[PF] Greater than the Sum of Their Parts

[ArcanistSupreme]

I recently started perusing the psionic classes on the PFsrd to see what all of the hulabaloo was about, and I came across the collective ability (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/vitalist#TOC-Collective-Su-), which is possessed by not one, but two classes (the Vitalist and the Tactician). It seemed like the ultimate teamwork ability, and it got me to thinking. Most of the time people build characters in a relative vacuum. Sure, they'll pick a role and try to fill it, but other than that they typically don't give too much consideration to other team members.

What would be the most synergistic themed 3-5 man party you can think of (preferably staying away from "2 wizards, a cleric, and a druid")? The idea is to create a party that is truly much stronger as a team than the power level of the individual members would suggest. What are suggested classes, races, and feats? What is the earliest level The Team could get up and running?

[watchwood]

Classically, you want a tank, a dps, a healer and a support character. In DnD this is often Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, and Wizard - though you can substitute a lot of things for a lot of other things, depending on how they're built.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Classically, you want a tank, a dps, a healer and a support character. In DnD this is often Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, and Wizard - though you can substitute a lot of things for a lot of other things, depending on how they're built.

The problem is that the classic party is probably the worst example of synergy. The party would be much better off if the two mundanes were primary casters; a Druid can melee much better than a Fighter and a Wizard can be much better at a Rogue's job than a Rogue.

What I'm looking for is more along the lines of Teamwork Feats and abusing the collective I mentioned; a team where removing any one member significantly weakens the group as a whole (more than just losing 1/4 of it's strength). To use a 3.5 example, imagine a DFI Bard, a Warchanter, and any class with full BAB. Suddenly everyone in the commoner army they are leading is throwing out full-attacks like a boss and rolling 7564136982354d6 on every hit. But remove any one of the pieces, and the trick gets a lot shakier.

Is it more clear what I'm looking for?

[Spore]

Shapeshifting Druid, Wizard, Cleric and some kind of melee oriented gish. If you want toss a (Dragonfire Inspiration) Bard in there. Congrats, you win D&D.

- Druid for battlefield control, meleeing and taking the heat (summons!)
- Wizard for superior Arcane assistance, Knowledge, Spellcraft
- Cleric for buffs, protection and all those fine spells the druid doesn't get
- Gish to add some arcane components and to attack identified weaknesses
- Bard for knowledge, further support, skills and as Face

There is no problem that group wouldn't be able to solve.

[ArcanistSupreme]

What would be the most synergistic themed 3-5 man party you can think of (preferably staying away from "2 wizards, a cleric, and a druid")?


Shapeshifting Druid, Wizard, Cleric and some kind of melee oriented gish. If you want toss a (Dragonfire Inspiration) Bard in there. Congrats, you win D&D.

- Druid for battlefield control, meleeing and taking the heat (summons!)
- Wizard for superior Arcane assistance, Knowledge, Spellcraft
- Cleric for buffs, protection and all those fine spells the druid doesn't get
- Gish to add some arcane components and to attack identified weaknesses
- Bard for knowledge, further support, skills and as Face

There is no problem that group wouldn't be able to solve.

I'm probably not making myself very clear (I have a tendency to assume that since I can understand what I'm saying, everyone can). I understand that a party made up of primary casters can solve every problem ever. What I'm looking for is a themed party that fits together. Think about the Power Rangers and the Planeteers. Together, they are unstoppable. But take away one ranger and no megazord. Take away Heart or Water and no Captain Planet. I'm looking for parties that functions like item sets; each item provides a bonus, but when you get more items from the set, it's even better than the items would be individually. Does that make sense?

[Tulya]

Egoist Psion, Warping-Surge Wilder, Tactician, and Vitalist aren't necessarily optimal, but all produce greater effects together than viable alone.

The Psion is capable of sharing personal range powers efficiently through its Shared Effect ability, and gets earlier access to a variety of psychometabolism powers. It also acts as a repository for psionic powers and feats that other party members can borrow via Manifesting From Another's Powers Known, the Feat Leech power, and the Harmonic Resonance feat.

The Wilder has the most effective manifester boost available in PF Psionics both for itself, and also for its allies within its Warping aura effect. The Wilder can pull out not just greater numerical effects earlier, but also effects that are equivalent to higher level spells much earlier - particularly with the addition of Surge Crystals, which enhance a Wilder's surge value. Additionally, the Wilder's new ability to manifest free powers every 10 minutes by expending psionic focus and risking doubled chance of psychic enervation makes it a highly efficient buffbot. Of particular note in this party is the ability to supermax Astral Constructs and spam lower level Astral Constructs with the Advanced Construct feat menu option that changes the duration to hours/level at the low cost of -2 to attack rolls and resetting to rounds/level in-combat. They'll serve as receptacles for buffs to make them more formidable, as well as bodies to fill collectives and enhance efficiency.

The Tactician and Vitalist are Collective manifester who eventually gains a variety of potent options - manifesting powers efficiently on other collective members (Spirit of Many), copying supermaxed powers manifested by the wilder (Echo Power - Tactician), spreading Personal range powers en masse from other lists that aren't readily shared otherwise (Harmonic Resonance feat + Shared Power feat), and highly efficient healing both in and out of combat with all the bodies, especially Astral Constructs with the Fast Healing menu option (Collective Healing - Vitalist).
Prowess as One (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/p/prowess-as-one) from the Tactician can grant 5 collective members 16 BAB at 10th level per casting with the help of the Wilder's aura (for the Spirit of Many augment), and the Wilder's 16 HD Astral Construct VIII. (10th level Wilder with +3 Wild Surge and a +2 Surge Crystal).

[ArcanistSupreme]

Egoist Psion, Warping-Surge Wilder, Tactician, and Vitalist aren't necessarily optimal, but all produce greater effects together than viable alone.

Beautiful. I don't think that the power level is important, as long as each one contributes to the teamwork vibe I'm going for. They can even make a Captain Planet construct!

[grarrrg]

Throw an Order of the Staff (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/orders/paizo---cavalier-orders/order-of-the-staff) Cavalier into any party with Casters.
Target of Challenge gets a penalty to Saving throws.
Cavalier can Aid Another to boost Concentration/Dispel Check/Caster Level checks.
Cavalier gets Temp HP when spells cast on him.
Cavalier gets extra AoO's and potentially auto-confirms Crits (pair with a Blaster-type).



For the most part though, I think a party of all/mostly Mundanes could have the most _actual_ synergy.

Throw a Trip focused Flowing Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/flowing-monk) into a party with Sneak Attackers.
Any AoO's made by the Monk have a chance of Flat-Footing the victim.
Successfully Tripping a victim causes them to provoke an AoO, which gives a chance of them being flat-footed.

Tripping in general is also of great use to others, as prone targets get a -4 penalty to (melee) AC.

There's also pairing a Crit-Fishing Butterfly Sting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/butterfly-s-sting-critical) user with someone with a low-range/high-multiplier weapon.

[avr]

The Master Summoners ability to summon minions and the Bards ability to buff people synergise pretty well. Add in a Rogue with low durability and a not amazing attack bonus once you count in TWF (but high SA damage) and the minions help with flanking and drawing attacks while the Rogue takes out their leaders. Grarrrg's Flowing Monk above can control the battlefield or directly assist the Rogue.

[12owlbears]

Would fusion work with Spirit of Many? Because if it does all you need to do is have every other party member max out one of the six ability scores than fuse into one super being.

[TuggyNE]

Throw a Trip focused Flowing Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/flowing-monk) into a party with Sneak Attackers.
Any AoO's made by the Monk have a chance of Flat-Footing the victim.
Successfully Tripping a victim causes them to provoke an AoO, which gives a chance of them being flat-footed.

Where's the AoO after successfully tripping come from? As far as I can tell, attempting to trip someone without the feat provokes an AoO from your intended victim, but that's the wrong way around.

[Spore]

Where's the AoO after successfully tripping come from? As far as I can tell, attempting to trip someone without the feat provokes an AoO from your intended victim, but that's the wrong way around.

The AoO comes from trying to stand up again. Still this doesnt flat foot them.

[Prime32]

Would fusion work with Spirit of Many? Because if it does all you need to do is have every other party member max out one of the six ability scores than fuse into one super being.For that you'd need an ophiduan egoist with the Fleshbinder archetype.

[grarrrg]

Where's the AoO after successfully tripping come from? As far as I can tell, attempting to trip someone without the feat provokes an AoO from your intended victim, but that's the wrong way around.

Vicious Stomp (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/vicious-stomp-combat) is the quicker/easier one. Whenever someone falls prone you may AoO with an Unarmed Strike. Now how might we get them to fall prone...hmmm?
Greater Trip (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/greater-trip-combat---final) is a little more involved (Combat Expertise...yay...), but also causes them to provoke when they get Tripped.

Vicious Stomp is obviously better for Flowing Monk, although both should be gotten if possible, as then there are TWO chances of the Flat-Footing succeeding.


That's what I get for shooting off quick ideas, instead of more fleshed-out nonsense.

[TuggyNE]

Vicious Stomp (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/vicious-stomp-combat) is the quicker/easier one. Whenever someone falls prone you may AoO with an Unarmed Strike. Now how might we get them to fall prone...hmmm?
Greater Trip (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/greater-trip-combat---final) is a little more involved (Combat Expertise...yay...), but also causes them to provoke when they get Tripped.

Vicious Stomp is obviously better for Flowing Monk, although both should be gotten if possible, as then there are TWO chances of the Flat-Footing succeeding.


That's what I get for shooting off quick ideas, instead of more fleshed-out nonsense.

Ah, OK. I figured there was some sort of something, but I couldn't figure it out offhand.