Cerebremancer Help! Which classes?

[Rossebay]

So my DM is completely chill with Precocious Apprentice early entry cheese--everything goes.
So what do I do?
Psionic Class 3/Arcane Class 1/Cerebremancer 10, unless I can enter earlier?

Psionic classes I'm considering:
STP Erudite
Normal Erudite
Psion

Arcane classes:
Warmage
Sorcerer
Wizard

What's the best combination? I was considering STPE/Warmage to have blasting spells, but shore up any weaknesses on the utility side... But then I feel like my character is just a wizard with always ready blasting.

STPE/Wizard lets me pick a few blasting spells as my main spells, and allows me to grab utility spells otherwise.

Psion/Sorcerer just lets me have a lot of spontaneous utility and damage, and with practiced spellcaster and practiced manifester, everything's as strong as it should be.

Psion/Wizard seems like the most basic approach...

Not even sure on feats or race. Thinking Sun Elf? Elan?

[Grod_The_Giant]

The most important thing is to synchronize your ability scores. You don't want to have to worry about both Int and Cha if you can avoid it. Given that, I probably would go with the standard Psion/Wizard. Use the Psion for battle magic, and the Wizard for utilities, since you'll still be a few levels behind on that side.

You could also try Psion/Beguiler, using psionics to fill the roles the beguiler can't, but I feel like it wouldn't work quite so well.

[Callin]

Is there a way to get divine casting as arcane? I seem to remember something like that??? If so and im not a total idiot Archivist would be an Awesome choice. Or... if you can talk the DM into allowing a Divine Variant. But the divine to arcane way would be better. Go StPE/Archivist and know everything. Use the StPE to pull out what ya need when you need it and Archivist to fuel your powers known and have some more spells to toss around when Psionics just wont cut it.

I really hope i am not misremembering this.

[Psyren]

Wizard/Psion is fine entry. Even a Wiz 3/Psion 3 entry can be played with minimal drawbacks, though since PA is allowed you may as well use it.

Focus on the wizard side; Psion is there for passive benefits like Schism, Synchronicity, Temporal Acceleration and Anticipatory Strike. Combine that action economy with your spellcasting and you will be a formidable wizard.

[Kelb_Panthera]

wizard/psion is almost certainly the way to go. I'm not as bothered by MAD as most but there's very little reason to go with any other combo.

Psion: fair selection of powers, ultimate spontaneity. Load up on effects that you expect to spam and you're golden.

Wizard: unlimited selection of spells, best preparation mechanic available. Load up on utility and effects that psionics can't adequately emulate and rock the world with your power.

It's a strong enough combo that it works well even without early entry.

[Fouredged Sword]

Ok, note, generally psionics handle lowered manifester levels better than standard casting. They have a better ability to make low level powers stretch further with practiced manifester and such. Low level spells are just not as useful.

I would focus on arcane casting, and expand from there.

Here is an odd build, clunky at -10th level, but interesting from that point on.

Bard 1 / sorcerer 6 / Wilder 3 / Sublime Chord 1 / Cerebremancer 9.

Really odd, but interesting.

[Nihilarian]

Is there a way to get divine casting as arcane? I seem to remember something like that??? If so and im not a total idiot Archivist would be an Awesome choice. Or... if you can talk the DM into allowing a Divine Variant. But the divine to arcane way would be better. Go StPE/Archivist and know everything. Use the StPE to pull out what ya need when you need it and Archivist to fuel your powers known and have some more spells to toss around when Psionics just wont cut it.

I really hope i am not misremembering this.Don't know about that but there is a psionic/divine theurge class.

[Ramza00]

Books allowed?
Level starting, expected level ending?
Flaws allowed?
How much cheese would your DM allowed?

[Rossebay]

Books allowed?
Level starting, expected level ending?
Flaws allowed?
How much cheese would your DM allowed?

All books, all magazines.
Anything you can find. At all.
Starting at level 3, going until level 10, 15? Not sure yet.
2 flaws. Maybe 3 if I went blind.

DM allows low/low-mid cheese.

[(Un)Inspired]

If PF material is ok then an ardent/ wis sorcerer would be really cool. It sucks that they're both spontaneous but you could get so many 9th level spells and powers. So many. Powers. Spells. So many powers and spells

Especially with psiotheurgist

[Ramza00]

All books, all magazines.
Anything you can find. At all.
Starting at level 3, going until level 10, 15? Not sure yet.
2 flaws. Maybe 3 if I went blind.
DM allows low/low-mid cheese.

Wizard 1/Psion 3/Cerebremancer 10 is the best build and should take you through your entire play through career it looks like.

With cerbremancer more feats means a lot more power, so get as many flaws as you can without being blind.

If your DM will allow power link shards from magic of eberron be the race kalashtar. Power link shards give you an effective 6 pp per day for 3,000 gp (or 1,500 if you craft them), you can have as many as your ml. Furthermore they allow you to increase your ml +2 a day as a free action for a number of shards you have, and this ml boost has no upper limit and it bypasses the normal ml caps. Thus you can cast 3 different 9th level astral constructs as soon as level 7 (wealth by level prevents you from doing it at level 6).

Psionic Powers that break the action economy and thus help you be a stronger wizard.
Psionic Action Economy Breakers
Schism, SRD. 4th level Telepath power. For 7 pp, you get an extra mental standard action per round thus if the combat last 2 rounds you have a wash of action but if the combat last 3 or more rounds you get a free standard action each turn.
Hustle, SRD. 3rd Level Nomad Power. For 5 pp you convert your swift action to a move action allowing you to refocus your psionic focus if you have psionic meditation feat, or you can move that turn if you use a full round action power or spell.
Synchronicity, Complete Psionic/Races of Destiny. 1st level power, For 3 pp and your standard action you can ready any standard action or move action for 1 round and the trigger can be anything chosen at the time you release the ready action. Works real well with schism for you can now bypass the -6 ml of schism by using your mental mind to ready an action and your main mind to cast it.
Anticipatory Strike, Complete Psionic/Races of Destiny. 5th level power. For 9 pp you get the psionic version of celerity.
Sense Danger, Magic of Eberron. 3rd level power. For 5 pp,even when you are surprised and flat footed you can cast a psionic power as an immediate action, synchronicity is a psionic power, thus you always go first if you choose to even if your suprised and flat footed.
Temporal Acceleration, SRD. 6th level power for 11 pp you get a 1 round of time stop, for 15 pp you get two rounds of time stop. This means your cerebremancer gets time stop 5 levels earlier than a normal wizard.
Linked Power, Complete Psionic. This is a feat not a power but Linked Power Synchronicity means you get a free standard action next round for the price of 1 pp and your psionic focus.


Now these are the ways to get psionic powers that are not on your class list or your discipline list.

Independent Research
A psion also can research a power independently, duplicating an existing power or creating an entirely new one. If characters are allowed to develop new powers, use these guidelines to handle the situation.

Any kind of manifester can create a new power. The research involved requires access to a retreat conducive to uninterrupted meditation. Research involves an expenditure of 200 XP per week and takes one week per level of the power. At the end of that time, the character makes a Psicraft check (DC 10 + spell level). If that check succeeds, the character learns the new power if her research produced a viable power. If the check fails, the character must go through the research process again if she wants to keep trying.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm


Psionic Research cost a minor amount of xp and uses one of your powers known but it is the cheapest way to add powers to your class list. This requires DM approval
Expanded Knowledge: Requires a precious feat slot
Hidden Talent: Requires a precious feat slot but can learn any 1st level psionic power, this feat must be taken at 1st level and you can take this feat even if you are taking wizard as your 1st level class.
Psychic Chirugery: Effectively requires DM approval since you need to meet a 17th level telepath npc and have the npc willing to add powers to your powers known by being bribed or the telepath willing to part with precious xp. Note a 17th level telepath also can mind rape you to oblivion and you wouldn't even know it till its over. Same idea with a scroll of psychic chirugery that you buy from the magic mart, it once again requires DM approval.
Power Repository Shard: Magic of Eberron, Requires Kalashtar, you can make one of your psionic shards be a different power known by implanting a power repository shard. You lose 1 power known but you gain the power that is implanted in the stone instead. The power can be up to 4th level. Remember 1 more power repository shard is 1 less power link shard. Cost to buy 3,000 gp (1st), 12,000 gp (2nd), 27,000 gp (3rd), 48,000 gp (4th).


Assumming a magic mart type of economy
Telepath Build
Feats
Wizard 1 Eidetic Spellcaster (no need of a spellbook give up familiar and scribe scroll)
1 Precocious Apprentice
1 Spell Mastery
1 Open or Hidden Talent Astral Construct
Psion 1 Linked Power
3 Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard)
6 Uncanny Forethought
9 Open or Expanded Knowledge (Hustle)
12 Open
15 Practiced Manifester (Psion)

DM is stingy with magic item and spells
Wizard 1 Eidetic Spellcaster
1 Precocious Apprentice
1 Spell Mastery
1 Practiced Spellcaster Wizard
Psion 1 Linked Power
3 Craft Wondrous Item
6 Uncanny Forethought
9 True Believer
12 Open
15 Practiced Manifester (Psion)

Craft Wondrous Item allows you to craft both psionic and magic items according to the MIC. True Believer can get you the tome of the ancient lore (you craft it yourself), allowing you to learn all arcane spells in existence. Craft Wondrous Item also allows you to craft your own power linked shards or power repository shards.

[Ramza00]

Forgot to explain uncanny forethought.

There is a feat chain that takes 3 feats. Spell Mastery->Uncanny Forethought->Practiced Spellcaster. On a normal build this allows you to reserve a number of spells equal to your int modifier and cast any spell you know (aka any spell in your spellbook) those spells as a full round action with a 2 level caster loss. Practiced Spellcaster removes the caster level loss with a full wizard build.

Now with cerbremancer, because your wizard side is 3 levels behind practiced spellcaster is a good feat anyway and with uncanny forethought you only suffer a single caster level loss for those full round action spells. Thanks to the power of hustle you can make your swift action into a move action thus for all your actions per round you can still move and cast any spell in your spell book giving you the perfect magical weapon at any time.

Uncanny Forethought is a no brainer in my opinion if you have enough feat slots to take the extra 2 feats over and above practiced spellcaster.

[Rossebay]

Ramza, that was reeeaaaalllly awesome.

Color me amazed. That basically gives me everything I was interested in, and more.

Also, a million points for formatting and explanation. Thanks!

[Psyren]

Don't forget Twin/Quicken Power, and PP reducers to combine with these and all the other breakers.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

If you have room for the feats, you could also consider adding on the Incarnum-based power point recharge trick.

[Socksy]

Duergar Wizard1/Psion1
Feat: Precocious Apprentice.

He can now manifest Invisibility (racial) and cast a 2nd level spell. Spell-like abilities count as spells for the purpose of determining whether a character can enter a prestige class (p.72, Complete Arcane), so by introducing magic/psionics transparency, the Duergar's Invisibility racial ability should qualify as a second-level power for these purposes.

You did say your DM wasn't lactose-intolerant, right?:smallwink:

[Ramza00]

Duergar Wizard1/Psion1
Feat: Precocious Apprentice.

He can now manifest Invisibility (racial) and cast a 2nd level spell. Spell-like abilities count as spells for the purpose of determining whether a character can enter a prestige class (p.72, Complete Arcane), so by introducing magic/psionics transparency, the Duergar's Invisibility racial ability should qualify as a second-level power for these purposes.

You did say your DM wasn't lactose-intolerant, right?:smallwink:

Doesn't work

Complete Arcane page 72


Characters or creatures that use spell-like abilities or invocations never learn the arcane circumlocutions of logic and mental training necessary for advanced spellcasting.

As such, requirements for feats and prestige classes based on specific levels of spells cast (“Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells,”for example) cannot be met by spell-like abilities or invocations—not even spell-like abilities or invocations that allow a character to use a specific arcane spell of the appropriate level or higher

It laters go on that prestige classes that require specific spells such as darkness or charm person can be entered with spell like abilities that replicated said spells.

[Endarire]

Being a Conjurer for Abrupt Jaunt is wonderful, and a strong consideration.

[thethird]

Actually My approach would be different...

I would go with StP Erudite 3 / Sha'ir 1 / Cerebremancer / Psychic Theurge

This gets you double 9s even if mad.

[Mithril Leaf]

I'm a big proponent of Wizard 1/Psion 3/Cerebremancer X/Mind Mage 10/Cerebremancer Y for these sorts of builds. You end up with 9th level spells through a Mind Mage Feature that allows you to lower spell level for PP, and 9th level powers natively. Mind Mage (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=3171) has a handbook over on minmax. Note that it's Dragon, but you said that was allowed.