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theduck
2014-01-28, 10:58 AM
I've been working on trying to build up a campaign world, and that has gotten me thinking about a world actually inhabited by different groups of humanoid species. Now, I know it is probably no better an idea to apply biology to a DnD world than it is to apply physics, but I kinda want to apply a little at least.

So, think of all the diversity in how people look - the range of skin tones, hair textures, facial features, body types, what have you - and think that that is confined to a single species. As a whole, humans should look more like other humans than they should look like elves or dwarves, but normally elves look really similar to people, just a bit more slight and with pointy ears. I feel like the LotR films, while good, are especially guilty of this, and Dragon Age 2, despite it's many faults, at least made the elves look very distinct from the humans. Dwarves and halflings are at least distinguished by proportions and size, normally. So how do you distinguish between the species? How do you describe each one to make them look distinct and not simply human + ?

CarpeGuitarrem
2014-01-28, 11:29 AM
Nifty question! I think there's a lot of ways you could go here.

Snake-eyes (or reptilian eyes in general)--I think Wheel of Time had this, for the Aelfinn creatures.
Living hair--it moves and ripples of its own volition, like flame across an elf's shoulders.
Porcelain skin--and I don't just mean color, I mean having a totally foreign texture.
Feet like roots--if you want to tie elves to nature.

D-naras
2014-01-28, 12:02 PM
Magic's Lorwyn set had distinctly awesome elves. A cross between a typical elf and an antelope/gazelle/deer.
Lorwyn Elves (https://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/fcpics/taste/db1_LorwynElves.jpg)
And again. (http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/fcpics/features/423_ElfConcepts_thumb.jpg)

Fayd
2014-01-28, 12:04 PM
My DM's setting has elves as a race with a major sexual dimorphism problem. female elves are what you expect. Beautiful, small, and deadly with a knife. Pointy ears and all that.

Males are wolfmen, gnolls. And kinda generally awful people. (it was a curse)

NowhereMan583
2014-01-28, 12:06 PM
You could try using subtle but really off-putting differences from humans.

Examples:

Pointed teeth -- maybe in multiple rows.
No fingernails or toenails.
Extra joint in their toes.
Slitted pupils.

Wyatt8000
2014-01-28, 12:22 PM
You could try using subtle but really off-putting differences from humans.

Examples:

Pointed teeth -- maybe in multiple rows.
[...]
Slitted pupils.


As an example, study this elven commander of a great elf-fleet:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MpaIluiU3XQ/T1qowiSljeI/AAAAAAAAADU/V6-wO12hTGo/s1600/v-lizard-alien-lady.jpg

FreakyCheeseMan
2014-01-28, 12:44 PM
I have a couple of things in my universe that started off as Elves, but aren't anymore.

The Neyferi are, at the moment, a slightly-built blue-skinned species, possible with four arms. (I've been redesigning them to make them look less like small Na'vi, and so far "Four arms" is all I've come up with.) Their big distinguishing characteristic is a weak hive mined shared across their entire race - they have independent personalities and make their own decisions, but they'll occasionally have dreams of one another's memories, empathically sense one another's emotions, and automatically organize in a variety of ways. The hive mind is also responsible for their reproduction - a lot of the genetic information comes from somewhere else in the communal mind, rather than either individual parent.

The Neyferi are currently dominating my universe due to three advantages: First, the reproduction thing means that they've evolved to focus on the good of the group rather than the good of the individual (the hive mind tends to favour genetic material that comes from those that have been of benefit to the collective), so cooperation is automatic. Second, they get free efficiency with almost no investment in logistics - their traffic organizes itself, their quartermasters know who needs more food and ammunition, etc. Finally, Neyferi will tend to have dreams relating to information they badly need - this could mean dreaming about the deaths of the last group to be killed by the monster they're currently facing, or dreaming about the great insights had by a master in the craft they're learning.

Once I decided they Neyferi had drifted too far from Elves to be called Elves anymore, I came up with a new group (that aren't Elves anymore, either) - Changelings. The idea is that, a few centuries ago, human infants began to disappear and Changeling babies were left in their place - the Changelings would generally match the obvious characteristics (race, gender, hair and eye colour) of the missing infant, but beyond that be a really poor facsimilie. The Changelings themselves have no idea where they came from, but are often persecuted for their origins - though early on, when the abductions were still taking place, Fey would often intervene to punish anyone who actually killed or overly tormented a Changeling.

Physically, I'm still working on what the Changelings look like - right now, I'm thinking they look like uncanny valley humans, with slightly wider bounds. (So, they may be unusually tall or short, narrower or more rounded eyes, greater or lesser intelligence - again, like they were made by someone who was trying to imitate humans, without ever realizing how good humans were at recognizing one another.)

Rhynn
2014-01-28, 12:45 PM
Gloranthan elves are the best elves.

http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1355/10/1355104572070.gif

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/059/e/c/Aldryami_by_Wystro.jpg

Otherwise, depends on the setting. Either the traditional Tolkien elves (pointed ears!) or the short, slim D&D version.

I do like Athasian elves, though: tall, gangly, with hard, weathered skin, coarse hair, sharp, angular features.

Middenmurk (http://middenmurk.blogspot.fi/2010/04/elves.html) has awesome elf ideas. For instance, your elf might have disconcertingly sharp teeth, a cow's tail, speak in a raspy whisper, cast a pale shadow, and move with feline grace.

hymer
2014-01-28, 12:54 PM
So how do you distinguish between the species? How do you describe each one to make them look distinct and not simply human + ?

Elves in most of my campaign worlds are defined by their mutability. With such long lives, they need to be able to evolve personally rather than as a species. If an elf lives underground long enough, his skin turns black to help him hide, e.g. Elven physical features are also responsive to their mental and spiritual state. An elf with a physical scar is an elf with a mental scar, or the body would have repaired the scar within a year.

BWR
2014-01-28, 01:04 PM
As I tend to run established settings, the elves there look like the setting says they do, which is basically slightly smaller and lither humans with pointy ears.

I don't really see any need to chage that. If that's what the D&D elf is, fine. If I want something else, I'll make something else with another name.

Slipperychicken
2014-01-28, 01:21 PM
Playing PF, we realized that the weight/height generation gave elves proportions like 6ft tall and 120lb (which is a somewhat unhealthy weight for a human). That was when I realized where the -2 Con came from: Elves are supernaturally thin (I'm thinking slenderman plus facial features) and might have hollow bones too.

EDIT: That also makes it easy to see why elves and humans wouldn't normally mate: Elves look like anorexics to humans, while humans look like fatasses to elves.

Cyrion
2014-01-28, 01:43 PM
In my most recent extended campaign, the non-humans were NPCs and all were tied to a particular element. Elves were air and looked like the figure on the front of the Broadsword and the Beast Album by Tull. Gnomes were fire and looked like the fiery critters from Labyrinth, complete with removable heads and body parts. Dwarves were earth and looked like giant aye-ayes. Goblins, being water, were shape changers and looked like whatever they needed to look like.

Felhammer
2014-01-28, 01:58 PM
I've always liked the idea of elves being very lithe and angular. They have large, cheek bones that jut out sharply; gaunt faces; pointed chins; long, swooped back foreheads; small eyes, hidden deep in a recessed sockets. Long pointed ears. Flowing, thick hair. Long, spindly limbs. Alabaster skin.

Deffers
2014-01-28, 02:42 PM
Well, a friend and I came up with this really cool idea about capricious, fair-folk styled elves and--


Elves were air and looked like the figure on the front of the Broadsword and the Beast Album by Tull.

Welp, nevermind. This right here is the best elves. We can stop the thread now.:smallcool:

If you were actually interested in elves I helped come up with, which is unlikely, because that idea is SO COOL...
These guys have deep green skin, except where they have bark instead of skin. Sometimes twigs can grow from the bark. The rest of the skin can sometimes look mottled. Five feet tall is considered the average height. Pointy ears, no irises or pupils-- eyes are solid colored. They're haughty, debauched *****, to the last. Sometimes, instead of exacting some cruel and magical punishment on you, they will simply arson your house down with regular fire-- and they're a PC race.

Janus
2014-01-28, 03:29 PM
Humans with pointy ears, skin tones depending on whether they're High, Wood, or Dark Elves.
My intro to fantasy settings was Norrath, the world of the MMO EverQuest, partially famous for the sexy elf lady on the (textured) cover.

EccentricCircle
2014-01-28, 03:34 PM
When rereading the Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion a couple of years back I was interested to note that no where did I find mention of elves having pointed ears. I'm consequently not entirely sure whether this is a trait which was taken from folkloric elves and applied to Tolkienian elves, and thus whether Tolkien actually intended his characters to have pointed ears. I also read somewhere that in some of the earlier drafts of the silmarillion High Elves are refered to as gnomes, I wonder how different modern fantasy would be if that had stuck.

erikun
2014-01-28, 03:37 PM
I find that the problem with trying to radically change how elves (for example) look is that, when I say "elf" as the narrator, the players at the table imagine what they think an elf looks like, not what I imagine. I could have elves with bug eyes and mandibles, but unless I want to bring that up continuously, the players will just be imagining Lord of the Rings or Legend of Zelda or whatever their preferred elf-source is.

Rhynn
2014-01-28, 03:45 PM
When rereading the Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion a couple of years back I was interested to note that no where did I find mention of elves having pointed ears.

Tolkien explicitly describes them (in the letters, IIRC) as having "leaf-shaped" ears. This is basically like the "Balrog's wings" issue among Tolkien fans. :smallwink:

Also, yes, Noldor were "gnomes," because (despite being derived from neo-Latin of uncertain origin) the word sounds like it shares a root with e.g. "gnosis," and thus has implications of knowing things. They were also called "Deep Elves," implying depth of knowledge.

TheCountAlucard
2014-01-28, 07:18 PM
My elves are the Fae princes of the Unshaped lands, banished to the perilous shores of ordered Creation. They wear assumptions of elements or bestial visage, or of dreams and passion or cerements and bone. Some command retinues of hobgoblins or drive prides of lions before them. Others bear crowns of silver or swords of molten glass or other strange sorceries, but rare indeed is the raksha lord who would wield iron against his brother.

But yeah. Oftentimes they have pointed ears.

Mr. Mask
2014-01-28, 07:27 PM
As I tend to run established settings, the elves there look like the setting says they do, which is basically slightly smaller and lither humans with pointy ears.

I don't really see any need to chage that. If that's what the D&D elf is, fine. If I want something else, I'll make something else with another name. Bees With Rum has summed up my position on this nonsense.

Kid Jake
2014-01-28, 11:44 PM
In my personal setting, elves basically are just people to start out with. Long lived, completely insane, tribal people. But people just the same. It's not until later in life that they get to be a little freaky. They're divided into two tribes:

The backwoods Dusk Elves that believe their race and the world as we know it is coming to an end. They cling to the old ways; venerating their ancestors and land, marking their bodies with tattoos that tell their personal/family history, and practicing ritual cannibalism and personal mutilation to grow closer with the dead. They're a bunch of paranoid isolationists that don't have to tell outsiders to leave them alone twice.

On the other side are the somewhat naïve and optimistic Dawn Elves that believe that their race is on an upswing. They've sold out the old ways and their ancestral lands for fast profit and easy living. They want everyone to see how prosperous and civilized they are(unlike their unwashed cousins), so they take great pains to project wealth and power wherever they go. They turn valuables into permanent fixtures, wearing elaborate bejeweled piercings and literally several pounds worth of precious metals twisted into irremovable gaudy bands. They're a bunch of hedonistic simps who's racial motto is "Look at me!". Needless to say those without bodyguards wind up naked in ditches.

Both groups absolutely hate each other and take extreme measures to distance themselves from anything resembling the other. By the time the Dusk Elves have a few centuries on them they're usually wild looking; with extensive tattoos and scarring that covers most of their body. The Dawn elves eventually run out of room to carry jewelry and start dipping themselves in liquid gold or platinum until they just look like a Bling Elemental.

Sometimes elves look at both sides, shake their head sadly and walk away. Then you've got your standard pretty elf, otherwise they just rapidly spin out of control. I figured since elves are always expected to be in decline I'd include a built-in reason: They're all primitive idiots.

BeerMug Paladin
2014-01-29, 12:43 AM
In the novel I've been working on for some time, elves look like mary sues, more or less. They have fair skin, are tall and slender, have pointed, angular faces, and their eyes can be just about any color. Having two different eye colors isn't common, but it's not rare either.

Every elf also has two hair colors. A primary color, and a secondary, highlighting color. Blonde and crimson, green and white or blue and silver, for some examples.

GenericGuy
2014-01-29, 02:49 AM
Culturally my elves are much more Arabic and Persian, and typically have a more tanned to brown skin tone, rather than the pale/fair skin they almost always have

Most elven men and women are over 6ft tall

Long pointed ears

Slender built

Long necks

Their hair is naturally white, but most dye it, and can't grow longer than shoulder length

Like other apes (besides humans) the black ring around the iris takes up much more space leaving no white areas of the eye visable.

Eye color's are yellow and red, those who have "natural" colors (blue green brown) suggest they have human ancestry.

Averis Vol
2014-01-29, 04:31 AM
I have been recreating the races for my custom world, though I only have goblinoids and elves fully fleshed out, and I really enjoy the way I diversified elves.

Ardhon Elves have:

eyes like pools of liquid mercury
Elongated fingers
toeless, rectangularish feet
hair that changes color with the lunar cycle
pointed ears with multiple canals that enhance hearing
enhanced senses during night time


This series of changes come from the fact that elves in the world I made are not native to earth, but actually originate from the summer moon. The original species launched a meteor into the earth, and when it burnt up on entry it sprinkled the encased seeds all over. They were then birthed from the plants that grew, and basically overnight became a fully fledged race. they were regarded with hostility at first, but none of them knew their origin, they just assumed they were some kind of sylvan seeing as they shared some features like a respect for nature and their affinity for the moon, so most folk just accepted them as a subspecies. while some retreated to forest to further search for their origins, others spread out and adopted cultural norms of other races where they went, leading to basically a super agile but extremely frail humanoid creature with extensive lifespans.

Jay R
2014-01-29, 11:41 AM
I have three ideas of how elves look:

1. Like they were drawn by Arthur Rackham,
2. Like they were drawn by Maxfield Parrish,
3. Like they were drawn by Garth Williams.

In all three cases, they are clearly distinguishable from humans.

[I note that Maxfield Parrish drawings fit the androgynous character of OotS elves.]

originalginger
2014-01-29, 03:40 PM
I have four kinds of elves in my settings.

Forest Elves Dark hair, angular features, tan skin, and brown to hazel eyes. Tend to be VERY wild in dress and general appearance. Often wear clothing make of skins, feathers and various plan fibers. Live in treetop cities high above the forest floor.

Snow Elves Light hair, blue eyes, and pale skin. Shortest and stockiest type of elf. Wear layers of furs, and live in cities carves from snow and ice, like fancier and more permanent igloos.

Deep Elves/Drow A huge departure from canon. Pinkish white skin, not pale, but white. White hair, light blue or pink eyes. Albino. Live underground, and as a result have lost all skin and hair pigment, as well as sight as we would understand it. Can still 'see' but it is more like magical sight than true sight.

High Elves/EladrinVery tall, blonde hair, green or blue eyes. Extremely angular features. Dress in silk and natural fabrics. Live in cities of stone and metal.

All of these varieties have the 'super long ans straight out' anime style ears, and none can grow any kind of facial hair. For the most part they have little outward sexual dimorphism, and most races would at a glance believe them all to be female. (for the record, my dwarves have this too, but the opposite, they all appear male, and the women have large beards and deep raspy voices)

TechnoWarforged
2014-01-29, 04:48 PM
For some strange reasons I always picture elves as scandinavian.

Rhynn
2014-01-29, 06:44 PM
For some strange reasons I always picture elves as scandinavian.

What on earth might the reason be... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljosalfar)

GenericGuy
2014-01-29, 06:54 PM
For some strange reasons I always picture elves as scandinavian.

A lot of people do, but for me since a lot of fantasy settings go for a medieval time period, I like to make them more "southern."

If the elves are a waning power, it calls to mind the Roman Empire, or if they're still the most "advanced" peoples on the earth, the middle-east and Muslim world were miles ahead of Europe at the time.

Isamu Dyson
2014-01-29, 07:15 PM
A lot of people do, but for me since a lot of fantasy settings go for a medieval time period, I like to make them more "southern."

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs14/f/2007/071/6/7/Redneck_Elf_by_KabochaN.jpg

BWR
2014-01-29, 07:21 PM
For some strange reasons I always picture elves as scandinavian.

Perfectly sensible, as Rhynn pointed. What I wonder about is why so many people seem to think dwarves should have a Scottish accent.

Isamu Dyson
2014-01-29, 07:25 PM
What I wonder about is why so many people seem to think dwarves should have a Scottish accent.

I am one of them :smallbiggrin:.

For me, it's a matter of tradition.

prufock
2014-01-29, 07:43 PM
Elves in my campaign start of looking like the standard PHB elves. However, in my campaign world, elves don't have naturally long life. They extend their life by taking "tree sleep," in which they meld with special trees for days, months, years, sometimes decades or centuries. In this stasis, they don't age, so their physical age doesn't change, but it allows them to live long lives with periods of sleep. This is also why elves normally trance instead of sleep. It's also why elves are batcrap crazy about people cutting into their forest - they could be killing sleeping elven brethren, or unknowingly chopping down the stasis trees. After all, its unknown if all of them have been discovered.

There are a limited number of these special trees, so their use is doled out by elven authorities. Important elves - royals, powerful mages, great artists, and so on - get longer sleep cycles, and thus ultimately longer lives, than your average elven commoner. An elf who chooses not to take tree sleep (an oddity and possible pariah among elves), or those who are denied any tree sleep at all (such as criminals) don't live any longer than humans.

The side effect, though, is that they start to take on the appearance of trees. It starts subtly - leaves in their hair; rougher bark-like skin; fingers and toes that begin to look like twigs or roots; teeth like small pinebuds. An elf who has taken a large amount of tree sleep (we're talking centuries here) eventually becomes a dryad - tied to the tree which gives it long life. When a dryad dies, it grows into a new sleep tree.


What I wonder about is why so many people seem to think dwarves should have a Scottish accent.

It's the beards. Other accents that seem common for dwarves are German, Russian, and Nordic. I'm not sure if those cultures are actually any more likely to have beards than any other, but it's a common stereotype.

Isamu Dyson
2014-01-29, 07:47 PM
It's the beards. Other accents that seem common for dwarves are German, Russian, and Nordic. I'm not sure if those cultures are actually any more likely to have beards than any other, but it's a common stereotype.

How about Jewish?

Weirdlet
2014-01-29, 08:26 PM
How about Jewish?

Discworld dwarves.

Coidzor
2014-01-29, 08:30 PM
How about Jewish?

That's gnomes. :smalltongue:


A lot of people do, but for me since a lot of fantasy settings go for a medieval time period, I like to make them more "southern."

One of my friends made their drow based upon Southerners pining for the Antebellum South. "The Drow will rise again!" and all that jazz. Don't think they really had that much physically different about them from bog standard drow though. I believe they lost the whole leather and lace fetish angle though.

Broken Crown
2014-01-29, 08:32 PM
What I wonder about is why so many people seem to think dwarves should have a Scottish accent.
I suspect it's because of the mining. Dwarves are traditionally Germanic or Scandinavian, but I suspect that if you're English, you'll most likely associate miners with a Scottish or at least a Northern accent. Since the archetypal D&D dwarf comes from Tolkien, there you go.

Back on topic:

The elves I use in my D&D world are, in general, very slender and angular compared to humans. Depending on the individual, they might appear either exceptionally lithe and graceful, or freakishly emaciated, from a human perspective. They have cat-like eyes: large, with vertical slit pupils, and with the irises taking up nearly all of the visible eye. Also long, pointed ears.

Elves in my world are fey, rather than humanoids. This means that a lot of their "self" is tied up in their magical existence, rather than in their physical bodies. As a result, elves' appearance varies a lot, both between individuals, and in any given individual over time.

"Normal" height for an elf is anywhere between four and six-and-a-half feet. Skin colour ranges from nearly black to nearly white, with most shades of tan or brown in between, and often some red, green, or blue tint as well. Hair colour is even more varied; sometimes it changes with the season. Elves rarely grow facial hair, but some of them grow patches of fur on their bodies, especially in the winter.

On the other hand, there's very little sexual dimorphism among elves. Since they live a long time, they don't reproduce often, so visual cues regarding sex or fertility usually aren't very important to them. They tend to look fairly androgynous, even to each other. Some of them spontaneously change sex from time to time.

Broken Crown
2014-01-29, 08:40 PM
One of my friends made their drow based upon Southerners pining for the Antebellum South. "The Drow will rise again!" and all that jazz. Don't think they really had that much physically different about them from bog standard drow though. I believe they lost the whole leather and lace fetish angle though.
Now I'm picturing a drow version of Scarlett O'Hara with a black lace parasol, being all vain and ruthless. It's perfect!

Coidzor
2014-01-29, 08:52 PM
As for my elves... well, elves, dwarves, orcs, and humans all share a common ancestor, so aside from the metaphysical brand of the tampering that made them elves, a few extra organs or organs that are reconfigured, and a tendency towards having 6 toes more often than humans do, they're basically bog standard.

Now I feel like that's just too boring now, but I don't want to make them into freaking tree-people when I already have freaking tree-people. XD

veti
2014-01-29, 08:57 PM
What always bothers me is how humans are allowed to have eight zillion different languages, but every other race in the world just gets "their race name" as a single language spoken by every single one of them.

So there's a "goblin" language, a "dwarven" language and so on. Why wouldn't there be hundreds of different languages spoken by each? Or alternatively, why wouldn't they speak the same language as the other races around them with which they trade/live?

(It's even worse in Star Trek, where there's just one 'Klingon' language for an entire freakin' planet...)

Coidzor
2014-01-29, 09:02 PM
What always bothers me is how humans are allowed to have eight zillion different languages, but every other race in the world just gets "their race name" as a single language spoken by every single one of them.

So there's a "goblin" language, a "dwarven" language and so on. Why wouldn't there be hundreds of different languages spoken by each? Or alternatively, why wouldn't they speak the same language as the other races around them with which they trade/live?

Considering they have their own racial gods that created them/adopted them/turned something else into them mucking with them all the time, I never really was all that surprised by it myself. Where they don't have those gods and they still have the same thing, that's weirder.


(It's even worse in Star Trek, where there's just one 'Klingon' language for an entire freakin' planet...)

Well, they did apparently render multiple continents uninhabitable and like to fight and dominate one another. Exterminating competing languages was probably just a matter of course, so now all that's there are dialects on the official state language which are curtailed by ???.


Now I'm picturing a drow version of Scarlett O'Hara with a black lace parasol, being all vain and ruthless. It's perfect!

Isn't it just? Everyone who heard them pitch it loved their idea. :smallbiggrin:

Slipperychicken
2014-01-29, 11:01 PM
How about Jewish?

I've heard that Tolkien's dwarves were based on Hebrews, especially their language and culture. It makes sense with things like their braided hair, being mostly refugees from their old homeland, craftsmanship skilled craftsdwarfship, and other things like their calendar. Of course, that raises some unfortunate implications regarding their greed and pride coming from negative jewish stereotypes.

If you don't believe me, here's a quote from Tolkien, ripped off of wikipedia.


"The dwarves of course are quite obviously, wouldn't you say that in many ways they remind you of the Jews? Their words are Semitic, obviously, constructed to be Semitic."

Isamu Dyson
2014-01-29, 11:05 PM
I've heard that Tolkien's dwarves were based on Hebrews, especially their language and culture. It makes sense with things like their braided hair, being mostly refugees from their old homeland, craftsmanship skilled craftsdwarfship, and other things like their calendar. Of course, that raises some unfortunate implications regarding their greed and pride coming from negative jewish stereotypes.

If you don't believe me, here's a quote from Tolkien, ripped off of wikipedia.

They have their flaws, but they also have enviable character strengths such as loyalty and determination.

Rhynn
2014-01-30, 02:12 AM
How about Jewish?


Discworld dwarves.

Tolkien's dwarves are straight-up based on Jews, and their language (Khuzdul) is Hebrew, structurally. Never mind all the possible allegory, it's basically explicit in their language.

Tolkien wasn't anti-semitic, though; the dwarves are one of the Free Peoples, no more evil than the elves.

GenericGuy
2014-01-30, 02:32 AM
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs14/f/2007/071/6/7/Redneck_Elf_by_KabochaN.jpg

Not that type of southern:smalltongue:.... my humans however:smallcool:

Since others brought up dwarves, mine are based on feudal/imperial China, have an epicanthic fold on their eyes and are all red-heads.

MirddinEmris
2014-01-30, 05:00 AM
My elves are short, sturdy and like to fight and drink (preferably simultaneously), while my dwarfs are tall, slender and good in arts and magic, though they are arrogant with a little hint of racism.

I'm very original that way.

Kitten Champion
2014-01-30, 06:07 AM
At the moment I'm strongly considering transplanting the kitsune into the elf role, and making petting zoo people in Pathfinder into major races while adding a few of my own.

So, like this

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_S3JQ27b7JJk/ShcGa4c-kMI/AAAAAAAAAdE/dO-zhovL2O4/s1600/JLMeyer_KitsuneBlog.jpg

but really like this

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs17/i/2007/219/c/c/Shadow_Kitsune_Ref_by_NovaLuna.jpg

The humans would be world's outsiders, with early industrial age steampunk blended with sorcery.

spineyrequiem
2014-01-30, 07:13 PM
Personally, mine are fairly close to your standard human-with-pointy-ears, but have some key differences.

Firstly, as well as their pointed ears, they have muscles which allow them to move these, catlike, in order to better focus on sounds. The only major difference from humans, apart from that one, is the design of their feet; their toes are lengthened and the design of their ankles means they stand and walk on their toes. This has its disadvantages; they're easier to knock over than humans and they can't jog or walk for as long before getting tired. However, they can sprint REALLY fast and have great agility. Other than that, they're your standard slender, pretty, androgynous types with straight hair on the head, minimal body hair on both sexes and stand around six foot (5'6 if they were down on their heels). Unlike humans, however, they all look very similar. This is for the simple reason that, like all the non-human sapient races, they were magically created and since it's tricky to create a large enough population at the start for proper genetic diversity, their creator decided not to bother with more than two. There are three surviving sub-races, the Plains, Black and Wood Elves, which can be distinguished by hair and eye colour, and to a lesser extent skin colour (although since this is entirely due to where they live, you can find tanned Black Elves and ghost-pale Wood Elves)

Personality-wise, I took the idea of 'superior' and just ran with it. All species are fantastically racist, to the level that Plains Elves use the same word for 'Black Elf' and 'vermin', and vice versa for the Black Elves. Their standard response to even the slightest action against one of their race (e.g. having a pocket picked) is to execute the perpetrator and his or her extended family in the most brutal way possible in order to send a message to others. If the family cannot be found, the area where the crime occurred will be cordoned off and everyone within it killed. If the city authorities refuse to allow this, then the same will happen to the city while if the country refuses, everyone in the country will be killed and their bodies sold to necromancers as cheap labour, while the land is divided up among incoming elven settlers. I also used the idea of hedonism which is often seen in less 'perfect' depictions of elves as a large part of their culture; due to the engineering done to ensure an expansionist, imaginative mindset they are dependent on stimulation of all kinds to prevent them going insane from boredom. Of course, a large number do still go insane, but that is at least for reasons other than boredom.

One thing I've never really liked is the depiction of elves as a stagnant, dying race who are still somehow superior. Although the Wood Elves are relatively technologically backward, barely industrialised and still relying on timber exports as their main source of revenue, the other two are highly industrialised, relentlessly expansionist military powers. All three races have high birth rates balanced by a ridiculous number of battle deaths. Even their marriage system is geared towards militarism; they form polygynandrous units of up to six, ensuring that there is still someone to take care of the children if (when) one or more parents die. The myth of Elven eternal youth, still occasionally repeated by storytelling nurses is just that, a myth. The majority of the population looks very young because the majority of the population will be killed before they even reach middle age.

It should perhaps be noted that the technology level is somewhere around the early 20th Century, First World War era or slightly later, as that's my favourite period of history. So industrialisation is in full swing and most armies carry a mixture of bolt-action rifles and submachineguns. The elves are right at the front of technological development, forward-looking powers which would laugh derisively at Tolkein's slow-breeding, poetry-writing elves who simply ran away when the humans began encroaching on their lands.

Then they'd shoot them in the face, plough up Mirkwood and replace Rivendell with a steel plant. Because that's pretty much how they roll with any power that isn't both potentially useful and willing to cooperate.

So if you really want to picture them, imagine a pretty, short-haired blonde in heels without the actual heels and khaki fatigues, buzzing with chemically-induced energy and pointing a submachinegun at you, a glittering bayonet mere inches away from your throat. And, of course, she's smiling.

The Oni
2014-02-01, 02:33 PM
My setting's elves are unnaturally tall, almost like basketball players, are otherwise quite pretty, and have ears more like Jak and Daxter's Volkans than LotR's elves. A lot of them have a somewhat justified fear of the dark, because when deprived of sunlight for a long time they turn into a race of furry sociopaths.

charcoalninja
2014-02-01, 09:57 PM
Mine are nomadic celts devoted to ancestor and nature worship who lack any ability or interest in mining and metalwork. So they all use primative weapons and live a very iconically aboriginal hunter/gatherer existance. Set with Pathfinder as the baseline their magic revolves around sorcerers, druids, witches, with martials being rangers or barbarians.

They are lightly armoured, have iconic tartan, but I haven't settled on an accent or anything yet.

Jacob.Tyr
2014-02-01, 10:17 PM
There are some interesting things in here, but I feel there is quite a bit of funny-hat syndrome going on as well. Someone brought up Aye-Ayes, which made me think about all the other primate lineages that could have reached a human like state on a different plane/planet/dimension/setting.

I think I'm going to just try and use this idea for standard human-like races. Halflings would be a lot more tolerable if they were bipedal Slow Loris', maybe elves could be akin to Lemurs, and so on.

Azreal
2014-02-02, 04:04 AM
The Elves in my current world are divided into two factions but basically only inhabit a single continent the size of Eurasia.

The more well known type of Elf is a High Elf, who stand above 6' on average and they have super corded muscles making them look super thin but hiding their actual strength. They are all pale, with basical Hyrulian pointed ears. Their eyes can be any color and the irises take over most of the white in them. I took their usual talent for magic and super charged it. They rule over that whole continent by force of Magic. They use a council system for the whole continent and break each area down to be managed by a High Mage who is voted out of the strongest magic users in that area. They also hold humans, dwarves, or any other race unfortunate enough to have tried to settle in their land as slaves. They keep them in line by plucking any child of any slave race who has a talent or gift for magic out of their families and raising them in special schools that would remind you of the Circle Tower in the first Dragon Age game. Luckily for the rest of the world, Elves aren't interested in anything past their Continent and a few of the surrounding islands and don't even have a standing army. They spend much of their time and energy keeping slaves in line, hunting down mages and potential mages, unlocking more secrets of magic, and looking for something unknown to most.

The lesser known Elf is of course Drow but living underground for so long they have Violet colored eyes, typical dwarven height and skin so deathly pale you can see their veins through it. They are a splinter fraction from the High Elves who abhor Arcane Magic and only practice Divine. Of course since High Elves used both kinds they were overpowered and settled underground. They live tribal and tribes have been known to take in refugees and rebels and help them to try and take down the High Elven Empire.

geonova
2014-02-02, 04:32 AM
polygynandrous

the word you are looking for is polyamorous

BWR
2014-02-02, 07:03 AM
I suspect it's because of the mining. Dwarves are traditionally Germanic or Scandinavian, but I suspect that if you're English, you'll most likely associate miners with a Scottish or at least a Northern accent. Since the archetypal D&D dwarf comes from Tolkien, there you go.


Norse is fine, because that's where Tolkien stole the names and the basic idea of the dwarves from but a Scots accent makes little sense.

Rhynn
2014-02-02, 08:11 AM
Norse is fine, because that's where Tolkien stole the names and the basic idea of the dwarves from but a Scots accent makes little sense.

That's because of the Scottish Vikings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_Scotland), I'd imagine. A bit confused, but that's how memes are.

Weirdlet
2014-02-02, 10:11 AM
I would imagine the Scottish accents come from, essentially, the hard-drinking hard-working clannish touchy-about-honor warrior stereotypes of both parties. It's an easy meme for, say, an American gamer to assign in the early days of RPGs when looking for a quick bit of flavor for a character or an NPC, and one that once established quickly becomes a go-to shortcut.

Rhynn
2014-02-02, 10:36 AM
I would imagine the Scottish accents come from, essentially, the hard-drinking hard-working clannish touchy-about-honor warrior stereotypes of both parties. It's an easy meme for, say, an American gamer to assign in the early days of RPGs when looking for a quick bit of flavor for a character or an NPC, and one that once established quickly becomes a go-to shortcut.

Yeah, the stereotype of a Scotsman basically looks like a 6'6", 220 lbs. dwarf.

spineyrequiem
2014-02-02, 05:53 PM
the word you are looking for is polyamorous

No, I really do mean polygynandrous. Polyamory generally refers to having multiple separate relationships with all parties' knowledge and consent (e.g. I have two girlfriends, they each have another boyfriend beside me, those boyfriends potentially have other girlfriends). The people do not have to be the same ones, so in theory you could have a web going out forever. Alternatively, polyamory can be used as an umbrella term for various forms of polygamy and similar.

Polygynandry refers specifically to when a single relationship involves more than one of each sex. It's something most commonly seen in dunnocks, which have a really bizarre mating system based on food supply.

So yes, I could have used polyamorous, but that would be either slightly wrong or not specific enough for my liking.

Rhynn
2014-02-02, 07:01 PM
polygynandrous elves

ElfQuest flashbacks incoming.

(Yeah, yeah, they weren't, but whatever.)

Coidzor
2014-02-02, 07:17 PM
ElfQuest flashbacks incoming.

(Yeah, yeah, they weren't, but whatever.)

Those are the ones where Elves are pseudo-werewolves from another planet that were originally highly technologically adept but went crazy and half-feral (and, IIRC, mutated somehow) when they had to adapt to living on the same planet as a bunch of ape-men that eventually evolved into human-equivalents, right?

Weirdlet
2014-02-02, 10:10 PM
Those are the ones where Elves are pseudo-werewolves from another planet that were originally highly technologically adept but went crazy and half-feral (and, IIRC, mutated somehow) when they had to adapt to living on the same planet as a bunch of ape-men that eventually evolved into human-equivalents, right?

That'd be it. But just the Wolf-riders have the wolf-blood via Timmain the shape-changer and her half-wolf son Timmorn- most of the elves except those of a very old generation have shortened in the interim between The Fall and the time when we first meet our heroes. As said later on, "-so small... a sensible change. Easier to hide, easier to live on less meat."

...I need to have a world with Wolfrider-style elves.

Rhynn
2014-02-03, 02:32 AM
Those are the ones where Elves are pseudo-werewolves from another planet that were originally highly technologically adept but went crazy and half-feral (and, IIRC, mutated somehow) when they had to adapt to living on the same planet as a bunch of ape-men that eventually evolved into human-equivalents, right?

That plus bisexual polyamory.

To be precise, the Elves were Ancient Astronauts who travelled from planet to planet, this group's ship - "the Palace" - malfunctioned because of the sabotage of the rebellious proto-troll slaves/servants, and first contact with humans was frightened cavemen (basically cro-magnon, not ape-men) bashing the super-evolved, non-violent elves' heads in all Space Odyssey monolith style. The elves had to try to survive in a world where their magic didn't work right, and one of them ended up changing shape into a wolf, staying in that shape so long she forgot she wasn't a wolf, breeding with a wolf and producing weird hybrid children whose descendants eventually became the Wolfriders who are the (original) focus of the (original) comics. Other elves started other groups. The proto-trolls became trolls.

Coidzor
2014-02-03, 03:09 AM
That plus bisexual polyamory.

To be precise, the Elves were Ancient Astronauts who travelled from planet to planet, this group's ship - "the Palace" - malfunctioned because of the sabotage of the rebellious proto-troll slaves/servants, and first contact with humans was frightened cavemen (basically cro-magnon, not ape-men) bashing the super-evolved, non-violent elves' heads in all Space Odyssey monolith style. The elves had to try to survive in a world where their magic didn't work right, and one of them ended up changing shape into a wolf, staying in that shape so long she forgot she wasn't a wolf, breeding with a wolf and producing weird hybrid children whose descendants eventually became the Wolfriders who are the (original) focus of the (original) comics. Other elves started other groups. The proto-trolls became trolls.

That... sounds an awful lot better than the conclusion I came to when I threw the book away in disgust as a twelve year old, I must admit.

Rhynn
2014-02-03, 07:18 AM
That... sounds an awful lot better than the conclusion I came to when I threw the book away in disgust as a twelve year old, I must admit.

I loved ElfQuest as a kid (and I didn't even get to read any of the naughty stuff until I was in my teens!), and still have a lot of nostalgic love for it. The "expanded universe" (non-Pini material) is mostly drek, but the original issues/books are solid stuff.

Honestly, the polyamory is not that big of a deal in the comics, it's just that it can sort of surprise a reader and seems about as out of place as the unnecessarily-long group sex scene in Artesia...

Jay R
2014-02-03, 10:41 AM
I trust that everybody here knows that the first issue of a final Elfquest mini-series, by Wendy and Richard Pini, just came out a couple of weeks ago.

http://unleashthefanboy.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Elfquest-The-Final-Quest-1.jpg

mistformsquirrl
2014-02-03, 11:01 AM
The elves in my one setting that has them* have a secret, one that even they don't really know about.

The 'elves' are in fact the descendants of humanity from a golden age of technology. Humans genetically engineered themselves for immortality, beauty and intelligence. When the old world collapsed, the elves initially tried to keep their technology, but without the infrastructure required gradually most of the great machines broke down and were abandoned. Immortality was lost, but long lives continued as the extensive modifications were partially hereditary.

Eventually the descendants of those original surviving elves forgot precisely what they were, or what their advanced technology was and could do - it all became a sort of magic after a fashion. Elven wizardry then is by and large a manipulation of what old technology still exists - carefully guarded and used only through elaborate rituals laid down millenia ago.

Elves do have pointed ears - thanks largely to a fashion craze before the end of the old world. Those who didn't have pointed ears but had children with someone who did would have children with pointed ears.

Some male elves can also grow facial hair.

So those are my elves.

*I have nothing against elves, I actually quite like them; but I rarely find a place for them in my worlds.

Coidzor
2014-02-03, 04:10 PM
I loved ElfQuest as a kid (and I didn't even get to read any of the naughty stuff until I was in my teens!), and still have a lot of nostalgic love for it. The "expanded universe" (non-Pini material) is mostly drek, but the original issues/books are solid stuff.

Honestly, the polyamory is not that big of a deal in the comics, it's just that it can sort of surprise a reader and seems about as out of place as the unnecessarily-long group sex scene in Artesia...

It wasn't the polyamory that annoyed me at the time, so much as the feeling that I was getting a face full of the author's personal sexual fantasies and fetishes. I can't even remember which book in the series it was now, aside from the cover having some sort of hybrid of cat and were-wolf on the cover. Maybe now that I know it's not *all* like that I'll give it another chance when I come across it.

Edit: I'll just... find out how long that orgy lasts and skip those pages if I must read this.... Artesia thing.

Segev
2014-02-03, 04:27 PM
My elves are the Fae princes of the Unshaped lands, banished to the perilous shores of ordered Creation. They wear assumptions of elements or bestial visage, or of dreams and passion or cerements and bone. Some command retinues of hobgoblins or drive prides of lions before them. Others bear crowns of silver or swords of molten glass or other strange sorceries, but rare indeed is the raksha lord who would wield iron against his brother.

But yeah. Oftentimes they have pointed ears.

Come! Visit my chancel. We have valets to park your behemoths, and the finest mortals Guild Silver can buy.

Ring_of_Gyges
2014-02-04, 06:18 PM
My elves are most defined by their immortality, mine don't just live a long time, they live until a violent death claims them. They're a powerful race with plenty of safe cities, so some elves get very old indeed.

Additionally they're a gerontocracy, the older you are the more you're assumed to know about things and the more respect/authority/power you're given. All very well for the old, but what about the young?

IRL the old guard *die*. You might cringe at how racist your grandmother sounds, but eventually she'll die and those old attitudes will die with her. Not so with elves, cultural change is glacially slow making them slow to adapt to changing conditions and new information.

IRL people in positions of power get old and retire, or they get old and die. A human king might be a great king or a real bastard, but give it a couple decades and he'll be gone and his ambitious son will be king. Not so elves, if you're at the bottom of the feudal hierarchy you're not getting promoted for centuries. The elven emperor in my world, for example, has been on the throne for six thousand years. His kids have no illusions about how long it will be before their generation gets a crack at power. If you're waiting to inherit the throne of Lothlorien, you have to remember that Galadriel is literally older than the moon and showing no signs of going anywhere. Frustrated ambition that isn't channeled anywhere useful causes problems.

The worst problems hit young elves before the remarkably hidebound elders really understood what was happening. Without positions of authority they became listless and decadent. All the important work was done by beings hundreds or thousands of years older than them and they were basically treated as incompetent kids despite being a couple hundred years old themselves. Without substantive authority over anything in the empire, they fell into lives of art, poetry, and pleasure, and some eventually fell into lives of decadence, vanity, and nihilism.

That's where my dark elves come from. They're genetically identical to normal elves, they're just the descendants (or originators) of a subset of elves who went really really wrong. Like started worshipping hedonistic evil gods wrong. A revolution against the old guard was crushed and the survivors fled to form their own communities and nations.

The last thousand years have seen the elves trying to prevent this sort of thing from happening again by making structural changes to their society with varying degrees of success and some spectacular failures. For example, expansionist wars of aggression to soak up the energy and ambition of the ever growing population of young elves, all for the good of the conquered of course, bringing civilization to the savages and all that, but expansionist aggression all the same. That ended badly when too many of the subjugated races learned too many of the elves tricks and decided they would prefer to rule themselves thank you.

Rhynn
2014-02-04, 06:34 PM
Edit: I'll just... find out how long that orgy lasts and skip those pages if I must read this.... Artesia thing.

:smallbiggrin:

It's one of the best fantasy comics around, and it's a damn shame Mark Smylie hasn't put out more in years. It's not that the sex comes out of nowhere, it's just that that particular sex scene doesn't feel like it serves a purpose (the early ones are more characterizing or plot-advancing) and it goes on for longer (volume 3, Artesia Afire, pages 76 - 81).

I think the main objection people have is a sort of cultural idea that a woman having sex with multiple men is "wrong"; but the sex is largely used to illustrate that Artesia is a sort of female Conan, powerful, extremely comfortable with her sexuality, and physically the match for any man (the first sex scene very much underlines that she is in no danger from the lusts of men). A similar scene with one man and several women would draw very different criticisms. Artesia's sexuality is actually a pretty important deal - the central conflict of the story is a social one between cultures and systems of belief, with a heavily patriarchal religion and culture seeking to control women and their sexuality while permitting men sexual freedom - mistresses, etc. - and then blaming women for the infidelity of men. The cliffhanger at the end of the last released comic was a messenger of the king informing Artesia she would be charged with witchcraft and seduction for causing men to be unfaithful...

Also, the first issue involves Artesia in some fanservice-y armor, but Smylie acknowledged it was a bad decision (and honestly, to me, it feels out of place in a comic that's otherwise forthright, comfortable, and mostly natural about sex) and explained his poor reasoning, and then never did that again. There's a lot of full nudity of both sexes, but it's IMO done right. There's some male gaze-yness going on, but that's probably unavoidable - and there's plenty of male nudity balancing it, IMO. But the comic also very much acknowledges its portraying a world where inequality and power structures, including patriarchy, exists.

So uh yeah. Artesia is a bit complicated, but great.

At least the author never turned into a lunatic fundamentalist writing screeds about brain-sucking women and the collapse of society and evils of "the gays" and feminism and how the feminine void sucks the creative energy out of men (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebus). (Up until volume 8 or so, that's my second-favorite fantasy comic, but damn he went crazy.)

Yora
2014-02-07, 08:17 AM
I actually like what they did with Elves in Dragon Age 2. They have facial features that a clearly different from those of humans, while still being relatively pretty. (Anyone who complains about them looking awful always uses the same two terrible screenshots.)

With height, I usually go with human average, but a much more narrow range between individuals. Almost all elves are taller than short humans, but shorter particularly than tall humans.
Pointed ears of course, but relatively subtle and not much longer, like in the LotR movies or Vulcans.
Something specific to my homebrew setting is that all elves have dark hair, with blond and red hair only found in tribes with lots of half-elves.
And while not visible, they are fully grown around 30 and live only for up to 300 or in very rare cases just up to 400 years.

Quantum Goblin
2014-02-14, 10:21 PM
I'm making a entire game, and all my Fey, including elves, will be insectoid/humanoid beings from a parallel universe.

Not even sure where I'm going with this.

Slipperychicken
2014-02-15, 01:16 PM
I'm making a entire game, and all my Fey, including elves, will be insectoid/humanoid beings from a parallel universe.


Doesn't Changeling do something like this? D&D also has an optional Plane of Faerie you could look to for inspiration.

Yora
2014-02-15, 01:35 PM
Engel seems to have something like that. But it's a really obscure game and difficult to find any real info about it.

JusticeZero
2014-02-15, 06:56 PM
I don't use elves, dwarves, or any of the other Tolkien tropes full stop. Either all human, or I pull a selection of races out of other sources and use only those.

Aron Times
2014-02-17, 10:58 PM
This is how elves should look like:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=9669&type=card

Palanan
2014-02-17, 11:33 PM
Originally Posted by prufrock
...in my campaign world, elves don't have naturally long life. They extend their life by taking "tree sleep," in which they meld with special trees for days, months, years, sometimes decades or centuries. In this stasis, they don't age, so their physical age doesn't change, but it allows them to live long lives with periods of sleep.

Coolest concept in the thread so far. Reminds me of the Worthing Saga by Orson Scott Card.


Originally Posted by Broken Crown
Now I'm picturing a drow version of Scarlett O'Hara with a black lace parasol, being all vain and ruthless. It's perfect!

But this is a close second. :smallbiggrin:


Originally Posted by Jay R
I trust that everybody here knows that the first issue of a final Elfquest mini-series, by Wendy and Richard Pini, just came out a couple of weeks ago.

Actually I don't think I've thought about it in twenty years.

And I didn't even get to the polywhatever part. I never really got into ElfQuest at all; just seemed too cheesy to me.


Originally Posted by JusticeZero
I don't use elves, dwarves, or any of the other Tolkien tropes full stop. Either all human, or I pull a selection of races out of other sources and use only those.

What other combos of races do you use?