Tyrannosaurus Sue

[Valwyn]

So, after reading Dead Beat from The Dresden Files I was wondering, how many templates can you add to a tyrannosaurus before adding the zombie (or similar) template. It'd be nice if it had a way to keep the Swallow Whole ability.

In the Dresden-verse, the older a corpse is, the more poweful it is, so being roughly 65 million years old makes Sue pretty much the king queen of the undead (if possible, Sue should give off an overwhelming aura of necromancy). For reference, human zombies made from a century old corpse are closer to the Terminator (fast and strong) than to classical zombies.

So, any ideas?

[Rebel7284]

There is an evolved undead template somewhere that's supposed to represent a similar concept.

[Segev]

Well, just from the SRD...

Half-Dragon (changes type to "dragon" and gives it +2 int, so we can apply...)
Half-Fiend (it has 4 int and is neutral, not good)
Half-Celestial (it has 4 int and is neutral, not evil)
Paragon (after the breeding program from above, it well might be)
Pseudonatural (the epic version (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/pseudonaturalCreature.htm), changes it to an Outsider[Extraplanar])

In fluff, at least for 2e, you can't have undead outsiders. But nothing in the Zombie template says it can't apply to Outsiders; it just requires a corporeal creature with a skeleton. None of the templates listed above remove that.

Best part: "Pseudonatural" means (fluff-wise) it's a far realms horror (or shard thereof) that bled into the planes and took on a form that could fit in. So you don't actually have to breed it; it just spontaneously exists.

See spoiler tags for what this does to its stats:

Base Tyranosaurus: Str 28, Dex 12, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10

Half-Celestial: Str +4, Dex +2, Con +4, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha +4.
Half-Fiend: Str +4, Dex +4, Con +2, Int +4, Cha +2.
Half-Dragon: Str +8, Con +2, Int +2, Cha +2.
Pseudonatural: Str +22, Con +10, Dex +10, Wisdom +10
Paragon: All ability scores are 15 points higher than those of the base creature.
Zombie: Strength +2, Dexterity -2, Constitution --, Intelligence --, Wisdom changes to 10, Charisma changes to 1.

Str 83, Dex 31, Con --, Int --, Wis 10, Cha 1

Before becoming a Zombie, Con would have been 54, Int would have been 25, Wis would have been 44, Cha would have been 33.

It also has NAC of 50, and a +12 insight and +12 luck bonus to AC on top of that.

It also has a fly speed of 80 ft. with good maneuverability (and feathered wings, since Half-Celestial was applied last).

This beast has 36d12 HD.


Obviously, this thing, with two epic templates, is a terror to kill so one could zombify it. However, find it already dead...

...oops. If a base creature has more than 10 HD, it cannot be made into a zombie by the Animate Dead spell, according to the Zombie template. We'd need an epic spell to affect even a base tyrannosaurus.

[Slipperychicken]

You could still throw Animate Dread Warrior on it, right?

Also, aren't we supposed to apply templates in the most beneficial order?

[ZamielVanWeber]

There is an evolved undead template somewhere that's supposed to represent a similar concept.

Corpse Creature from BoVD is a strict better zombie. It keeps its special attacks, qualities, and mental statst.

[phlidwsn]

You switched its type to Dragon with half-dragon, so can't you use the Draconomicon Dragon Zombie instead of regular zombie. No HD cap there as I recall.

[hamishspence]

And I don't think it doubles Hit Dice either - a 21 HD Dragon becomes a 21 HD Zombie Dragon.

[Chronos]

You can't apply both Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial. Either of them can be applied to a neutral creature, but once you apply one, the creature's alignment changes to evil or good respectively.

[Segev]

You can't apply both Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial. Either of them can be applied to a neutral creature, but once you apply one, the creature's alignment changes to evil or good respectively.

Ah, you're right; I missed the alignment entry. Would need another alignment-changing template in the middle there somewhere that could be applied to evil creatures and make them neutral or good.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Or "usually evil" would work too, wouldn't it?

[Segev]

Or "usually evil" would work too, wouldn't it?

Maybe, if it's read as changing the alignment to being a matter of choice.

[Urpriest]

Some thoughts:

A Zombie retains none of the base creature's special attacks. This means you need either Awaken Undead, Corpse Creature, or Zombie Dragon. The other option would require a feat chain for Swallow Whole, but that would likely require one of these options anyway.

If you want the base T-rex to be "generically awesome" rather than have specific fluff (like Half-Dragon, Half-Celestial, etc.), the Battletitan is basically a T-rex++, while the templates Warbeast, Monster of Legend, and Paragon will in general just give you a more kickass base T-rex, as will hit die advancement.

(Edit: Also Spellwarped, Magebred, Horrid)

If you want the undead T-rex to be "generically awesome", you'll want the Evolved Undead template. This requires an Int score, so Awaken Undead or Corpse Creature required. Stack up to your heart's content.

[Valwyn]

Thanks for all the advice. :smalltongue:

Say, since a T-Rex can't be made into a zombie, could we use Create Undead on it and turn it into a ghast or other undead? That way it also keeps its Int score and its feats. I know there's no template for ghasts, but maybe we could work something using the Ghoul/Ghast monster class in Libris Mortis.

[Urpriest]

Thanks for all the advice. :smalltongue:

Say, since a T-Rex can't be made into a zombie, could we use Create Undead on it and turn it into a ghast or other undead? That way it also keeps its Int score and its feats. I know there's no template for ghasts, but maybe we could work something using the Ghoul/Ghast monster class in Libris Mortis.

Normally, when you use Create Undead, you just get the base creature, without any effects carried over from life. So you'd get a normal Ghoul, not some sort of T-Rex Ghoul.

And if you're homebrewing a greater range on Create Undead, you may as well just go with Bone Creature.

(By the way, templates for many types of corporeal undead exist in Savage Species, and several were updated in Libris Mortis, along with the addition of Gravetouched Ghoul.)

Also, look at Revived Fossil from the same book, which should represent the process behind Tyrannosaurus Sue a bit better.

[Forrestfire]

You can't apply both Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial. Either of them can be applied to a neutral creature, but once you apply one, the creature's alignment changes to evil or good respectively.

That's... Not how alignments work. The "Always X" alignments actually mean "Almost all of the examples of this creature are this alignment." (Monster Manual, p. 305).

For example. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20050824a)

And even if it was how they worked, alignment isn't a prerequisite, but a result, so you'd end up as either or.

[lytokk]

Was there ever a template released for dire creatures? If so, make the celestial t-rex dire, then horrid (eberron campaign setting) which makes it evil, then fiendish. I think horrid can only be applied to dire animals though. There's also the Magebred template in ECS

[Valwyn]

Normally, when you use Create Undead, you just get the base creature, without any effects carried over from life. So you'd get a normal Ghoul, not some sort of T-Rex Ghoul.

So I would turn a giant lizard into a humanoid? That sounds like something for the RAW silliness thread. :smallconfused::smallbiggrin:


(By the way, templates for many types of corporeal undead exist in Savage Species, and several were updated in Libris Mortis, along with the addition of Gravetouched Ghoul.)

I'll check them. Evolved Undead looks promising.


Also, look at Revived Fossil from the same book, which should represent the process behind Tyrannosaurus Sue a bit better.

It's not exactly what I was looking for, but it could work. Thanks. :smallsmile:

[PraxisVetli]

Corpse Creature from BoVD is a strict better zombie. It keeps its special attacks, qualities, and mental statst.


Normally, when you use Create Undead, you just get the base creature, without any effects carried over from life. So you'd get a normal Ghoul, not some sort of T-Rex Ghoul.

And if you're homebrewing a greater range on Create Undead, you may as well just go with Bone Creature.

(By the way, templates for many types of corporeal undead exist in Savage Species, and several were updated in Libris Mortis, along with the addition of Gravetouched Ghoul.)

Also, look at Revived Fossil from the same book, which should represent the process behind Tyrannosaurus Sue a bit better.
Revived Fossil is definately a good plan, also, Dragon Compendium has Ghoulosh and Ghastly creature templates, though it may or may not be humanoid specific still (I don't think it is though).