Executioner Class: pending update

[Elysian Blade]

The Executioner


HD d10
Skill Points Each level: 4+int modifier

Proficient with Simple/ Martial Weapons and light and medium armor.

Class skills: Balance, Bluff, Gather Information, Intimidate, Profession(Execution), Search, Spot, Use rope, Knowledge (Local).

Executioners: start with the ability true death. Weapon focus with one weapon of their choice and critical specialist.

True Death (Ex): True Death means the things that an executioner kills dies for good or makes the Resurrection of the deceased more difficult.
Weapon Focus: An Executioner needs to be good with wielding his weapons before and execution. He gets a +1 to hit on his attack rolls.
Critical Specialist (Ex): An Executioner needs to be able to perform his task at any costs this ability gives him the power to perform a critical on any target even to the inanimated objects. (Also including plants, undead, constructs.)

Anymore just ask me.

{table=head]Level| Base Attack Bonus | Fortitude | Reflex | Will | Special
1st| +1 | +1 | +0 | +1 | Requiem, Dooms Blade, Inescapable Nightmare
2nd| +2 | +1 | +0 | +1 | Crippling Terror, Critical Override, Swift Tracker
3rd| +3 | +2 | +1 | +2 | Weapon Specialization, Hangman's Noose
4th| +4 | +2 | +1 | +2 | Improved Critical Range, Mark of the Guilty
5th| +5 | +3 | +1 | +3 | Requiem, Frightful Presence, Shadow Prison
6th| +6/+1 | +3 | +2 | +3 | Improved Critical Multiplier, Deaths's Judgement
7th| +7/+2 | +3 | +2 | +3 | Greater Critical Override, Crippling Strike
8th| +8/+3 | +4 | +2 | +4 | Greater Critical Range, Hunters Dedication
9th| +9/+4 | +4 | +3 | +4 | Requiem, Death's Grasp, Aura of Fear
10th| +10/+5 | +5 | +3 | +5 | Greater Critical Multiplier, Frightful Presence, Shadow Prison, Crippling Terror
11th| +11/+6/+1 | +5 | +3 | +5 | Deaths Judgement, Aura of Menice
12th| +12/+7/+2 | +6 | +4 | +6 | Ultimate Critical Range, Greatest Critical Override
13th| +13/+8/+3 | +6 | +4 | +6 | Death's Grasp, Aura of Death
14th| +14/+9/+4 | +6 | +4 | +6 | Greater Improved Critical Multiplier, Track the Trackless
15th| +15/+10/+5 | +7 | +5 | +7 | Frightful Presence, Shadow Prison, Unmovable
16th| +16/+11/+6/+1 | +7 | +5 | +7 | Unstoppable, Death's Judgement
17th| +17/+12/+7/+2 | +8 | +5 | +8 | Requiem, Death's Grasp, Ubstoppable Critical Override
18th| +18/+13/+8/+3 | +8 | +6 | +8 | Hand of Death, Shielded Mind
19th| +19/+14/+9/+4 | +8 | +6 | +8 | Unmovable, Find the Path
20th| +20/+15/+10/+5 | +9 | +6 | +9 | Frightful Presence, Shadow Prison, Unstoppable [/table]



Requiem [Ex]:
An Executioner does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity by performing a Coup de Grace.

Furthermore, the effort required for an Executioner to perform a Coup de Grace decreases to a Standard Action at level 9 or a Swift Action at level 17.

Helpless opponents, in a square threatened by the Executioner, provoke a Coup de Grace Attack of Opportunity from the Executioner at level 5. A creature can only provoke an Attack of Opportunity, of this type, once per round.

Crippling Terror [Su]:
The Executioner can make a Demoralize Opponent check (as a standard action at level 2, swift action at level 10) against any creature that enters, or starts their turn in, a square that they threaten. The check granted by this ability can only be made once, per creature, per round.

Creatures must make a successful Will saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Charisma modifier), or be paralyzed for 1 round, if they become Panicked while occupying a square threatened by the Executioner. This is a Supernatural Ability.


Critical Override [Ex] : You get it 2nd level, and every 5 levels afterward. Critical override is first when you roll in your crit range you automatically hit and you get your first multiplier confirmed. So at 2nd level you get *2 confirmed at 7th level its a *3 at 12th level its a *4 at 17 level its a *5 confimed on your critical multiplier.


Weapon Specialization: Is even futhrer profiecent with his weapon getting a futher +1 to attack rolls and for dmg.

Critical Range [Ex] : Starting at level 4 and every 4 levels after you get another Critical Range. You increase you critical range by one every time you get this ability applies to all weapons you have Weapon focus with.

Critical Multiplier [Ex] : Starting at level 6 and every 4 levels after you get Critical Multiplier. You increase the critical multiplier on any weapon you have focus with by 1.

Dooms Blade [Ex] : When the executioner confirms a critical you roll a 1d20 if it hits your critical the opponent is helpless for 1round+ 1/2 of your executioner level.

Inescapable Nightmare [Su] : Squares threatened by the executioner are considered difficult terrain for opponents that are Shaken, Frightened, Panicked.

Swift Tracker [Ex] : A bloodhound can move at his normal speed while following tracks.

Hangman's Noose [Su] : Starting at level 3 the Executioner gets to use a noose made out of shadows reaching up to 15ft. Increasing by 5ft every level after 3rd.
To resist Hangman's Noose attack its your grapple check versus the opposed grapple check. If the victim fails they are helpless and cant move.
The executioner can pull the victim 5ft per round by doing this you give them a chance to free himself by beating your previous grapple check at a -5 penalty to break free.
Usable 3 times per day +1/2 your executioner level per day.

[Jergmo]

I think a class ability that interacts with chance to critical hit would be good for the class, be it a free feat with a specific weapon (most likely two-handed axes), or a static increase in multiplier or threat range. With a two-handed weapon, which only crits on a 20 anyway, a static class bonus would equal up to a maximum threat range of 17-20, including feats.

[Elysian Blade]

I think a class ability that interacts with chance to critical hit would be good for the class, be it a free feat with a specific weapon (most likely two-handed axes), or a static increase in multiplier or threat range. With a two-handed weapon, which only crits on a 20 anyway, a static class bonus would equal up to a maximum threat range of 17-20, including feats.

I was thinking along those lines every 4lvls he gets a plus one on crit range making a greatsword that's normally 19-20 is now 18-20 and every 5 lvls or I was thinking 6 increase the crit multipler so again with greatsword with a crit *2 is now a crit *3.

What do you think?

[Elysian Blade]

So if my counting is correct it will be around 14-20 for a critical on a greatsword and a *6 for the critical is that to powerful? :smallconfused:

1d20+15 dmg 2d6

edit forgot you cant roll in homebrew. :smallsigh:

[Elysian Blade]

So far what do you think of the class so far?:smallconfused:

[toapat]

So far what do you think of the class so far?:smallconfused:

the fact is you are approaching the class wrong, it should specialize in putting its opponents into situations where it can coup'de'gras (literally, the maneuver which is used for execution) them, then making sure that it kills the target.

it probably should be a 5-10 level PrC and not a 20 level base class, because there just isnt enough awesome one can squeeze out of Hold Person > Coup De Gras

the capstone of course would be "Can coup De Gras at all times"

[Elysian Blade]

the fact is you are approaching the class wrong, it should specialize in putting its opponents into situations where it can coup'de'gras (literally, the maneuver which is used for execution) them, then making sure that it kills the target.

it probably should be a 5-10 level PrC and not a 20 level base class, because there just isnt enough awesome one can squeeze out of Hold Person > Coup De Gras

the capstone of course would be "Can coup De Gras at all times"

I thought the way we set it up was coup de gras at all times. :smallbiggrin:

I was thinking all weapons they have weapon focus in the get the perk of the crit for and weapon specialization gives them the crit multiplier.

[Ziegander]

Your table is very, very wrong, in all the ways. Use this (http://pifro.com/dnd/NEW/).

What is its Hit Die? Class skills? How many skill points per level does it get? What proficiencies does it have? Can it accomplish anything at all outside of combat?

Right now, all you have is a big, unseemly pile of damage and not only is it far less reliable damage than the Fighter, but it is also less good at hitting things than the Fighter... Which is to say, this guy is really, really bad at D&D.

[Elysian Blade]

Your table is very, very wrong, in all the ways. Use this (http://pifro.com/dnd/NEW/).

What is its Hit Die? Class skills? How many skill points per level does it get? What proficiencies does it have? Can it accomplish anything at all outside of combat?

Right now, all you have is a big, unseemly pile of damage and not only is it far less reliable damage than the Fighter, but it is also less good at hitting things than the Fighter... Which is to say, this guy is really, really bad at D&D.

hd 8
profiecent with simple and martal weapons. Only light armor no shields.
skill point 2+int.

Also I was thinking of a new move. pending it 2-morrow

[Grod_The_Giant]

The base attack progression and saves are both off-- check the table of an existing class for details. (Pro tip: Copy the table into a plain text editor like Notepad. Copy from Notepad to Word or something like that, then do a find-and-replace to turn tabs into "|." Then copy the whole thing to the forum).

But the bigger issue is, as toapat noted, that this isn't a base class. A concept as narrow as "critical hit specialist" belongs as a prestige class. Right now, you're trying to stretch one ability (Improved Critical) over 20 levels, so of course the class looks both empty and broken.

A good class has both active and passive abilities. Look at, oh, the Paladin-- it gets a few things it can do on its turn (smite, lay on hands, turn undead, cast spells) and a few "always on" abilities (aura of courage, divine grace). Right now, all you've got is one scaling passive ability.

If you want suggestions for more active abilities, I'd start coming up with special abilities that trigger on critical hits. Maybe trade critical multipliers for special effects-- drop the multiplier by one point to nauseate a foe on a crit, or make a free intimidate check on everyone in range, or stuff like that.

And if you want suggestions for other things... you mention "head hunter" things, so make the class into a hunter of men, like the ranger is a hunter of beasts. Give him skills and abilities related to tracking people down, getting the truth out of them, and so on-- Judge Dredd style.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

The Reaper

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m02ix9g7Wb1r1svbuo2_500.png

Entry Requirements:
Skill: Intimidate: 8 ranks
Feat: Power Attack
Special: Must have delivered a lethal Coup de Grace.

Hit Die:
d8.

Class Skills:
Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Gather Information (Cha),
Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Int),
Perform (Cha), Search (Wis), Sleight Of Hand (Dex), Speak Language,
Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex)

Skill Points at Each Level:
4 + Int modifier

The Reaper:


Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Special


1st
+1
+2
+0
+2
Requiem: Standard, Subjugation


2nd
+2
+3
+0
+3
Mortal Fear, The Face of Death


3rd
+3
+3
+1
+3
Requiem: Swift, Crippling Terror


4th
+4
+4
+1
+4
Inescapable Nightmare, Final Repose


5th
+5
+4
+1
+4
Requiem: Attack of Opportunity



Reapers are proficient with Simple / Martial Weapons and Light Armor.


Requiem (Ex):
A Reaper does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity by performing a Coup de Grace.

Furthermore, the time required for a Reaper to perform a Coup de Grace decreases to a Standard Action at level 1 or a Swift Action at level 3.

At level 5, the Reaper can make a special Coup de Grace Attack of Opportunity against Helpless opponents they threaten. The Reaper can only make one such Attack of Opportunity, per creature, per round.


Subjugation (Ex):
The Reaper adds their class level to their Grapple and Intimidation checks. Size modifiers are not added when these checks are rolled against the Reaper nor are they subtracted when the Reaper rolls these checks against opponents.


Mortal Fear (Ex):
The Reaper's class abilities, and Coup de Grace attempts, bypass immunity and skill use restrictions.


The Face of Death (Ex):
The Reaper can make a special Demoralize Opponent check (as a Free Action) against any creature that enters, or starts their turn in, a square threatened by them.

This ability can only be rolled once, per creature, per round.


Crippling Terror (Su):
Creatures must make a successful Will saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Charisma modifier), or be paralyzed for 1 round, if they become Panicked while occupying a square threatened by the Reaper.


Inescapable Nightmare (Su):
Squares threatened by the Reaper are considered difficult terrain for opponents that are Shaken, Frightened, or Panicked.

Creatures grappled by the Reaper are treated as though they occupy a threatened square for the purpose of the Reaper's class abilities.


Final Repose (Su):
Creatures killed by the Reaper cannot be resurrected, or reanimated (as either undead or unliving), with any magic less potent than a Miracle or Wish.

[Ziegander]

At 20th level, with +15 BAB, 30 Str, and a +5 Greataxe, you're looking at +31/+26/+21 to hit, 1d12+22 damage (15-20, x7). Versus AC 32, that means, assuming all crits are confirmed, you'll deal an average of ~124 damage per round. That's actually somewhat respectable considering the medium BAB, no Power Attack, nothing but your class features doing the work. I would not consider that to be broken (a single crit is nearly 200 damage, but, hey, it's 20th level, who's counting).

Unfortunately at lower levels you will be struggling to keep up with other warriors. I would give this guy at least d10 HD, heavy armor and shields, as well as 6 skill points per level. Then fill in the dead levels with Track and things from the Bloodhound prestige class (you can find it at D&D Tools; obviously ignoring stuff like Nonlethal Force and Bring 'em Back Alive if you really want that lethal feel).

[Elysian Blade]

At 20th level, with +15 BAB, 30 Str, and a +5 Greataxe, you're looking at +31/+26/+21 to hit, 1d12+22 damage (15-20, x7). Versus AC 32, that means, assuming all crits are confirmed, you'll deal an average of ~124 damage per round. That's actually somewhat respectable considering the medium BAB, no Power Attack, nothing but your class features doing the work. I would not consider that to be broken (a single crit is nearly 200 damage, but, hey, it's 20th level, who's counting).

Unfortunately at lower levels you will be struggling to keep up with other warriors. I would give this guy at least d10 HD, heavy armor and shields, as well as 6 skill points per level. Then fill in the dead levels with Track and things from the Bloodhound prestige class (you can find it at D&D Tools; obviously ignoring stuff like Nonlethal Force and Bring 'em Back Alive if you really want that lethal feel).

Yeah I been thinking of making it a prestige class as for the move I was thinking of don't have a name but read it out please.

???? When the executioner confirms a hit you roll a 1d20 if it hits your critical the opponent is helpless for 1round+ 1/2 of your executioner lvl.

What do you thinking about that for a move?

Also I could make it like that but if we keep up what an executioner does maybe each person he kills he recovers 1hp (cant be higher then their original health)

[Elysian Blade]

Whipped this together after glancing over the thread.
If nothing else, I hope it will provide inspiration:

------------------------------

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m02ix9g7Wb1r1svbuo2_500.png

Entry Requirements:
Skill: Intimidate: 8 ranks
Feat: Power Attack
Special: Must have delivered a lethal Coup de Grace.

Hit Die:
d8.

Class Skills:
Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Gather Information (Cha),
Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Int),
Perform (Cha), Search (Wis), Sleight Of Hand (Dex), Speak Language,
Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex)

Skill Points at Each Level:
4 + Int modifier

The Executioner:
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Requiem: Standard, Crippling Terror

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Requiem: Swift, Inescapable Nightmare

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Requiem: Attack of Opportunity[/table]

Executioners are proficient with Simple / Martial Weapons and Light Armor.


Requiem [Ex]:
An Executioner does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity by performing a Coup de Grace.

Furthermore, the effort required for an Executioner to perform a Coup de Grace decreases to a Standard Action at level 1 or a Swift Action at level 2.

Helpless opponents, in a square threatened by the Executioner, provoke a Coup de Grace Attack of Opportunity from the Executioner at level 3. A creature can only provoke an Attack of Opportunity, of this type, once per round.


Crippling Terror [Ex and Su]:
The Executioner can make a Demoralize Opponent check (as a Free Action) against any creature that enters, or starts their turn in, a square that they threaten. The check granted by this ability can only be made once, per creature, per round. This is an Extraordinary Ability.

Creatures must make a successful Will saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Charisma modifier), or be paralyzed for 1 round, if they become Panicked while occupying a square threatened by the Executioner. This is a Supernatural Ability.


Inescapable Nightmare [Su]:
Squares threatened by the Executioner are considered difficult terrain for opponents that are Shaken, Frightened, or Panicked.

I like this we can take it even farther. By giving them more abilities to subdue enemies. We can give it abilities after they do a coup de grace also like a +2ac or something like that.

[Veklim]

If you want suggestions for more active abilities, I'd start coming up with special abilities that trigger on critical hits. Maybe trade critical multipliers for special effects-- drop the multiplier by one point to nauseate a foe on a crit, or make a free intimidate check on everyone in range, or stuff like that.

That was pretty much my first thought too, makes it work a bit like ambush feats, so you can trade one multiplier for a stun effect, two multipliers for a free trip/disarm effect, three multipliers for paralysis, etc... I do think this is a PrC though, nowhere near enough scope to be a base class. Also, you seem to like the average save progression, I do too as it happens, but it puts a lot of people off since it's not used in any official anything I've seen for 3.5, you might have a hard time getting people on board with it's use (I know I have...)

[Elysian Blade]

That was pretty much my first thought too, makes it work a bit like ambush feats, so you can trade one multiplier for a stun effect, two multipliers for a free trip/disarm effect, three multipliers for paralysis, etc... I do think this is a PrC though, nowhere near enough scope to be a base class. Also, you seem to like the average save progression, I do too as it happens, but it puts a lot of people off since it's not used in any official anything I've seen for 3.5, you might have a hard time getting people on board with it's use (I know I have...)

I am going to see what I can do with it. and see how far this class can go.

[Elysian Blade]

Improved the first post tell me what you think?

[toapat]

I am going to see what I can do with it. and see how far this class can go.

you only have 6 "real" class features, which even going by standards of the game is only enough for a 10 level PRC (a full class should have at minimum 10, and that is counting each level of spellcasting) classes should always be at least half full, preferable 3/4 to 5/4 full, anthing over 5/4 can be done with proper knowledge but also requires reworking the table formatting to be readable, like on the joint project fighter from long ago (last year?) where i pulled out at least 3 mechanics from the specials table to make it readable.

[Elysian Blade]

you only have 6 "real" class features, which even going by standards of the game is only enough for a 10 level PRC (a full class should have at minimum 10, and that is counting each level of spellcasting) classes should always be at least half full, preferable 3/4 to 5/4 full, anthing over 5/4 can be done with proper knowledge but also requires reworking the table formatting to be readable, like on the joint project fighter from long ago (last year?) where i pulled out at least 3 mechanics from the specials table to make it readable.

What do you suggest I don't know anything about the bloodhunter class so don't know what to take. And I was thinking if he killed someone he recovers 1health or gets fast healing.

Additional Ideas for the class

To make it gain a temporary bonus from doing a coup de grace.
To make it be able to keep something dead that the executioner killed.


edit: I thought it had 8 class features in it?

[toapat]

What do you suggest I don't know anything about the bloodhunter class so don't know what to take. And I was thinking if he killed someone he recovers 1health or gets fast healing.

Additional Ideas for the class

To make it gain a temporary bonus from doing a coup de grace.
To make it be able to keep something dead that the executioner killed.


edit: I thought it had 8 class features in it?

Weapon focus/Weapon Specialization dont count, and even when they can (that is to say, when granting the actual whole Weapon Mastery line, or when you can retrain the designated weapons), they only count as a single class feature.

as for additional ideas, probably tracking skills, extra sensory attributes, the ability to bypass fortification/immunity to name a few.

[Elysian Blade]

Weapon focus/Weapon Specialization dont count, and even when they can (that is to say, when granting the actual whole Weapon Mastery line, or when you can retrain the designated weapons), they only count as a single class feature.

as for additional ideas, probably tracking skills, extra sensory attributes, the ability to bypass fortification/immunity to name a few.

What about also adding the ability to get the move unstoppable to doors and inanimate objects?

[Elysian Blade]

Maybe put in bulwark of defense? And maybe monkey grip?

[Veklim]

Feats do not make a class...the fighter has proven this fact. What you need are class FEATURES, not feats. Still say this should be a PrC too...as it stands just now, every executioner will look just about identical, a base class should give you scope for multiple choices, all this does is hit stuff for crits.

[Elysian Blade]

Since I am not doing this rightI would like it if you all submit what you think it should look like and we all shall vote for the best. :smallbiggrin:

[Cloud]

If the whole aim of the class is well, killing people dead, as an executioner, with no other redeeming skills...really I'd probably make this a full BAB class. I like the 'medium' save progression, though I'd probably only use it once and make Fort a full progression. The skills also seem all other the place...why Charisma and Intelligence based skills (well aside from intimidate, that's obvious), before any of the physical skills (aside from balance which still seems, well, odd to pick that other any of the strength based skills). Execution strikes me more as a thing that would be a profession then a performance...if you feel the need to make it a skill at all.

Requiem: Not a problem on it's own, but considering this class has other ways of making people helpless, I'd consider making Coup de Grace a standard action at level 9, and a swift action at level 17. Plus with moving that around, I'd feel more comfortable with the following suggestions to add power elsewhere. The last bit, about helpless opponents provoking, seems rather odd to me. I mean enemies normally provoke on their turn is all, and not many helpless enemies do a whole lot of running. =P

Crippling Terror: Should be Ex or Su, not both. Also unless the Executioner is rolling a d20 and adding stuff to it, he is NOT making a 'check'. If you meant the actual skill...maybe refer to the skill. Though in that case I think the Fighter or Samurai, with existing feats and skill tricks can do this trick much better. On the supernatural side of things I understand the synergy that paralysis brings to the class...but generally scaring people should probably use fear effects, unless you can think of a fluff reason that people go helpless in front of the person with a big axe (not just stuck on the spot in fear, completely helpless) instead of fleeing.

...Lots more to say about the existing abilities, but before I go any further, this really needs more class features, like say one that let them critical hit Undead, Plants, Constructs, etc. (all of which are immune to Coup de Grace because they're immune to critical hits). You could have one that ignored a certain % of fortification. Heck I'm surprised there isn't one to automatically confirm critical hits. Depending on how you want to fluff them, you could give them abilities that aren't directly about critical hits, but more utility things to make sure no one can escape from you. If a bit of magic is okay you could have things like ropes made of shadows to drag people back to you (a noose if you will), or walking through walls. I wouldn't go with invisibility or anything stealthy...just things to let him keep up with anyone that runs in any possible way. If you wanted to stay completely mundane, I'd still give some abilities to track down those they're meant to kill, something that isn't just more critical hit awesome.

Critical Range: I wouldn't give this to the class more than twice...but make it clear that improved critical or anything else that doubles crit range doubles this as well.

...On that, why does this class get Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization multiple times (barely features the first time you get them, and just plain not counting every time beyond the first) but NO critical feats?

[Elysian Blade]

If the whole aim of the class is well, killing people dead, as an executioner, with no other redeeming skills...really I'd probably make this a full BAB class. I like the 'medium' save progression, though I'd probably only use it once and make Fort a full progression. The skills also seem all other the place...why Charisma and Intelligence based skills (well aside from intimidate, that's obvious), before any of the physical skills (aside from balance which still seems, well, odd to pick that other any of the strength based skills). Execution strikes me more as a thing that would be a profession then a performance...if you feel the need to make it a skill at all.

I was looking for skills they normally use and I thought jump/swim wasnt something they use. And will change it to profession.

Requiem: Not a problem on it's own, but considering this class has other ways of making people helpless, I'd consider making Coup de Grace a standard action at level 9, and a swift action at level 17. Plus with moving that around, I'd feel more comfortable with the following suggestions to add power elsewhere. The last bit, about helpless opponents provoking, seems rather odd to me. I mean enemies normally provoke on their turn is all, and not many helpless enemies do a whole lot of running. =P

I meant helpless enemies dont provide attacks of opportunity to you because for some reason they do. And will add your imput.

Crippling Terror: Should be Ex or Su, not both. Also unless the Executioner is rolling a d20 and adding stuff to it, he is NOT making a 'check'. If you meant the actual skill...maybe refer to the skill. Though in that case I think the Fighter or Samurai, with existing feats and skill tricks can do this trick much better. On the supernatural side of things I understand the synergy that paralysis brings to the class...but generally scaring people should probably use fear effects, unless you can think of a fluff reason that people go helpless in front of the person with a big axe (not just stuck on the spot in fear, completely helpless) instead of fleeing.

I think it should be a SU. And I am not good at fear affects so I will need help.
...Lots more to say about the existing abilities, but before I go any further, this really needs more class features, like say one that let them critical hit Undead, Plants, Constructs, etc. (all of which are immune to Coup de Grace because they're immune to critical hits). You could have one that ignored a certain % of fortification. Heck I'm surprised there isn't one to automatically confirm critical hits. Depending on how you want to fluff them, you could give them abilities that aren't directly about critical hits, but more utility things to make sure no one can escape from you. If a bit of magic is okay you could have things like ropes made of shadows to drag people back to you (a noose if you will), or walking through walls. I wouldn't go with invisibility or anything stealthy...just things to let him keep up with anyone that runs in any possible way. If you wanted to stay completely mundane, I'd still give some abilities to track down those they're meant to kill, something that isn't just more critical hit awesome.

You gave me a great Idea for this one how about for everyone the executioner kills he can materialized them and they grab the opponet and hold them making them helpless. (+1 to grapple for each one) it still needs limitations.

Another Idea - A wall of shadow 15ft around executioner nothing can get in nothing can get out and all inside need to roll to resist fear. (Help improve this one.)

And we do your rope idea I like that one a lot.


Critical Range: I wouldn't give this to the class more than twice...but make it clear that improved critical or anything else that doubles crit range doubles this as well.

So just give it twice or say it doesnt stack with anyother effect that increase crit?

...On that, why does this class get Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization multiple times (barely features the first time you get them, and just plain not counting every time beyond the first) but NO critical feats?

I put those in because in my mind a executioner needs to be profiecent with a weapon he kills someone with. As for crit feats a paragraph above might cancel it. So what do you suggest?


Answer are in red thank you for your imput.

[Demidos]

Some sort of "Mark of the guilty" ability he gets to mark targets, treated as "faerie fire"-d and something along the lines of circle dance (http://dndtools.eu/spells/magic-of-faerun--20/circle-dance--1633/) triggered on them.

The ability to heal and gain bonus stats as they kill creatures, up to a scaling limit (Once had a similar character, he gained +2 to strength and cha for every creature he killed (up to +6/+6), healed from death in the nearby area, and had an ability to irrevocably destroy the soul of someone who he killed with a crit. (The class was made by Silva here on the boards, creds to him for an awesssome homebrew).

Hooded Justice --- some sort of ability to prevent 1) divination which might otherwise halt an execution and 2) gives anonymity, due to their massive presence keeping you from really looking at their features. Being an anonymous adventurer always helps. :smallbiggrin:

If you're going with a more magical theme, you can have a power-up form, or something similar for level rounds/day or something that gives bonuses to stats/health/ac/makes you a (wraith/Death)/whatever.

The ambush feats previously mentioned are a good idea, and you could just say that trading a multiplier counts as trading 1d6 sneak attack. Possibly 2d6, because multipliers are gonna be much stronger. Maybe allow bonus feats from the fighter list or from the rogue ambush feats instead of the current, what, 9 weapon focus/specialization feats you have right now?

Some sort of night empowerment doesnt really fit in with an executioner's actions, but it might fit in with their mystique.

Oh, and something to pierce fear immunity at a large penalty (+10 to saves or something) because the executioner is just that scary.

I'd agree with the whole full BAB thing, although i'd understand if you didnt want to use it. The skills at 6+int might be nice, as int will (doubtless) act as a dump stat, so Spot, Listen, Intimidate, and Search pretty much take up all your skills if you dont add more. Some knowledges (e.g. Local) might be nice as well.

The aforementioned class that people suggested you borrow ideas is here. (http://dndtools.eu/classes/bloodhound/)

Perhaps some aura of fear/nauseation/hold person, perhaps scaling and adding more to the above.

Some way to delay failed saves for a round, perhaps, so the executioner can "finish the deed"?

Just tossing out some ideas. Theres some pretty solid ideas in this thread, definitely enough to pull it up to near tier 3, if not the whole way.

[Elysian Blade]

Some sort of "Mark of the guilty" ability he gets to mark targets, treated as "faerie fire"-d and something along the lines of circle dance (http://dndtools.eu/spells/magic-of-faerun--20/circle-dance--1633/) triggered on them.

Hmm...sounds interesting can you explain a little bit more?

The ability to heal and gain bonus stats as they kill creatures, up to a scaling limit (Once had a similar character, he gained +2 to strength and cha for every creature he killed (up to +6/+6), healed from death in the nearby area, and had an ability to irrevocably destroy the soul of someone who he killed with a crit. (The class was made by Silva here on the boards, creds to him for an awesssome homebrew).

I was thinking of doind something like that only with a coup de grace

Hooded Justice --- some sort of ability to prevent 1) divination which might otherwise halt an execution and 2) gives anonymity, due to their massive presence keeping you from really looking at their features. Being an anonymous adventurer always helps. :smallbiggrin:

So something like..."When and executioner is performing a coup de grace he gets invincibility until its over" I like the anonymous part.

If you're going with a more magical theme, you can have a power-up form, or something similar for level rounds/day or something that gives bonuses to stats/health/ac/makes you a (wraith/Death)/whatever.

In my post above I explained some choices but I think changing form might break the class. :smallsigh:

The ambush feats previously mentioned are a good idea, and you could just say that trading a multiplier counts as trading 1d6 sneak attack. Possibly 2d6, because multipliers are gonna be much stronger. Maybe allow bonus feats from the fighter list or from the rogue ambush feats instead of the current, what, 9 weapon focus/specialization feats you have right now?

Maybe in the wall of shadows the executioner gets a +1 to ac attack rolls and dmg and bonus improves with later levels. And I opened to do some fighter feats but rogue not so much.

Some sort of night empowerment doesnt really fit in with an executioner's actions, but it might fit in with their mystique.

Noted

Oh, and something to pierce fear immunity at a large penalty (+10 to saves or something) because the executioner is just that scary.

What do you mean do you mean give the executioner bonuses vs. people in fear? :smallconfused:

I'd agree with the whole full BAB thing, although i'd understand if you didnt want to use it. The skills at 6+int might be nice, as int will (doubtless) act as a dump stat, so Spot, Listen, Intimidate, and Search pretty much take up all your skills if you dont add more. Some knowledges (e.g. Local) might be nice as well.

I thought full bab would be to much but if people want full I can change it. I feel and executioner isnt really a class that needs that many skill points you know? I will add knowledge local though.

The aforementioned class that people suggested you borrow ideas is here. (http://dndtools.eu/classes/bloodhound/)

Thank you

Perhaps some aura of fear/nauseation/hold person, perhaps scaling and adding more to the above.

Will do.

Some way to delay failed saves for a round, perhaps, so the executioner can "finish the deed"?

What exactly do you suggest with this move?

Just tossing out some ideas. Theres some pretty solid ideas in this thread, definitely enough to pull it up to near tier 3, if not the whole way.

Its thanks to everyones help that it came this far.


All answers are in red. Thank you for your imput.

[Elysian Blade]

I will finish updating the class any other suggestions?

[Cloud]

Weapon Focus: Getting this more than once is NOT a feature. (Getting it once arguably isn't either but moving on.) I can see three options here... The first is just, give them weapon focus at first level, and players will choose the weapon they want to use. Second, you gave them this feature multiple times, I would assume that means you imagine them using multiple weapons; you could change the feature to 'Weapon Focus Executioner (Ex):' and then make it 'At first level the Executioner gains Weapon Focus X, Weapon Focus Y, etc. as bonus feats', or in another words, give them multiple weapon focuses as one feature, in every weapon you could see an Executioner using. Third, just change it to like, Executioner Style, and give them a choice of several feats at first level, such as Weapon Focus, Power Attack, and any other feat you think would fit.

Weapon Specialization: This has all the same problems as Weapon Focus... You know you could them say 4 bonus feats spread out over the 20 levels (or more, just that in general feats aren't nearly on par compared to other class features) and have it be a bit like Combat Style from the Ranger. Or at least give them the option of treating their Executioner level as their fighter level for these selections. I'm sure you could find several fitting feats, critical related or otherwise, fighter only or otherwise, to make a decent list to select from.

Critical Multiplier: I probably wouldn't give this out more than once, and as I mentioned last time, add some more interesting and varied class features. I mean as is, even a x20/x4 weapon becomes 15-20 with how critical range works at the moment, which becomes 9-20 with Keen. So ah...9-20/x5 seems...overkill enough. 9-20/x8, or 5-20/x6 say, while not really broken at level 20...is still just...overkill. There is only so much damage you can do. XD If you did want more damage though, I wouldn't increase the multiplier more than once, and instead you could have a feature like, I don't know...
Power Critical: A Xth level an Executioner's critical hits automatically confirm and deals an additional 1d6 damage. Multiple the base number of extra dice granted by your critical hit multiplier minus 1. Increase the base number of extra dice to 2d6 at Yth level, and to 3d6 at Zth level.

[Elysian Blade]

Weapon Focus: Getting this more than once is NOT a feature. (Getting it once arguably isn't either but moving on.) I can see three options here... The first is just, give them weapon focus at first level, and players will choose the weapon they want to use. Second, you gave them this feature multiple times, I would assume that means you imagine them using multiple weapons; you could change the feature to 'Weapon Focus Executioner (Ex):' and then make it 'At first level the Executioner gains Weapon Focus X, Weapon Focus Y, etc. as bonus feats', or in another words, give them multiple weapon focuses as one feature, in every weapon you could see an Executioner using. Third, just change it to like, Executioner Style, and give them a choice of several feats at first level, such as Weapon Focus, Power Attack, and any other feat you think would fit.

Weapon Specialization: This has all the same problems as Weapon Focus... You know you could them say 4 bonus feats spread out over the 20 levels (or more, just that in general feats aren't nearly on par compared to other class features) and have it be a bit like Combat Style from the Ranger. Or at least give them the option of treating their Executioner level as their fighter level for these selections. I'm sure you could find several fitting feats, critical related or otherwise, fighter only or otherwise, to make a decent list to select from.

Critical Multiplier: I probably wouldn't give this out more than once, and as I mentioned last time, add some more interesting and varied class features. I mean as is, even a x20/x4 weapon becomes 15-20 with how critical range works at the moment, which becomes 9-20 with Keen. So ah...9-20/x5 seems...overkill enough. 9-20/x8, or 5-20/x6 say, while not really broken at level 20...is still just...overkill. There is only so much damage you can do. XD If you did want more damage though, I wouldn't increase the multiplier more than once, and instead you could have a feature like, I don't know...
Power Critical: A Xth level an Executioner's critical hits automatically confirm and deals an additional 1d6 damage. Multiple the base number of extra dice granted by your critical hit multiplier minus 1. Increase the base number of extra dice to 2d6 at Yth level, and to 3d6 at Zth level.

I looked this over and want to say I was tuning it down from all the comments so I was thinking about adding a feature on the crit. something like...

Superior Critical (Ex.) : When you roll within your critical range you automatically hit. If you roll a 20 (Normal automatic hit) You perform either a coup de grace or instant kill. up to you but I say the coup de grace it less broken.

[Veklim]

Well, if you take that ability and couple it with all the other non-feat abilities you've got so far, then make weapon focus and spec requirements, along with 8 ranks in intimidate, you could condense the class into the start of a nice 10 level PrC... It's still nowhere near varied enough to be a base class though. Same trouble as before, all executioners will be virtually identical.

[Elysian Blade]

Well, if you take that ability and couple it with all the other non-feat abilities you've got so far, then make weapon focus and spec requirements, along with 8 ranks in intimidate, you could condense the class into the start of a nice 10 level PrC... It's still nowhere near varied enough to be a base class though. Same trouble as before, all executioners will be virtually identical.

I believe theres enough here to make a base class and I am adding more Ideas it might be identical but nobody has to use it if they dont want to if you look back theres a lot of abilities in my mind maybe to much. Because none of the tracking and other things from a class mentioned.

[Elysian Blade]

I updated the class but didnt have the time I thought so I about half-way a little below that mark but I tried to show a little of their future levels.:smallsigh:

[Monk of reason]

Honestly I keep thinking something like this.

Executioner
Prequisites
BA+5
Death Blow
Profession: Executioner 4 ranks
Use Rope: 6 Ranks
Intimidate: 8 ranks
Weapon focus in one of the following
Battleaxe, Greataxe, Executioner's axe, greatsword, spike chain

Special- The character must have publicly executed an individual

{table=head]Level| Base Attack Bonus | Fortitude | Reflex | Will | Special
1st| +1| +2 | +0 | +1 | Executioner's Edge, Sudden Execution
2nd| +2 | +3 | +0 | +1 | Mask of Terror
3rd| +3 | +3 | +1 | +2 | Bloody Execution
4th| +4 | +4 | +1 | +2 | Execution Weapon Mastery
5th| +5 | +4 | +1 | +3 | Critical Execution
[/table]

Executioner's Edge: An Executioner has become proficient in dealing the most damage with their swings. An executioner adds his class level to damage rolls against flat footed or flanked opponents.

Sudden Execution: : If a foe suddenly becomes helpless the instinct of an executioner kicks in and he is able to make a single coup de grace of opportunity.

Mask of Terror- An executioner gets +4 on all intimidate checks.

Bloody Execution: When an executioner of 3rd level or higher completes a coup deg grace all opponents within 30 feet that are able to the execution must pass a will save of 10 + executioner's level + Executioner's Cha modifier. If they fail the save then they are shaken for 1d4 rounds.

Execution weapon mastery: An executioner of 4th level or higher has obtained knowledge of several different means to preform his tasks. He has weapons focus and greater weapon's focus in all executioner weapons and he is granted the ability to tie a noose with his use rope skill.

Critical Execution A fifth level executioner kills as if it was his very nature. Upon critical hits the target must pass a fortitude save of 20 or be instantly killed.

[Elysian Blade]

I see what I can do but I didn't even finish the update theres about 3 more abilities he gets and that's not including the tracking yet.