(PF) Pimping out my familiar

[SamsDisciple]

After seeing some ideas on making a fantastic familiar I was thinking of playing a character where the familiar is my character, with the classed character as just a support for my little monkey (or whatever other animal I decide on.) A few things that I would need to adjust or see if I understand the rules is 1. Do familiars gain feats as the character advances in level? If yes what kind of feats/tactics would be appropriate. If no would it be reasonable for this specific character idea to sacrifice player feats to grant a feat to the familiar. 2. Which class would be ideal for this tactic (this obviously depends on what you plan on doing as a tactic for battle) wizards/sorcerers have the most combat spells that they can grant to the familiar to unleash, witches have several interesting spells that could be good for tactics and role play wise it makes sense that their supernatural familiar is more than meets the eye, alchemist is an interesting choice since in this tactic the familiar will be in battle more often and will be hurt more often and with the alchemist they can attach themselves and get fast healing 5 for as long as they are attached as well as being able to use a mutagen and extracts.

So TLDR: I want to play a familiar as my main character, whats the best thing to do?

[avr]

1a: No they don't get new feats by RAW.

1b: Yes, IMO it would be reasonable to be able to sacrifice your own feat gains to be able to train your familiar.

2: An Alchemist gets more HP & BAB, and your familiar's stats depend on these, but a Wizard will be the best at buffing their familiar. A Witch is asking for trouble if they use their familiar in melee because their familiar is their spellbook. One you didn't mention is the Advanced Class Guide playtest's Shaman which is probably a good option - their familiars get minor bonuses based on the spirit chosen.

[kirerellim]

First off, I love the idea lol

Secondly... I'm not sure if they gain feats by raw. I've never gave them feats before. But here it says....

'Familiar Basics: Use the basic statistics for a creature of the familiar’s kind, but make the following changes:

Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master’s character level or the familiar’s normal HD total, whichever is higher. '

Then you refer to Improving Creatures...

'Feat Acquisition and Ability Score Increases

A monster’s total Hit Dice, not its ECL, govern its acquisition of feats and ability score increases. '

then...

'All types have a number of feats equal to 1 + 1 per 3 Hit Dice.'

So, I'd say you could make an argument for giving it feats, yes.

--

I'd go with Wizard for the class. This is gonna give you the most spells and wizards are surprisingly good buffers normally. When you add in that you can target your familiar with 'personal' spells, like tensers transformation... :smallwink:

'Share Spells: At the master’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his familiar. The familiar must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit.

If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires. Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself.

A master and his familiar can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the familiar’s type (magical beast). '

And as you mentioned, you can make the familiar deliver touch spells, which will be nice damage bursts. Gish, monkey style!

edit: Oops. Totally missed the pathfinder >< no idea how much if any of this applies.

[Nihilarian]

Amusingly enough, the rogue has an archetype that grants a familiar called the Carnivalist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/carnivalist). Not sure how good it is.

Keep in mind that you are going to be squishy. Very, very squishy. And it's difficult to customize.

Having said that, the real archetype you want is probably the Beast-Bonded (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch-archetypes/beast-bonded) Witch.

[Bigbeefie]

There are feats designed to give Familiars more abilities and item slots. I see nothing wrong with making a wizard who takes Improved familiar and focus his feats for his familiar. Here are a few nice ones that could help you achieve your Idea.

Familiar Spell (Metamagic)
Familiar Spell (Metamagic)
You can imbue your familiar with a spell.

Prerequisites: Spellcaster with familiar class feature.

Benefit: You can transfer a prepared spell to your familiar, allowing the familiar to cast that spell at a later time. Variables that rely on caster level function according to your caster level, not your familiar's Hit Dice, though your familiar's Intelligence may influence how precisely it can follow your instructions on how to use these spells.

Your familiar must be able to speak to cast spells with a verbal component (the ability to speak with its master or creatures of its kind is insufficient). Your familiar must be carrying any material or focus components necessary, unless the materials cost less than 1 gp and the spell is prepared with Eschew Materials. Attack rolls use your familiar's ability scores. A familiar spell counts against the number of spells you may prepare for as long as your familiar retains the spell. Once your familiar casts a retained spell, you can prepare a new spell in that slot the next time you prepare spells.

A familiar spell uses up a spell slot 3 levels higher than the spell's actual level. Your familiar can store a number of spell levels (including this modifier) equal to your caster level, but no spell's adjusted level can exceed half your caster level.

Special: If you are a spontaneous caster, you must select a specific spell with which to imbue your familiar; you cannot imbue your familiar with an open spell slot.

Extra Item Slot - read this ones special and run it by your DM to see if you can have a familiar with this as one of his feats already at point of creation.
Extra Item Slot
You are able to wear magic items more easily than other creatures of your kind.

Prerequisites: Non-humanoid body shape.

Benefit: Choose one magic item slot not normally available to creatures with your shape. You can now use magic items in that slot.

Special: Feats that are meant for familiars can be switched out for a familiar's default feats (as listed in the familiar's statistics) if the familiar meets the prerequisites. Such feat replacements must be made when the PC first acquires a new familiar, and-like all new feats from supplemental sources-the new feats should be approved by the GM before being integrated into play.

I also Think you would do well with Craft Wand and giving your Familiar spells to go to town with. Fire Ball, Lightning bolt, Enervation, summon monster/swarm/Poison frog, come to mind. You could also give him a ring of telekinesis and let him do combat maneuvers while your wizard lays down some battlefield control. You might be giving up a lot of your feats but Honestly a wizard doesn't need many feats to work decently.

[CigarPete]

If you want your familiar to actually advance and be able to access the full arcane list yourself, you can always play a sylvan bloodline sorcerer. Wildblooded archetype of the fey bloodline, gives an animal companion, which advances as normal with the boon companion feat. Animal companions get feats, skill points and other bonuses as they increase in level. So, effectively, you are a sorcerer with a fighter under your control. Works pretty well for me in my PFS games.

[grarrrg]

Familiars do NOT gain feats, but there are a variety of feats the character can take that directly benefit their Familiar.

Improved Familiar should probably be at the top of your list.


Since the Familiars base stats (HP/Bab/etc...) are based on the _character_ stats, not the _class_ stats, I'd recommend something more unorthodox to beef up the little guy.

Paladin with Eldritch Heritage would be a d10HD, Full Bab based Familiar (can go with any Full Bab class, but Eldritch Heritage requires 13 CHA anyway so...).
Buccaneer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/human/buccaneer-gunslinger-human) Gunslingers can gain a Parrot or Monkey familiar (but not until level 5)
A variety of d8HD, 3/4 Bab classes can gain familiars various ways:
Alchemist: Tumor Familiar Discovery
Rogue: Either an Archetype, or an Advanced Talent
Magus: An Arcanna
Druid: Various archetypes grant a specific type of familiar
Bard: Sea Singer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/sea-singer) archeytpe at level 2 (monkey or parrot)

And then there's always the classic 'gish' build.
Eldritch Knights have d10HD and Full Bab, but do _not_ advance Special Abilities of your Familiar.

[Khosan]

There are also Familiar Archetypes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-archetypes). I'm not sure how useful they are, but Valet comes with some snazzy looking bonuses (especially if you're interested in item creation).

[SamsDisciple]

After re reading the entry for familiars on the RSD I actually think that they do receive feats. When talking about advancement of animal companions, familiars, cohorts, and followers it seems like RAI that they combined the animal companion and familiar because they are essentially the same thing just one is bigger and one is smarter. This is what I found.

"Another issue is who gets to control the companion's advancement. Animal companions, eidolons, and cohorts all advance much like PCs, making choices about feats, skills, special abilities, and (in the case of cohorts) class levels. Whoever controls the companion's actions also makes decisions about its advancement, but there is more of a shared role between you and the GM for some types of companions.

Animal Companion: Advancement choices for an animal companion include feats, skills, ability score increases, and tricks.

If the companion's Intelligence score is 2 or lower, it is limited to a small selection of feats. You should decide what feats the animal learns, though the GM should have a say about whether a desired feat is appropriate to the animal's type and training—fortunately, the feats on the list are appropriate for just about any animal. If the animal's Intelligence is 3 or higher (whether from using its ability score increase or a magic item), it can select any feat that it qualifies for. You should decide what feat it learns, subject to GM approval, although the creature's higher intelligence might mean it has its own ideas about what it wants to learn.

As with feats, you should decide what skills your animal companion learns, chosen from the Animal Skills list and subject to GM approval. If the animal's Intelligence score is 3 or higher, it can put its ranks into any skill, with the GM's approval. Of course, the animal might not have the physical ability to perform certain skills (a dog can't create disguises, an elephant can't use the Ride skill, and so on).

Ability score increases are straightforward when it comes to physical ability scores—training an animal to be stronger, more agile, or tougher are all reasonable tasks. Training an animal to be smarter, more intuitive, or more self-aware is less easy to justify—except in the context where people can cast spells and speak with animals."

I quoted way more than I should but it's late and I didn't want to miss anything. I really think that familiars get the feats based off of hd or masters class level but nobody ever pays attention to that because how often do familiars normally leave the safety of the magical bags?

[avr]

Note that the section you quoted explicitly does not apply to familiars. Familiars are not animal companions or eidolons or cohorts. Animal companions use very different mechanics.

Familiars don't gain skill ranks of their own with hit dice for example, they use either their masters or the base for the animal, where the latter does not change as the master gains levels. Similarly for saves or base attack. Animal companions do not use the same mechanics.

If a wizard's familiar had animal HD equal to the masters level, then its BAB would be 3/4 of the masters level. If it had magical beast HD then the BAB would be equal to the masters level. Instead its BAB is half the masters level; it does not have HD of its own in this respect at least.

Basically familiars really don't gain feats by the rules as written.

[SamsDisciple]

Ok I am not nearly as familiar with the rules as everybody else but I am confused as to what this line means under familiar basics

"Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher."

It specifically changes the hit points, attack bonus, saving throws, and skills but makes no mention of feats while in the bestiary when it talks about increasing the hit die of a creature it says this

"As additional Hit Dice are added, other abilities increase in power as well. Additional Hit Dice usually results in better attack bonuses, saves, hit points, and skills, as well as more feats. It can also include additional spellcasting capability and other powers."

The only things not adjusted already as RAW is feats and spell casting (since most or all familiars don't have their own spells that part is irrelevant) so I guess my main confusion is where by RAW it says that familiars don't get feats but if you took another animal and raised its hd to the same level as the familiar the normal animal would by RAW have several feats.
Maybe I am just being stubborn about this since I am trying to force logic into a game and that doesn't work very often in these games but these are the most relevant passages I could find with no specific RAW saying yes or no.

[avr]

'Effects related to number of Hit Dice' covers effects like Blasphemy, Sleep, Cloudkill and Color Spray which have variable effects based on HD.

A line saying that Hit Dice 'usually' result in more feats doesn't help when 1) sometimes they don't and 2) you only have 'for the purpose of effects related to Hit Dice' - feats not being an effect.

[SamsDisciple]

Ok I finally found with my google fu elsewhere why familiars dont get feats and it finally makes a little more sense. Even though the familiar gains hit points they do not gain an increase in hit dice. If for whatever reason they gain an actual increase in hit dice then yes they would then gain a feat according to normal progression rules.

Now back to the original idea. I think there are two main ways to go about this tactically, one is to have a full caster master and darting in and out to cast spells given to me by the "master." The other is to go with a dip in beast bonded witch because you can RAW give up your feats to your familiar and then the master goes fighter after that giving the familiar better attack bonus, oodles of feats, and better hit points. I also think a small mention can be made for going full witch with beast bonded since you can at level ten peacefully possess your familiar for an indefinite amount of time. So for campaigns that start above level 10 you can legally play a schizophrenic diminutive animal with class levels! I have seen the existence of guides for 3.5 on how to make the best caster familiar and most of it still is applicable though there might be a couple of different choices but what kind of build/animal would I want as a true familiar fighter (option two from above)