PFS really sucks IMO.

As far as the bard do you have a few feat suggestions as well? or can offer a sample build? But without the Paladin dip if you can as I tend to never play Lawful characters as I tend to love to bend rules and break people.

[NightbringerGGZ]

Thank you for the advice.

Especially the free level 1 character retraining before level 2. I like the Idea of Being a switch hitter Fighter at level 1 (power attack, quick draw, deadly aim/rapid shot) and then right before starting level 2 Switching to a Weapon finesse, dervish dancer human magus or a archery Bard. Sounds like a niffy idea as everyone Knows STR character with big HP pools win first level encounters in pathfinder.

I think I am going to Leave the Alchemist on back burner for now and try him out some place else. I love the flavor and idea of him but I tend to favor things that actually cast spells....and the no Brew potion/craft feats in PFS really sucks IMO.

As far as the bard do you have a few feat suggestions as well? or can offer a sample build? But without the Paladin dip if you can as I tend to never play Lawful characters as I tend to love to bend rules and break people.

I don't have the list of what's PFS legal in my head, so you'll want to run your builds by the folks on the Paizo forums. Since you mentioned you like Switch Hitting though, how about going bard with the Dawnflower Dervish archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/dawnflower-dervish)?

Unless there was an update made while I wasn't looking, Battle Dance doesn't actually replace any class abilities. This means you can choose to use either normal Bardic performances to buff your allies or a Battle Dance to grant a doubled bonus to yourself. Cheesy but I'm pretty sure it's legal.

This means that as a Human you could start with Dervish Dance, Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot at first level. Go with a 14 Str, 18 Dex, 12 Con, 10 Int, 10 Wis and 13 Cha and plan on buying a Composite Shortbow ASAP. With Battle Dance you'll have attack bonuses that parallel a full BAB class and pretty decent damage bonuses. Pick up Power Attack and Deadly Aim (in what ever order you desire).

You'll be able to buff the party with spells or performances and will have the basic feats for dealing mundane damage. If you Battle Dance you'll be able to dish out fairly good damage, and with the ability to switch hit there should be few encounters you can't contribute effective damage to. You'll also have a decent number of skills, which is important in PFS.

[Bigbeefie]

I don't have the list of what's PFS legal in my head, so you'll want to run your builds by the folks on the Paizo forums. Since you mentioned you like Switch Hitting though, how about going bard with the Dawnflower Dervish archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/dawnflower-dervish)?

Unless there was an update made while I wasn't looking, Battle Dance doesn't actually replace any class abilities. This means you can choose to use either normal Bardic performances to buff your allies or a Battle Dance to grant a doubled bonus to yourself. Cheesy but I'm pretty sure it's legal.

This means that as a Human you could start with Dervish Dance, Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot at first level. Go with a 14 Str, 18 Dex, 12 Con, 10 Int, 10 Wis and 13 Cha and plan on buying a Composite Shortbow ASAP. With Battle Dance you'll have attack bonuses that parallel a full BAB class and pretty decent damage bonuses. Pick up Power Attack and Deadly Aim (in what ever order you desire).

You'll be able to buff the party with spells or performances and will have the basic feats for dealing mundane damage. If you Battle Dance you'll be able to dish out fairly good damage, and with the ability to switch hit there should be few encounters you can't contribute effective damage to. You'll also have a decent number of skills, which is important in PFS.

I love the Archetype even if I loose Bardic Know and Lore. I think I'm going to go with it and give my first bard a shot. I like how the dance doesn't have to be Melee. =) That means I can focus on Archery as the main source of damage and have dervish dancing for free if melee happens to arise. But I want his spells to be more effective then his melee ability...I kind of want melee to be a last resort after a Hail of arrows or a spell. Let me know what you think and offer a few suggestions to my build.


Human Dawnflower Dervish
20 point buy: Str: 14, Dex: 17, Con: 12, Int & Wis: 8, Cha: 16
( Level 4 increases Dex and Level 8 & 12 in Cha)

Trait 1: Finding Haleen (+1 HP & Skill point each Level)
Trait 2: Hunter's Eye: Longbow (Longbow Proficiency and No penalties for first range increment)

Free Feat: Dervish Dancing
Human feat: Precise Shot
1st level feat: Point blank Shot
3: Rapid Shot (All basic archery feats)

5: Arcane Strike (??Deadly Aim??- I'm worried about my to hit and figure Arcane strike gives bonus damage to both archery and Melee if I should ever have to swing my scimitar since Power attack would be wasting a feat basically.)

7: Spell Focus- Enchantment ( I want to up my spell casting ability with my Higher Cha)

9: Many Shot (More arrows is more damage. Longbow with gravity Bow wand You are firing Great swords...1 more great sword is nice to throw out.)

11: Spell Pen (Again I want my spells to be of some relevance and this is the level to get spell pen)


Skills: -Since I don't have Bardic Know should I skip picking a lot of Knows and focus on 1 or 2?

Skills I will be taking:

Use magic Device, Perform (Dance), Perform (Sing), Perception, Diplomacy

I still get 2 more skills a Level and wondering where I should put them. Spell craft and Know skills run off Int and mines kinda janky. But spell craft is awesome. What know skills should I grab if I take it? Another skill to think about is Escape artist and Stealth. I know with invis stealth is easy but skill points in it always help.

My well versed Progression will me: Dance, Sing, ????