Monster-ception! (A monster within a monster)

[zephyrkinetic]

So I had this idea that I think is too awesome to not have already been done 100 times over. I'm throwing my players at a Gelatinous Cube - thing is, all of the characteristic bits of detritus in that cube turn out to be a Shrapnyl, which they will have to fight as well.

I'm looking for two things, here:
1) Is there some reason that I'm not seeing that this would be prohibited by the RAW?
2) Has anyone done this or something similar, and if so, how did it work out?

[Socksy]

That sounds pretty awesome! RAW is broken anyway, but I can't immediately think of anything wrong with it!

[XionUnborn01]

Oh my god. I would go nuts as a character!

DM: You see a murky cube in the hallway, with your knowledge you clearly see it's a gelatinous cube with bits of what look to be armor from previous victims inside it.

*fight ensues*

DM: You failed your grapple! Oh no! You get pulled into the cube! On it's next turn you start getting attacked by the metal inside it, as though it were alive.

PC: Wait what?

PC2: I attack the...helmet?

DM: Suddenly the metal explodes out of the cube, let's check the damage.

PCs: What is happening?!?!

[Kuulvheysoon]

There actually is a monster like this... the Brood Heart Beetle (IIRC). MM3 - when it dies, it releases a swarm of it's flying larvae (if it hasn't already released them).

[Irk]

Actually, this is totally legal by RAW and areally cool idea. A gelatinous cube can engulf a creature., and as ling as that creature is immune to acid and paralysis, it will be fine once the gelatinous cube had been eviscerated. While the cube's alive, the creature is considered grappled.
Relevant text:

Engulf (Ex)
Although it moves slowly, a gelatinous cube can simply mow down Large or smaller creatures as a standard action. It cannot make a slam attack during a round in which it engulfs. The gelatinous cube merely has to move over the opponents, affecting as many as it can cover. Opponents can make opportunity attacks against the cube, but if they do so they are not entitled to a saving throw. Those who do not attempt attacks of opportunity must succeed on a DC 13 Reflex save or be engulfed; on a success, they are pushed back or aside (opponent’s choice) as the cube moves forward. Engulfed creatures are subject to the cube’s paralysis and acid, and are considered to be grappled and trapped within its body. The save DC is Strength-based and includes a +1 racial bonus.
Emphasis mine.

[Esquire]

You might even get particularly clever acid-proof creatures deliberately seeking out cubes to live inside... a whole new ecosystem could arise.

[Irk]

You might even get particularly clever acid-proof creatures deliberately seeking out cubes to live inside... a whole new ecosystem could arise.

Again, this is such a good idea! I think the term is a commensal relationship; the gelatinous cube isn't harmed, but the other organism receives some sort of advantage, that being protection and a means to perform ambush attacks. It's a form of symbiosis.

[Esquire]

Exactly. Hmm... I'm imagining some kind of tiny rust beetle that eats the armor of dead adventurers. You'd need a ridiculously-high-traffic-and-lethality dungeon, though.

[Irk]

I got it. Acid born rust monsters with the dragonheart presence graft are immune to paralysis and acid. Stick 'em inside the gelatinous cube monks from this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20060922a), and you'll definitely have interesting encounters. Mix it up by using the rust mosnter variants from this homebrew (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14690829&postcount=2) and other ooze variants.

[Esquire]

Oh, that's happening in the next campaign I run. :smallsmile:

[The Random NPC]

I'm going to leave this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132720) here...

[DJroboninja]

...we have to go deeper.

A Great Black Wyrm with a Gelatinous Cube inside it, which itself contains a Shrapnyl. The dragon swallows you whole, and you have to fight the cube in its gullet. When the cube is destroyed, the Shrapnyl enters the fray and your PCs lose all respect for you.

Anyone know a way to make a mimic immune to paralysis?

If so, Shrapnyl inside a Cube inside an advanced Mimic pretending to be a gelatinous cube inside a gargantuan black dragon with severe acid reflux.

This is why Gary Gygax invented D&D.

[ChaoticDitz]

Again, this is such a good idea! I think the term is a commensal relationship; the gelatinous cube isn't harmed, but the other organism receives some sort of advantage, that being protection and a means to perform ambush attacks. It's a form of symbiosis.

Technically speaking, if used in the way the OP is intending (though it probably wouldn't quite work by RAW) the Shrapnyl would also provide a layer of defense for the gelatinous cube. So it's fully symbiotic.

This is a really awesome idea! I would love my DM forever by giving me a creative challenge like this! A few things, though. One, give it a template or something that allows the Shrapnyl to use poison or paralysis effects of it own independently, and possibly a vampiric effect too though I don't know how you would work something like that; that would play into this whole parasitic attachment shtick.

Second, by RAW, Shrapnyl are Large, so that may or may not present a problem with the grappling/swallowing depending on how big your cube is. But it's one of the most ignorable RAW things I've ever seen, so... Do what you will.

EDIT: Just re-read the GC's entry, never mind that RAW concern.

[Popertop]

This is a great idea and I'm totally stealing this.

If a PC gets immunity to paralysis, is there any way they could command, dominate, or maybe even Handle Animal to get a cube as its buddy?

[WhamBamSam]

This is a great idea and I'm totally stealing this.

If a PC gets immunity to paralysis, is there any way they could command, dominate, or maybe even Handle Animal to get a cube as its buddy?The slime domain lets you rebuke oozes. That might suit your purposes.

Also, this thread is glorious.

[MrNobody]

So, why not a deadly living aquarium?
Take a gelatinous cube, put inside a swarm of adicborn half-dragon piranhas (acid born for acid immunity and acid-breathing, half dragon for paralisis immunity) and... ta-dah! you got one.

The PCs are walking in the dungeon, the living aquarium stays still in his place. Then the PCs notice it. "Oh, an aquarium! Cool! Look at those tiny coloured fishes!". They shout.
They slowly get closer and closer. In front of an aquarium, no one can resist the urge of tapping on the glass. And when a Pc is 1/10 inch form tapping, the cube strikes! He engulfes the pc, and grapples him till he gets paralyzed. In the meantime, pirahnas had scent of his melting flesh, and start biting and grinding. When the pc fails his check against paralisis, he can no longer pass his Ref. against the swarm attack. In a nick of time, the pc is gone, flesh eaten, bone melted by the terrifying Living Aquarium.

[Thurbane]

Nice concept.

It's this kind of concept that makes me like the Hivenest template so much. What's more it doesn't increase the CR of the host.

I'm looking for a nice swarm to infest a tendriculos with for my next campaign...

[MrNobody]

I'm looking for a nice swarm to infest a tendriculos with for my next campaign...

A swarm of woodling (MMIII template) snakes? They have to beat the tendriculos and, when he collapses, the snakes swarm out. It will look like the tendriculos melt and the living vines start attacking on their own.

[zephyrkinetic]

Thanks for all the responses, everyone!

Only thing I want to add is that I am pretty sure the RAW specifically states a Gelatinous Cube's acid does not harm metal or stone. Which is what a Shrapnyl is. So, boom.

I'm super glad everyone thinks this is as awesome as I do. I am amazed this doesn't seem to have been done already. o__O

[Kuulvheysoon]

Nice concept.

It's this kind of concept that makes me like the Hivenest template so much. What's more it doesn't increase the CR of the host.

I'm looking for a nice swarm to infest a tendriculos with for my next campaign...

A Dread Blossom Swarm could be amusing - at first, they just think that it's the prettiest tendriculos because it's covered in flowers...

[Phelix-Mu]

I was really kind of hoping that this would be some large-dumb monster that had some super-genius incorporeal monster inside it, using Lucid Dreaming or Oneiromancy something to come out of the big monster and kill you with death dreams.

Ah, right! Kalaraq quori living inside a hill giant or something. Hmm.

[Vhaidara]

This is a great idea and I'm totally stealing this.

If a PC gets immunity to paralysis, is there any way they could command, dominate, or maybe even Handle Animal to get a cube as its buddy?

Arms and Equipment Guide: Amulet of Ooze Riding. If an ooze would engulf you, you get an acid proof hamster ball. The, because they hunt by scent and they now smell like food, they go for vibrations. So you pound on the side.

I have 3 DMs. They have all said no to this as a form of national cavalry.

[fishyfishyfishy]

I've done swarms of insects and swarms of spiders inside zombies, but this is a whole new level of awesome.

[Uncle Pine]

Acidborn sharks inside the BBEG's pool of acid was already awesome but... acidborn sharks (somehow immune to paralysis, half-dragon would work but something less obvious would be better*) inside gelatinous cubes? This is genius! You sir made my say.

*Otherwise just stick to acidborn half-black dragon sharks and if the gelatinous cube's target manage to escape the grapple: breath weapon!

[zephyrkinetic]

I have 3 DMs. They have all said no to this as a form of national cavalry.

Sounds like you need to sit at some new tables. :smalltongue: