[3.X] Invisible Spell question.

[Yael]

If I'm using the metamagic feat: Invisible Spell on some spells like an orb or a ranged touch attack, does it count as touch/flat-footed attack?

I mean, you could not easily dodge what you couldn't see; hence, if someone is kind of pointing at you, but other is aiming at you with a bow, maybe you'll not notice the attack from the finger.

Does this work?

[Gemini476]

If you use Invisible Spell on a ranged touch attack, it is going to be a touch attack. It already is one, though, and they're only caught flat-footed if the feat or spell says they are.

In general feats only give the benefits that they explicitly state they give.

Don't try to apply logic to the rules, less you get Commoner Railguns, nuclear Ring Gates, and Ethereal black holes.

[Azoth]

Invisible spell to flat foot someone is achieved by summoning critters.

[Valtu]

Hmm, well maybe an invisible spell doesn't catch one flat-footed, but could it at least not allow a reflex save against Fireball or Lightning Bolt? That seems pretty reasonable.

[eggynack]

Hmm, well maybe an invisible spell doesn't catch one flat-footed, but could it at least not allow a reflex save against Fireball or Lightning Bolt? That seems pretty reasonable.
What is reasonable and what is are two different things. In this case, given the fact that you're granting a +0 metamagic the same capabilities as the un-errata'd version of irresistible spell, a +4 metamagic, I think that in this situation they may be the same thing. This is doubly true because invisible spell is one of the most absolutely borked chunks of metamagic in the game. At least quicken is clear about how it works.

[jedipotter]

If I'm using the metamagic feat: Invisible Spell on some spells like an orb or a ranged touch attack, does it count as touch/flat-footed attack?

I mean, you could not easily dodge what you couldn't see; hence, if someone is kind of pointing at you, but other is aiming at you with a bow, maybe you'll not notice the attack from the finger.

Does this work?

No. Not by RAW. A target might still sense the spell effect, for example. Like a tingle in the air. They would not know what it is, but they could dodge it.

[Segev]

The only thing I can think that the intended use of Invisible Spell was for is helping conceal when you perform spellcasting. If you still and silent an invisible fireball, nobody can tell that you cast a fireball at all; there was just this "whoomph" of extreme heat over there somewhere, and now people are burned and stuff is on fire. No sign of the bead of fire erupting from your location.

Mechanically, all it does is make it so that the spell's effect is invisible. This is rather broken on Summon Monster/Nature's Ally spells, but otherwise has no mechanical effect other than "only those who can see invisible things can see the spell's effect."

It is just plain CONFUSING on many transmutation spells, particularly the polymorph line. When the spell effect is your new shape and size, what does making it "invisible" mean? Are you illusorily disguised as an unchanged you? Is it a free "Invisibility" spell? A free "Greater Invisibility?"

[kardar233]

I like Invisible Selective Fog Cloud (a trick I think I got from Rubik), as it obscures the vision only of people who can see Invisible.

[Segev]

I like Invisible Selective Fog Cloud (a trick I think I got from Rubik), as it obscures the vision only of people who can see Invisible.
True. Combine that with standard invisibility, and center it on yourself...

"Invisible Darkness" could do similar wonders.

"Invisible Light" would be tricky; you'd need to have the DM determine whether the light cast by it is part of the spell (and thus invisible) or if the spell effect is just the light source's brightness (so the illumination itself is still visible, as per what happens if you cast Invisibility on a torch).

[Deophaun]

Mechanically, all it does is make it so that the spell's effect is invisible. This is rather broken on Summon Monster/Nature's Ally spells, but otherwise has no mechanical effect other than "only those who can see invisible things can see the spell's effect."
Not quite. What it does is make the spell's manifestation invisible. But, "manifestation" is an undefined term, and is related to a spell's effect, hence the confusion. I interpret "manifestation" to be stuff like the sparkles that fill the air while the Fairy Godmother is turning a pumpkin into a carriage in Cinderella, for instance. It's the pyrotechnical by-product of the spell, but not the effect itself. I think this meshes well with RAI and gets rid of all the confusing business with invisible illusions and transmutations.

[Gemini476]

Invisible Wall of Iron giving you completely mundane invisible swords and armor is pretty awesome. Or completely mundane invisible walls of iron, I guess. You could do something similar with Wall of Stone and that spell that changes the type of rock.

[Uncle Pine]

Invisible Fog Cloud, invisible Invisibility and invisible Prismatic Wall are all discrete ways to say "I don't like you" to spellcasters and such.

[Rubik]

I like Invisible Selective Fog Cloud (a trick I think I got from Rubik), as it obscures the vision only of people who can see Invisible.You'd only need Selective Spell if the cloud were something other than Fog Cloud, like Solid Fog, Freezing Fog, or Acid Fog, but otherwise, it's great for anyone trying to hide from See Invisibility or True Seeing, and Solid Fog (and its further derivatives) are great as battlefield control, especially if it's Permanencied on a tooth of Dahlver Nar, so you can open your mouth and stop everyone within range (except for you, of course). And when you want to stop the effect, just close your mouth.

[Deophaun]

You'd only need Selective Spell if the cloud were something other than Fog Cloud, like Solid Fog, Freezing Fog, or Acid Fog, but otherwise, it's great for anyone trying to hide from See Invisibility or True Seeing, and Solid Fog (and its further derivatives) are great as battlefield control, especially if it's Permanencied on a tooth of Dahlver Nar, so you can open your mouth and stop everyone within range (except for you, of course). And when you want to stop the effect, just close your mouth.
LoE requires an opening of at least 1 square foot: you need an awfully big mouth to pull that off.

[Rubik]

LoE requires an opening of at least 1 square foot: you need an awfully big mouth to pull that off.Works best when you're a warforged (and can be built to suit) or a neraph (which, as a frogman-shaped outsider has a huge mouth anyway).