[3.5] Need help for Fighter majoring in Longbows

[N-TG]

This is the 1st time I play a character with a Bow and I never had a character focusing on that when I'm a DM so I never studied about it. But now that I am studying it I want help to find equipment, prestige classes and things to make me a bit better.

Just so you know, the DM allows powerplay, and from other sources and not only from the core books, and I currently have around 2500 gold pieces, in the town, after a long quest.

I have a 4th lvl human fighter Fighter (STR:16-DEX:18-CON:14-WIS:12-INT:12-CHA:11). I can re-train Feats and they are Point Blank Shot - Rapid Shot - Improved Initiative - Weapon Focus + Specialization (Longbow) - Precise Shot. Lastly I have a +1 STR Composite Longbow, a +1 Greatsword, a Breastplate and a Buckler.

I found ammunition from other sources, specifically "The Archery Handbook" and "Toxophilite - The Archery Handbook" with many information, that I'm going to use, but they haven't been updated for years.

So any information and help will be much appreciated.

EDIT: Till now I had some recommendations, thanks for the people that helped till now

Class
WhiteLycan&JaronK - Targeteer - Unfortunately won't accept changing class right now

Feat
WhiteLycan - Multishot (Or Greater Manyshot) / Dead Aim - Yes I'll take them both as soon as possible
Firest Kathon - Deadly Aim - Suggested it, waiting for answer

Weapon
WhiteLycan - Elven Double Bow - I'll stick to Longbow and I'll see what I can do for that.

Armor

[WhiteLycan]

You'll have to google it because I don't remember the exact issue, but there's an issue of Dragon magazine that has an alternate class feature for fighters that lets them add their DEX bonus to damage with bows. I'd definitely ask the DM if you could take it.

Also, expanded psionics. Feat called multishot, I think. Look into it.

If you want, there's a bow in arms and equipment called Elven Double Bow. Let's you shoot two arrows. It's not incredibly useful in the middle of an encounter but to be able to start an encounter with two arrows already knocked can help.

[JaronK]

That thing in Dragon Magazine is actually an alternate class, the Targeteer, which is a variant Fighter. They lose martial melee weapons and IIRC heavy armor proficiency, but get two exotic weapon proficiencies and access to special feats just for them. One of them gives dex to damage.

Note that Ranger 2/Fighter (or Targeteer) 2 is better than straight Fighter 4, since you get the same number of feats (assuming you were going to take Rapid Shot anyway) but far more skill points and a few other interesting abilities, plus Spot as a class skill.

JaronK

[N-TG]

You'll have to google it because I don't remember the exact issue, but there's an issue of Dragon magazine that has an alternate class feature for fighters that lets them add their DEX bonus to damage with bows. I'd definitely ask the DM if you could take it.

Also, expanded psionics. Feat called multishot, I think. Look into it.

If you want, there's a bow in arms and equipment called Elven Double Bow. Let's you shoot two arrows. It's not incredibly useful in the middle of an encounter but to be able to start an encounter with two arrows already knocked can help.

I saw a feat from the Dragon Compendum called Dead Aim, that allows me to Add my Dexterity modifier to my damage, like a normal fighter adds strength to their attacks. I asked to retrain Improved Initiative for that.

I couldn't find Multishot on the Expanded Psionics book but I found a feat called Greater Manyshot is that it?

I checked the Elven Double bow but I don't think it's a good bow for me right now cause of the cost.


That thing in Dragon Magazine is actually an alternate class, the Targeteer, which is a variant Fighter. They lose martial melee weapons and IIRC heavy armor proficiency, but get two exotic weapon proficiencies and access to special feats just for them. One of them gives dex to damage.

Note that Ranger 2/Fighter (or Targeteer) 2 is better than straight Fighter 4, since you get the same number of feats (assuming you were going to take Rapid Shot anyway) but far more skill points and a few other interesting abilities, plus Spot as a class skill.

JaronK

I don't think he'll allow to change my class. But I'll ask if I can take his abilities as bonus feat though...

[TuggyNE]

I couldn't find Multishot on the Expanded Psionics book but I found a feat called Greater Manyshot is that it?

Presumably that is what they meant; it is certainly a useful feat, although it's best if used with a source of precision damage, especially Skirmish.

[Firest Kathon]

If your DM is OK with Pathfinder material, I recommend the feat Deadly Aim (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deadly-aim-combat), which is like Power Attack for ranged combat (- to-Hit / + damage)

[N-TG]

If your DM is OK with Pathfinder material, I recommend the feat Deadly Aim (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deadly-aim-combat), which is like Power Attack for ranged combat (- to-Hit / + damage)

I thought this is similar to Dead Aim but this one is like a Power Attack for rangers. I'll see if he's ok with that too.

[Rastapopolos]

I'd defo reccomend a way to threaten squares around you. Either with armour spikes or and elvencraft longbow or something... Your Rogue will love you for it. Plus you can put passive weapon enchants on like defending or warning for a nice bonus.

[N-TG]

I'd defo reccomend a way to threaten squares around you. Either with armour spikes or and elvencraft longbow or something... Your Rogue will love you for it. Plus you can put passive weapon enchants on like defending or warning for a nice bonus.

Do you suggest any armor? I have a breastplate right now and I'm thinking of changing it into a Mithril Shirt since I have the money.

[Rastapopolos]

Prolly better to wait until you can afford a mithril breastplate or better.. a mithril breastplate allows for a max dex bonus of +6 so that will keep you set until you can afford a +6 dex item or tome of dex, etc.

It depends on how far you can pump your dex... although there are ways around that... celestial armour (DMG) has a +8 max dex mod- the nimble property adds +1 to that. Just remember any armour you buy now can only be sold for half price later.

[N-TG]

Prolly better to wait until you can afford a mithril breastplate or better.. a mithril breastplate allows for a max dex bonus of +6 so that will keep you set until you can afford a +6 dex item or tome of dex, etc.

It depends on how far you can pump your dex... although there are ways around that... celestial armour (DMG) has a +8 max dex mod- the nimble property adds +1 to that. Just remember any armour you buy now can only be sold for half price later.

Then I'm going to sell my Breastplate and buy a chain shirt, instead of buying now a Mithril armor and keep my money.

[roguemetal]

Wild Cohort is always useful for keeping melee combatants off your archer.



There are also a few feats and items you can't quite get yet...

Woodland Archer RotW I've found to be useful when firing absurd numbers of arrows.

Ranged Weapon Mastery PHBII is great, increasing to hit, damage, and range in one feat.

The Splitting CoR weapon property is unbelievably good, get it when you can.

[Rastapopolos]

alternatively if you can find one of your party who is willing to buy it from you for full price when your done you can buy what you want... If you have a arcane caster they will probably want the mithril chain shirt when your done with it just make it githcraft with thistledown padding so it has no arcane spell failure and it gives +1 to concentration (you can prolly add the padding after).

[ericgrau]

Feats: If power plays are ok then get ranged weapon mastery (PHB 2) and improved rapid shot (complete warrior) once you qualify for effectively +4 to hit and +2 to damage. Ranged weapon mastery requires 8 BAB but you can work towards improved rapid shot right away; all you need is manyshot.

Gears: Arrows of every metal type for DR and bane arrows of every common creature type are helpful. Boots of speed are a must as soon as you can afford them, for the haste. With your high dex a mithral shirt is going to be better later and it's cheap.

Spells: If your party has a wizard or sorcerer then you can ask for a flame arrow any time you enter a dungeon. 24 hours of greater magic weapon will be nice come level 8+ too. It's only another +1 but the key part is that it's always on and doesn't eat an action, letting the caster do other things too.

[N-TG]

Wild Cohort is always useful for keeping melee combatants off your archer.

Woodland Archer RotW I've found to be useful when firing absurd numbers of arrows.

Ranged Weapon Mastery PHBII is great, increasing to hit, damage, and range in one feat.

The Splitting CoR weapon property is unbelievably good, get it when you can.

For Wold Cohort and Ranged Weapon Master I don't think I'll get them cause they won't fit for my character and since I can re-train my feats I can switch my feats when I want.

For Woodland Archer is a feat that I'll definitely get and It was already in my feats-to-get feat. Finally I can't find Splitting quality, where is it?


Feats: If power plays are ok then get ranged weapon mastery (PHB 2) and improved rapid shot (complete warrior) once you qualify for effectively +4 to hit and +2 to damage. Ranged weapon mastery requires 8 BAB but you can work towards improved rapid shot right away; all you need is manyshot.

Gears: Arrows of every metal type for DR and bane arrows of every common creature type are helpful. Boots of speed are a must as soon as you can afford them, for the haste. With your high dex a mithral shirt is going to be better later and it's cheap.



Now I currently have a few feats in mind and you added the improved rapid shot. Is there a way to use rapid shot and many shot? Cause I never found a definite answer.

For Gears I have already many type of arrows and arrow heads from different sources, that have been proved a great held. I may need to buy a Bag of Holding at some point to store bags with different arrowheads and simple arrows to re-stock my ammo at moments. I already have a problem like that

The sorcerer we have is one that won't help others will spells so I don't think he will do anything.

[Urpriest]

Now I currently have a few feats in mind and you added the improved rapid shot. Is there a way to use rapid shot and many shot? Cause I never found a definite answer.

No, they correspond to different actions.

[N-TG]

No, they correspond to different actions.

If I have haste on me can I do an attack with Many and one with Rapid?

[Nihilarian]

If I have haste on me can I do an attack with Many and one with Rapid?No, you can't.

[Urpriest]

If I have haste on me can I do an attack with Many and one with Rapid?

No, haste gives you an extra attack when you make a full attack. It doesn't change the number of actions you have.

[Haldir]

I'd recommend homebrewing or finding options that allow you to bypass Wind Walls and Miss Chances. Possibly using some of your spare cash to enchant the bow.

I definitely second Wild Cohort, just having extra actions via bodies you control will allow you to contribute to the game in better ways, which is a problem archers and fighters have. (You can lay down a hail of arrows, which is nice, but what else can you do?)

Work on ways of getting concealment/stealth and scouting skills.

[Nihilarian]

The Energy Bow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a) is the best weapon you can grab. Force effects automatically bypass wind wall, so no issue there. See if your DM will let you put the Splitting Enchantment on it and you're basically set.

[N-TG]

The Energy Bow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a) is the best weapon you can grab. Force effects automatically bypass wind wall, so no issue there. See if your DM will let you put the Splitting Enchantment on it and you're basically set.

I saw that it's a +2 composite longbow so it will be able to use it with my current feats. So I think he will allow it, but from what book is the Splitting enchantment?

[sideswipe]

take some fun feats, like ranged pin :smallbiggrin: i have seen it used in hilarious ways.

[Urpriest]

I saw that it's a +2 composite longbow so it will be able to use it with my current feats. So I think he will allow it, but from what book is the Splitting enchantment?

As roguemetal said, it's Champions of Ruin.

[Callin]

Since you said you can nab stuff from other sources is 3rd party allowed? The Relics and Rituals book has a lvl 2 Spell in it called Liliandels Furry that turns 1 arrow into 3. I think its a Bard spell so getting a Magic Item of it will cost a tad more than usual. But its really good.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Get an Elvencraft Composite Longbow that's Str +3 and Masterwork x3 with three Wand Chambers. An Elvencraft longbow from Races of the Wild can be used as a quarterstaff (double weapon) or as a bow. That means it can be treated as three separate weapons, so you need to buy masterwork three times, it can hold three wand chambers, and you can split magic weapon special abilities that provide a passive benefit between the staff ends without making the bow portion cost more. You'll need to buy +1 for each of the three separately, though. That should cost 1,900 gp, but it's well worth it as it will last your entire career.

If you're good-aligned, trade your 3rd level feat for Ancestral Relic in BoED, and pick that bow (say it was made from a piece of wood that was very dear to you, passed down to you from your great-great grandfathers by your distant uncle who lives in this town). Even if you're not good-aligned, see if you can get a neutral or evil equivalent of Ancestral Relic. Use that to sacrifice your current bow and your magic sword into it to add their full value toward its potential magical properties. Make the bow portion +1, and upgrade it to an Energy Bow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a) at 10th level. Note that every time you use Ancestral Relic to modify your relic, you can turn it into any magic item of the same base item type that it already is, so you can convert any existing magic item properties on it into completely different magic item properties of equal or lesser value, up to the total value you've sacrificed into it. Note that excess value sacrificed into it is not lost, it's tracked and can be used later on when the maximum value of its magical properties increases.

Be sure to get the standard feats: Ranged Weapon Mastery (PH2), Penetrating Shot (PH2), Woodland Archer (RotW), Improved Rapid Shot (CW), etc.

Get Leadership at 6th level for a Fiend of Possession (FF) cohort. It can possess you to give you a +4 Profane bonus to every ability score, cast personal-range buffs on you (Warlock, Draognfire Adept, and Psion are good dips), and give your weapon additional magic item properties.

[N-TG]

*snip for big size*

Is it possible to guide me on which book is which one so I can read them cause you said a ton of things I don't even know ??

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Is it possible to guide me on which book is which one so I can read them cause you said a ton of things I don't even know ??

That first paragraph is just mundane, nonmagical things you can stack onto a weapon. Elvencraft is in Races of the Wild, page 166. Wand Chamber is in Dungeonscape, page 34.

Ancestral Relic is in Book of Exalted Deeds, page 39-41. It allows you to make any magic item in the game, regardless of its prerequisites, as long as its value is within the level-based limit detailed in that feat (half the standard wealth by level per level) and as long as you sacrifice at least that much value in items to it. Whenever you sacrifice anything into the relic, you add the sacrificed item's full market value to the relic's value. If your party would sell junk loot for half price, buy it from the party pool for that amount and get a cut back when you split the loot, and you can sacrifice the full market value of that junk loot into your relic to upgrade it for less than half price.

The feats I mentioned all have the sources after them.

Leadership is obvious, Fiend of Possession is a prestige class in the back of the Fiend Folio. Here's a Fiend of Possession handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7518.0), you'll want your cohort to qualify with the lowest possible ECL. Keep in mind that Bloodline levels (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm) won't increase its character level but they will be added to its effective FoP level for purposes of level-based abilities, such as item enhancement. Note that a given creature's attended items are considered an extension of that creature, so if a Fiend of Possession is possessing you then he would also be considered to be possessing all of your attended items at the same time.

[N-TG]

Wand Chamber is in Dungeonscape, page 34.

Ancestral Relic is in Book of Exalted Deeds, page 39-41.

The feats I mentioned all have the sources after them.

Leadership is obvious, Fiend of Possession is a prestige class in the back of the Fiend Folio. Here's a Fiend of Possession handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7518.0), you'll want your cohort to qualify with the lowest possible ECL. Keep in mind that Bloodline levels (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm) won't increase its character level but they will be added to its effective FoP level for purposes of level-based abilities, such as item enhancement.

I cut some parts. I was wondering, I'm a fighter and I don't think I'm able to activate a wand, so I don't think I'll be able to get a wand.

For Ancestral Relic, I don't think I'll be able to use it. My only weapon that I have is a greatsword from his father. I got the longbow from an enemy I killed. It doesn't have any value for me, except how much it costs.

Finally for the Fiend of Possession and Bloodline , it's for an evil outsider and you need to have a type of blood in you, Dragon etc etc etc. I'm a true neutral leaning to good human, born and raised for humans. So unfortunately our DM won't allow any more background changing, cause of a previous out-of-character behavior from another character, that suddenly liked a new halfling PC. His answer to the DM was "My characters likes halflings, I didn't told you though" :smallconfused:

[N-TG]

Ok I think I'm grabbing an Elven Composite Bow with +3 strength, that will cost if I remember correctly around 700 gold - 400 the +3STR Bow + 300 the Elven bow. Can I add the Splitting ability when I get the money or not?

For feats I'll grab Dead Aim, Deadly Aim, Woodland Archer, Improved Rapid Shot, Manyshot and I'll see what to get next when I'll get there.

For armor I'll see if I can get Boots of Speed and a mithril shirt.

But I was wondering, should I go for a prestige class? I'm thinking going from lvl 5 fighter to full Deepwood Sniper (http://dndtools.eu/classes/deepwood-sniper/) and then getting the rest 5 levels as an Order of the Bow Initiate (http://dndtools.eu/classes/order-of-the-bow-initiate/). Any suggestions for that?

[Urpriest]

Ok I think I'm grabbing an Elven Composite Bow with +3 strength, that will cost if I remember correctly around 700 gold - 400 the +3STR Bow + 300 the Elven bow. Can I add the Splitting ability when I get the money or not?

For feats I'll grab Dead Aim, Deadly Aim, Woodland Archer, Improved Rapid Shot, Manyshot and I'll see what to get next when I'll get there.

For armor I'll see if I can get Boots of Speed and a mithril shirt.

But I was wondering, should I go for a prestige class? I'm thinking going from lvl 5 fighter to full Deepwood Sniper (http://dndtools.eu/classes/deepwood-sniper/) and then getting the rest 5 levels as an Order of the Bow Initiate (http://dndtools.eu/classes/order-of-the-bow-initiate/). Any suggestions for that?

You'll want your Elven bow to be masterwork if you ever plan to enchant it. You can get Splitting on it later, but do remember it needs to be +1 first.

Order of the Bow Initiate doesn't work well for you, since you're going to get most of your damage from making lots and lots of attacks and benefiting from Order of the Bow Initiate means only making one attack a round.

[N-TG]

You'll want your Elven bow to be masterwork if you ever plan to enchant it. You can get Splitting on it later, but do remember it needs to be +1 first.

Order of the Bow Initiate doesn't work well for you, since you're going to get most of your damage from making lots and lots of attacks and benefiting from Order of the Bow Initiate means only making one attack a round.

How much will it cost them... Mathematics made me confused >.<

Also, do you think I should stay fighter till lvl 10 to get all the feats and then going to the Deepwood Sniper prestige?

[ericgrau]

Now I currently have a few feats in mind and you added the improved rapid shot. Is there a way to use rapid shot and many shot? Cause I never found a definite answer.
Not by default. If you're forced to move then use many shot. Your rapidly rising attack bonus will make it feasible later. At very high level you might move and many shot just because you felt like moving, laughing at the penalties. At low level manyshot is pretty meh though and you full attack whenever you can.


I may need to buy a Bag of Holding at some point to store bags with different arrowheads and simple arrows to re-stock my ammo at moments. I already have a problem like that
Get a quiver of elhonna instead ("efficient quiver" in the SRD). Cheaper tan a bag of holding and you can draw arrows from it as a free action rather than a standard action.



The sorcerer we have is one that won't help others will spells so I don't think he will do anything.
See if you can pay him a reasonable fee to 24 hour GMW you. Or buy the lesser rod of extend spell yourself and a runestaff of 2/day GMW (MiC, 2700 gp). Then point out at level 8+ that he always has leftover 3rd level spells anyway. And that the 3rd use on the rod can go to whatever spell he prefers. He really should play nice because it's a team effort, but on the flipside if you give him good stuff it likewise won't hurt you because it's a team effort.

If you do a lot of dungeon runs then get flame arrow too, otherwise don't bother with flame arrow. Because you won't get advanced warning often enough. And you can't keep it up 24 hours. 1/day flame arrow would only be 450 gp more on the above runestaff provided that you make it the first spell on the runestaff. Or it's 1800 gp by itself.

Regardless check with the sorcerer before buying items that only he can use, in case he still won't budge.

[N-TG]

Get a quiver of elhonna instead ("efficient quiver" in the SRD). Cheaper tan a bag of holding and you can draw arrows from it as a free action rather than a standard action.


Saw your tip on Manyshot/Rapidshot and to tell the truth I never thought of that. Thanks for that.

Also, since I'm currently have a 5 quiver of 20 arrows each backpack and 2 30 arrow quivers on my legs with no penalties, I wonder if I should try to get that quiver or not...