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View Full Version : What's the RAW of Greater Humanoid Essence?



unseenmage
2014-01-25, 11:01 AM
Greater Humanoid Essence (from Races of Eberron page 186) is a Cleric 7 spell that changes a Construct's type to Humanoid for 1 round per level.
The purpose of this thread is to tease out the RAW of a few of the more problematic applications of this spell. Conjecture and 'ask your DM' are fine, but not what I'm looking for for this discussion.

I know that it can be used to put effects onto a Construct but I am unclear as to what effects, if any, remain after the duration of the spell expires.

For example, other type changing spells like Mineralize Warrior (Un) could be used on a Construct under the effects of Greater Humanoid Essence. But would the effects of Mineralize Warrior remain after the Construct became a Construct again?

Mind-affecting spells is another area I'm unsure of. Apply Greater Humanoid Essence first and one could Permanency a Telepathic Bond spell, but would the Telepathic Bond still function after?

One might Greater Humanoid Essence a Construct then make an epic Diplomacy check to make it Fanatic. Again, as a mind-affecting effect would it persist after the Construct became immune to mind-affecting again?

These are just a few of the issues I've seen. Any better/more revealing examples are welcome.

Chronos
2014-01-25, 11:16 AM
I think that a target need only be valid when an effect is applied, not continuously thereafter. But I'm not sure where that rule is laid out.

Kelb_Panthera
2014-01-25, 11:21 AM
I think that a target need only be valid when an effect is applied, not continuously thereafter. But I'm not sure where that rule is laid out.

It's not explicitly spelled out that way anywhere. The opposite isn't either, though. This is the default assumption specifically because the opposite isn't an extant rule.

unseenmage
2014-01-25, 11:30 AM
It's not explicitly spelled out that way anywhere. The opposite isn't either, though. This is the default assumption specifically because the opposite isn't an extant rule.

Would there be precedent in Mind Blank and it's effect or lack thereof on continuous mind-affecting effects? Or is that just another symptom area suffering the same conundrum?

Perseus
2014-01-25, 11:51 AM
In 3.5 if you qualify for something then you get that something. If you lose that qualifier then you lose the something.

So if you are running a magic of incarnum character and have evasion (soulmelds) you can enter a PrC that has evasion as a prerequisites. However if you unshape that Soulmeld you lose all the abilities that PrC would give you (except for Bab, saves, skill points, and hp... I think). Everything else is locked u til you meet the prerequisite for the PrC.

So I would take that logic and apply it to this situation. Anytime the construct is a humanoid it acts as if it was always a humanoid but if it becomes a construct again it looses the "prerequisite" to have those humanoid stuff effect it.

If it is a permanent effect I would say it is surpressed unless the construct becomes humanoid again.

Also does this spell effect ALL constructs... Perhaps living constructs? Make a warforged that wants to be a "real boy" and uses this spell as if it was a drug so he can become a humanoid....

I might make a BBEG like this... Perhaps he has made skin out of slain enemies so that he can be a real boy...

Hmmm

Gemini476
2014-01-25, 12:10 PM
Mineral Warrior should stick, at least - if you needed to stay the same type both before and after applying the template, then template stacking and even things like Lich or Skeleton just wouldn't make any sense whatsoever. Not to mention that Mineralize Warrior is Instantaneous.

It's weird, but still.

As for [Mind-Affecting] effects, what would happen if you cast Mind Blank on a Fanatic person? The answer should be the some as the one you are looking for, presumably.

Zanos
2014-01-25, 12:50 PM
In 3.5 if you qualify for something then you get that something. If you lose that qualifier then you lose the something.

So if you are running a magic of incarnum character and have evasion (soulmelds) you can enter a PrC that has evasion as a prerequisites. However if you unshape that Soulmeld you lose all the abilities that PrC would give you (except for Bab, saves, skill points, and hp... I think). Everything else is locked u til you meet the prerequisite for the PrC.

So I would take that logic and apply it to this situation. Anytime the construct is a humanoid it acts as if it was always a humanoid but if it becomes a construct again it looses the "prerequisite" to have those humanoid stuff effect it.

If it is a permanent effect I would say it is surpressed unless the construct becomes humanoid again.

Also does this spell effect ALL constructs... Perhaps living constructs? Make a warforged that wants to be a "real boy" and uses this spell as if it was a drug so he can become a humanoid....

I might make a BBEG like this... Perhaps he has made skin out of slain enemies so that he can be a real boy...

Hmmm
Many templates and classes provide features, notably type changes, that disqualify you for them.

That being a rule breaks a lot of stuff.