Da Beast
2014-01-24, 07:56 PM
So I'm playing a Scout Sorcerer (pathfinder sorcerer so there's reason to actually level up in the class. Arcane Bloodline) in a gestalt game and trying to figure out my spell list. My character is meant to be very mobile and slippery, but scout and blood line spells give me most everything I could need on that end. I'll definitely take split ray and probably heighten spell but I'm not sure about any other meta magic.
The rest of the party is a Ranger/Rogue who intended to be a sniper assassin but ends up in melee pretty frequently anyway and a DMPC Druid/Barbarian who's mostly there for healing spells and meat shielding. The Rogue has UMD but the player isn't that experienced and the DMPC mostly prepares healing spells and combat buffs so I can't rely on anyone else to have the perfect spell for a given situation. The party is currently lvl 5 and the spells I already know are in italics. To complicate things I have a few arbitrary rules I'm following.
Rule 1: One conjuration spell of each level. May as well have a theme and it's no secret that conjuration is a great school. I'll take school power at lvl 15 (+2 to save dcs) with this school and probably spell focus as well, so I want most of my save or lose spells to be conjuration.
Rule 2: One force spell of each level. I plan on taking the Force Needle reserve feat at lvl 7 (house rule for feats at every odd lvl) so I'll need these to power the feat and just for thematic purposes.
Rule 3: No necromancy spells. Yes, I know how many great ray spells necromancy has and how well they would work with a scout gestalt but I'm going with this one anyway. As long as I'm picking a school to focus on I may as well pick one to forbid and necromancy has always seemed distasteful to me.
Finally, My bloodline gives me three bonus spells known at lvls 9, 13, an 17. I haven't decided what to do with them yet or included them on the list below.
Spells Known
The first three listed spells of each lvl (past 0) are from bloodline (can't be changed at all), a conjuration spell, and a force effect (haven't decided on one for lvl 1 yet).
Level 0
Detect Magic
Read Magic
Dancing Lights
Prestidigitation
Mending
Message
Arcane Mark
Mage Hand
Caltrops (SC)
Not much to say here. Pathfinder sorcerer rules says I can cast these at will, so may as well graffiti buildings with arcane mark.
Level 1
BL: Identify
C: Grease
Charm Person
Protection from Evil
Lesser Orb of Acid (SC) (maybe replace with magic missile at high levels for a force effect)
Silent Image (maybe Persistent Blade for a force spell (SC))
These have served me well enough so far. I'm not sure what to take for the last spell; Persistent blade would let the rogue SA away when in melee, but we have other ways of accomplishing that. Silent image would be good for utility so it's my tentative final spell for the moment. Currently I rely on LO of Acid for a spell that works with skirmish but scorching ray and maybe unicorn arrow or orb of force should make it obsolete soon. If I replace it with magic missile I'll probably pick up fell weaken of fright for low level debuffing (I know these come from Libras Mortis and are ostensibly necromancy effects, but they should work fine as transmutation or enchantment).
Level 2
BL: Invisibility
C: Glitterdust
F: Wings of Cover (RoD)
Scorching Ray
Resist Energy (or Minor Image if Silent Image isn’t taken at 1st lvl)
Ray of Stupidity (SC) (maybe Sting Ray (SC) for more general usage?)
Some utility, defense, and rays for skirmishable offense. Not sure which ray to take though and I'm not super attached to resist energy.
Level 3
BL: Dispel Magic
C: Stinking Cloud
F: Chain Missile (Many Jaws?) (SC)
Haste
??? (Melf's Unicorn Arrow? Halt for action economy? Bands of Steel? Wind Wall?)
We're using the pathfinder rules for dispel magic so it should stay relevant even at higher levels. Stinking cloud for obvious reasons and haste is great for the parkour sorcerer thing I have going as well as my weapon using team mates. I'm leaning towards Chain Missile over Many Jaws since I want to stay mobile and won't have actions to spare on concentration spells but would be willing to take something else entirely. I'm stumped on the last spell slot, Unicorn Arrow would be great with skirmish since it gets so many projectiles with one cast, but I already have scorching ray for that.
Level 4
BL: Dimension Door
C: Evard’s Black Tentacles
F: Resilient Sphere/Orb of Force (SC)/Wings of Flurry (RoD)/Thunder Lance (SC)
Greater Mirror Image (PHB2)
??? (Assay Resistance maybe?)
Tentacles for even more battle field control, but mostly for lack of a better option. Open to suggestions for my conjuration spell at this level. Orb of Force seemed like a natural choice for my force spell at this level, but I already have spells that scale better with skirmish at lvl 2 and possibly lvl 3 if I take unicorn arrow. I'd take Resilient Sphere for reflex SoL but I can't find a better 8th lvl force spell than telekinetic sphere. Wings of Flurry is kind of stupid OP so I want to stay away from it. Finally, thunderlance doesn't seem great but being able to dispell low level force effects might be useful and it works well with the master of force effects I'm going for. G Mirror Image for defense and better use of the action economy but I'm not sure what else to take at this level. Assay Resistance is a good standby I suppose but I'm open to the options. This is also the highest lvl of spell available when I get my first new arcana spell at lvl 9 and I'm already running out of stand out choices.
Level 5
BL: Overland Flight
C: Viscid Glob (Major Creation?)
F: Wall of Force
Baleful Polymorph (Feeble Mind? Worried about opening that can of worms)
Blink, Greater
Viscid Glob gives a reflex SoL, albeit only against medium or smaller enemies. Alternatively Major Creation is probably good for creative problem solving and I'm kind of leaning towards that. Wall of force would be a no brainer even without rule 2. Baleful Polymorph is always good and fits well with my character's personality. I'm considering Feeble Mind instead, but being the party's only arcanist I don't want to remind the DM that that spell exists. Finally, Greater Blink is useful for defense and with a 50 foot move speed it should let me move through most walls easily.
Level 6
BL: True Seeing
C: Freezing Fog (or Fire Spiders, but I actually need my move actions for skirmish)
F: Howling Chain (can’t really find a better force spell at this level)
Disintegrate
Freezing Fog seems like a solid battle field control spell and doesn't take up the move actions a need for skirmish, so it seems like a much better choice than Fire Spiders. Freezing Fog is also the main reason I'm taking Black Tentacles over Solid Fog at lvl 4. Howling Chain seems... not all that special really. It's only on my list because I don't know of any other force spells at this level. Disintegrate is disintegrate. I might replace this if I take sphere of ultimate destruction as a 9th lvl spell, but otherwise I'm pretty happy with this one. This is the highest level available when I get my second new arcana at lvl 13, no idea what to take for it though. Maybe contingency?
Level 7
BL: Greater Teleport
C: Stun Ray (Plane Shift?)
F: Mordenkainen’s Sword
Greater Arcane Sight (Limited Wish? Spell Turning?)
Stun Ray seems strong and I think I prefer the combination of Stun Ray and Greater Plane Shift to Plane Shift and Maze. I'm not that crazy about Mord's Sword but I don't want to take Force Cage unless I can find an alternative to Tk Sphere for my 8th lvl force spell. If anyone knows of some force spells I overlooked I'd love to hear about them. Greater Arcane Sight seems useful but I'm open to changing it.
Level 8
BL: Power Word Stun
C: Greater Plane Shift (Maze?)
F: Otiluke’s Telekinetic Sphere (only lvl 8 force spell I can find)
Mind Blank (Greater Prying Eyes? Chain Dispell? Greater Shadow Evocation?)
Greater Plane Shift for utility and SoL. I'd take Maze to combo with Ray of Stupidity but G Plane Shift sends them away anyway and I don't have the spells known to be redundant at this level. Aside from the Bigby's hand spell (which I'll be taking a better version of for 9th lvl), Tk Sphere is literally the only force spell I know of at this lvl. If anyone has an alternative I'd love to hear it. Mind Blank is always a good defensive spell, but there are lots of tempting spells at this level. I get my last new arcana at lvl 17 so I can add another spell here. I'm leaning towards Chain Dispell since between myself and the ranger/rogue we should have plenty of scouting potential without G Prying Eyes and I should only need G Shadow Evocation if I don't take contingency at lvl 6.
Level 9
BL: Wish
C: Sphere of Ultimate Destruction (Obedient Avalanche? Summon Monster 9?)
F: Bigby’s Crushing Hand
??? (Dominate Monster? Reaving Dispell? Time Stop?)
Have to have Wish for my bloodline, maybe I can convince the DM to reduce the XP cost for duplicating spells. Sphere of Ultimate Destruction seems like the best save based conjuration spell of this level, and there's no rule against using both that and disintegrate at the same time. Obedient Avalanch could be fun and Summon Monster 9 is always good, so I'm not sure about the Sphere. I'm avoiding gate intentionally since Greater Plane Shift should be sufficient for travel and I don't want to do anything too broken. Bigby's Crushing hand is the only 9 lvl force effect I know of aside from the very underwhelming Lash of Force from Complete Mage. I'm really not sure what to take for the last slot. I want something fun but not broken and really can't decide what to take.
The rest of the party is a Ranger/Rogue who intended to be a sniper assassin but ends up in melee pretty frequently anyway and a DMPC Druid/Barbarian who's mostly there for healing spells and meat shielding. The Rogue has UMD but the player isn't that experienced and the DMPC mostly prepares healing spells and combat buffs so I can't rely on anyone else to have the perfect spell for a given situation. The party is currently lvl 5 and the spells I already know are in italics. To complicate things I have a few arbitrary rules I'm following.
Rule 1: One conjuration spell of each level. May as well have a theme and it's no secret that conjuration is a great school. I'll take school power at lvl 15 (+2 to save dcs) with this school and probably spell focus as well, so I want most of my save or lose spells to be conjuration.
Rule 2: One force spell of each level. I plan on taking the Force Needle reserve feat at lvl 7 (house rule for feats at every odd lvl) so I'll need these to power the feat and just for thematic purposes.
Rule 3: No necromancy spells. Yes, I know how many great ray spells necromancy has and how well they would work with a scout gestalt but I'm going with this one anyway. As long as I'm picking a school to focus on I may as well pick one to forbid and necromancy has always seemed distasteful to me.
Finally, My bloodline gives me three bonus spells known at lvls 9, 13, an 17. I haven't decided what to do with them yet or included them on the list below.
Spells Known
The first three listed spells of each lvl (past 0) are from bloodline (can't be changed at all), a conjuration spell, and a force effect (haven't decided on one for lvl 1 yet).
Level 0
Detect Magic
Read Magic
Dancing Lights
Prestidigitation
Mending
Message
Arcane Mark
Mage Hand
Caltrops (SC)
Not much to say here. Pathfinder sorcerer rules says I can cast these at will, so may as well graffiti buildings with arcane mark.
Level 1
BL: Identify
C: Grease
Charm Person
Protection from Evil
Lesser Orb of Acid (SC) (maybe replace with magic missile at high levels for a force effect)
Silent Image (maybe Persistent Blade for a force spell (SC))
These have served me well enough so far. I'm not sure what to take for the last spell; Persistent blade would let the rogue SA away when in melee, but we have other ways of accomplishing that. Silent image would be good for utility so it's my tentative final spell for the moment. Currently I rely on LO of Acid for a spell that works with skirmish but scorching ray and maybe unicorn arrow or orb of force should make it obsolete soon. If I replace it with magic missile I'll probably pick up fell weaken of fright for low level debuffing (I know these come from Libras Mortis and are ostensibly necromancy effects, but they should work fine as transmutation or enchantment).
Level 2
BL: Invisibility
C: Glitterdust
F: Wings of Cover (RoD)
Scorching Ray
Resist Energy (or Minor Image if Silent Image isn’t taken at 1st lvl)
Ray of Stupidity (SC) (maybe Sting Ray (SC) for more general usage?)
Some utility, defense, and rays for skirmishable offense. Not sure which ray to take though and I'm not super attached to resist energy.
Level 3
BL: Dispel Magic
C: Stinking Cloud
F: Chain Missile (Many Jaws?) (SC)
Haste
??? (Melf's Unicorn Arrow? Halt for action economy? Bands of Steel? Wind Wall?)
We're using the pathfinder rules for dispel magic so it should stay relevant even at higher levels. Stinking cloud for obvious reasons and haste is great for the parkour sorcerer thing I have going as well as my weapon using team mates. I'm leaning towards Chain Missile over Many Jaws since I want to stay mobile and won't have actions to spare on concentration spells but would be willing to take something else entirely. I'm stumped on the last spell slot, Unicorn Arrow would be great with skirmish since it gets so many projectiles with one cast, but I already have scorching ray for that.
Level 4
BL: Dimension Door
C: Evard’s Black Tentacles
F: Resilient Sphere/Orb of Force (SC)/Wings of Flurry (RoD)/Thunder Lance (SC)
Greater Mirror Image (PHB2)
??? (Assay Resistance maybe?)
Tentacles for even more battle field control, but mostly for lack of a better option. Open to suggestions for my conjuration spell at this level. Orb of Force seemed like a natural choice for my force spell at this level, but I already have spells that scale better with skirmish at lvl 2 and possibly lvl 3 if I take unicorn arrow. I'd take Resilient Sphere for reflex SoL but I can't find a better 8th lvl force spell than telekinetic sphere. Wings of Flurry is kind of stupid OP so I want to stay away from it. Finally, thunderlance doesn't seem great but being able to dispell low level force effects might be useful and it works well with the master of force effects I'm going for. G Mirror Image for defense and better use of the action economy but I'm not sure what else to take at this level. Assay Resistance is a good standby I suppose but I'm open to the options. This is also the highest lvl of spell available when I get my first new arcana spell at lvl 9 and I'm already running out of stand out choices.
Level 5
BL: Overland Flight
C: Viscid Glob (Major Creation?)
F: Wall of Force
Baleful Polymorph (Feeble Mind? Worried about opening that can of worms)
Blink, Greater
Viscid Glob gives a reflex SoL, albeit only against medium or smaller enemies. Alternatively Major Creation is probably good for creative problem solving and I'm kind of leaning towards that. Wall of force would be a no brainer even without rule 2. Baleful Polymorph is always good and fits well with my character's personality. I'm considering Feeble Mind instead, but being the party's only arcanist I don't want to remind the DM that that spell exists. Finally, Greater Blink is useful for defense and with a 50 foot move speed it should let me move through most walls easily.
Level 6
BL: True Seeing
C: Freezing Fog (or Fire Spiders, but I actually need my move actions for skirmish)
F: Howling Chain (can’t really find a better force spell at this level)
Disintegrate
Freezing Fog seems like a solid battle field control spell and doesn't take up the move actions a need for skirmish, so it seems like a much better choice than Fire Spiders. Freezing Fog is also the main reason I'm taking Black Tentacles over Solid Fog at lvl 4. Howling Chain seems... not all that special really. It's only on my list because I don't know of any other force spells at this level. Disintegrate is disintegrate. I might replace this if I take sphere of ultimate destruction as a 9th lvl spell, but otherwise I'm pretty happy with this one. This is the highest level available when I get my second new arcana at lvl 13, no idea what to take for it though. Maybe contingency?
Level 7
BL: Greater Teleport
C: Stun Ray (Plane Shift?)
F: Mordenkainen’s Sword
Greater Arcane Sight (Limited Wish? Spell Turning?)
Stun Ray seems strong and I think I prefer the combination of Stun Ray and Greater Plane Shift to Plane Shift and Maze. I'm not that crazy about Mord's Sword but I don't want to take Force Cage unless I can find an alternative to Tk Sphere for my 8th lvl force spell. If anyone knows of some force spells I overlooked I'd love to hear about them. Greater Arcane Sight seems useful but I'm open to changing it.
Level 8
BL: Power Word Stun
C: Greater Plane Shift (Maze?)
F: Otiluke’s Telekinetic Sphere (only lvl 8 force spell I can find)
Mind Blank (Greater Prying Eyes? Chain Dispell? Greater Shadow Evocation?)
Greater Plane Shift for utility and SoL. I'd take Maze to combo with Ray of Stupidity but G Plane Shift sends them away anyway and I don't have the spells known to be redundant at this level. Aside from the Bigby's hand spell (which I'll be taking a better version of for 9th lvl), Tk Sphere is literally the only force spell I know of at this lvl. If anyone has an alternative I'd love to hear it. Mind Blank is always a good defensive spell, but there are lots of tempting spells at this level. I get my last new arcana at lvl 17 so I can add another spell here. I'm leaning towards Chain Dispell since between myself and the ranger/rogue we should have plenty of scouting potential without G Prying Eyes and I should only need G Shadow Evocation if I don't take contingency at lvl 6.
Level 9
BL: Wish
C: Sphere of Ultimate Destruction (Obedient Avalanche? Summon Monster 9?)
F: Bigby’s Crushing Hand
??? (Dominate Monster? Reaving Dispell? Time Stop?)
Have to have Wish for my bloodline, maybe I can convince the DM to reduce the XP cost for duplicating spells. Sphere of Ultimate Destruction seems like the best save based conjuration spell of this level, and there's no rule against using both that and disintegrate at the same time. Obedient Avalanch could be fun and Summon Monster 9 is always good, so I'm not sure about the Sphere. I'm avoiding gate intentionally since Greater Plane Shift should be sufficient for travel and I don't want to do anything too broken. Bigby's Crushing hand is the only 9 lvl force effect I know of aside from the very underwhelming Lash of Force from Complete Mage. I'm really not sure what to take for the last slot. I want something fun but not broken and really can't decide what to take.