Shattered Sticks

[roko10]

So, if Teenage Xykon, Redcloak and the MiTD are the heroes and now epic-level OoTS are the villians(as in good and evil alignment), what would be the result, assuming only the alignment and assorted traits are changed?

[AKA_Bait]

Well, for one thing, the comic would be over pretty quickly. The OotS aren't even a challenging encounter for a Team Evil, Linear Guild, and Tarquin team up.

[DaggerPen]

Now I'm picturing Elan as a chaotic evil bard. Unlike Tarquin, who melts down at a suitable challenge to his tight-fisted grip on the narrative, Elan would be fully capable of handling narrative change, and indeed revel in it, using tropes to his own ends and actively seeking to derail the story. Though still not the sharpest knife in the drawer, Elan's narrative mastery would enable him to keep pace with Belkar's and Thog's rampages. Kicking off the Order's plot to unleash the Snarl with the destruction of Dorukan's Gate, Elan's end goal would be to kick down the pillars of reality one at a time, and take the story with it.

I'm too brain fried to do the others right now, though.

[NerdyKris]

So, what would change in the comic if Team Evil, the Linear Guild and Tarquin were the good guys, and the OoTS and allies were bad guys?

EDIT: With the appropiate power levels, of course. The OoTS are probably epic level. Plus, since Xykon would be Good, he couldn't transform into a Lich

Also, swap the time around so that SoD is this universe's OtOoPC, and SoD is this universe's OtOoPC.

If you're going to propose such an idea, maybe you should be the one figuring out some details, because otherwise it makes no sense. Do you mean if the villains were a team of level 15ish characters with the Order's classes? And the heroes were all epic or near epic characters with Redcloak, Xykon, and Team Tarquin's levels? Like a lich is trying to stop them? Are they doing the same thing with the gates? Does Xykon control the gate or do the Order? Why are the Order unleashing the Snarl? Why does Redcloak want to stop it?

Your scenario makes absolutely zero sense. You can't just rotate characters in a story like a game of musical chairs.

[Mike Havran]

It could work but would need some serious (and some less serious) character reversals.

The Hero, would be, of course, Redcloak, fighting for the better living conditions of goblinkind. They are oppressed by PC races, which are preferred by the eldritch Old Gods and slaughter goblinoids in bloody XP gaining assaults. Accompanied by snarky, free-spirited and black comedy loving lich Xykon (who owns Redcloak for creating him in elven dungeon), Redcloak tries to establish a gate connection to the Land of the Free, where goblinoids could live in harmony. Their main antagonists are the Order of the Stick.

Roy is a mikoesque zealot who would like to see goblinkind utterly exterminated and has a personal feud with Xykon, Durkon carries out the will of the Old Gods who say goblins are and should remain a cannon fodder. Haley is a greedy marauder and Elan a dafter version of Joker. Belkar and Vaarsuvius are ...um... Belkar and Vaarsuvius. They don't need to change much.

As a B plot, we have Nale, an idealistic young man who tries to track down and redeem his brother. Nale has much on his plate - not only his boyfriend, Sabino, has a very conflicted nature which stems from the fact his race is Always Chaotic Evil succubus, but Nale has also to deal with wishes of Tarquin - his slightly senile, but ultimately benevolent father who constantly tries to turn the story into a good prince vs. bad prince fairytale and doesn't have much of a clue of what's really going on.

[veti]

Why switch alignments? I prefer to switch the levels and the perspective, but leave the alignments unchanged. The plucky Team Evil are on a desperate mission to liberate Goblinkind, a mission that may well cost them their very existence, along with everyone else's. The tyrannical forces of the Status Quo are trying to stop them.

How can our plucky, 11th-level sorceror-lich outmatch an epic-level Roy optimised to disrupt casting? How can Redcloak keep out of V's oppressive cages long enough to stay in the fight? How far can we trust the MitD?

[Rakoa]

I really like Mike's suggestions for how it would go down. The characters are similar to their usual incarnations, but yes, their alignments and roles are reversed. It's good!

To add my two copper, I think Evil Roy would be similar to that Team Elf Leader Guy Whose Name I Can't Remember that just loved to kill goblins. Elan would be the ultimate loose cannon (possibly trying to unleash the Snarl) and Durkon would probably be pretty similar to Malack in a lot of ways. As Mike said, Vaarsuvius and Belkar are pretty much good as they are. Just remove that little bit of remorse in V and it's all set.

[Ellye]

I really like Mike's suggestions for how it would go down. The characters are similar to their usual incarnations, but yes, their alignments and roles are reversed. It's good!

To add my two copper, I think Evil Roy would be similar to that Team Elf Leader Guy Whose Name I Can't Remember that just loved to kill goblins. Elan would be the ultimate loose cannon (possibly trying to unleash the Snarl) and Durkon would probably be pretty similar to Malack in a lot of ways. As Mike said, Vaarsuvius and Belkar are pretty much good as they are. Just remove that little bit of remorse in V and it's all set.

Belkar would be a reluctant villain. He's a Good free-spirited halfling who has always been friends with Roy Bloodhilt and his team, and they have been adventuring together for a long time. Belkar never appreciated the more lax morals of his teammates, but it wasn't bad enough to end his friendship. However, as the Order evil deeds increase in proportion, they start to affect Belkar more deeply (there's also the influence of Overlord Scruffles, his new Hell Cat animal companion that used to be the pet of Shojo, the evil ruler of Azure City who faked lunacy as an excuse for his crimes against the world) - will he break away from them (he considered it once, when offered a proposal by Damsel Tuskiko), or will he succumb and be corrupted by their Evil ways?

[esotErik]

For anyone who didn't get the reference, "Shattered Glass" is a Transformers comic story taking place in an alternate dimension where the Autobots are evil and the Decepticons are good.

OT, the concept that's building up so far sounds amazing. Belkar (and maybe V as well) could change sides near the end, the plucky heroes could take down the Sapphire Guard and Roy to make some progress in bettering the Goblins' place in the world, and then they'd have to deal with crazy Chaotic Evil Elan as the final boss who wants to destroy the Universe using the Snarl.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

So, how does Miko figure into this AU?

[roko10]

So, how does Miko figure into this AU?

She will be a juuuuust Lawful Evil Blackguard that falls after killing the evil Lord Shojo(thereby completing a good deed), and dies savingTeam Evil(Team Good?) from death by malevolent spirts.

I also thought that MiTD would be the corruptible one.

And how would the book titles figure out?

(Keep the fact that Xykon constantly forgets Roy's name.)

[Gift Jeraff]

I see Roy being similar to Tarquin minus the narrative quirks. He's also still the straight man of the group. He's an ex-adventurer whose primary goal is to conquer. He tells himself and others it's to bring Law to the world, but really it's just for his ego. Greenhilt already conquered Azure City and commands the Azurite army by the beginning of the story.

Durkon is a wacky version of Malack, always by Greenhilt's side. Being a vampire is optional. The other 4 are the opponents most frequently faced by the heroes while Greenhilt sits on his throne scheming.

Haley is a mercenary hired by Greenhilt and is sent on important missions like capturing the Gates (or whatever the McGuffin is in this universe) or assassinating important enemies. Elan is her dumb lover always by her side.

V works for Greenhilt because s/he believes capturing and studying/utilizing the McGuffin will unlock the secret to complete and total ultimate arcane power. Eventually, s/he does something incredibly horrible and starts to question what s/he's doing. Blackwing is basically Iago.

Belkar is Belkar. Mr. Scruffy is a stereotypical "villain's pet cat." Bloodfeast is kept in Greenhilt's dungeon for most of the story, but later on Belkar starts using her/him as a mount.

The heroes are what Mike said.

[roko10]

Also, contrasting the Order's ineffective builds in the Real Stickverse, the Order here are killer munchkins.

[Loreweaver15]

You'd have to make Redcloak & company munchkins as well; nobody in OOTS is optimized, except our late friend the half-ogre.

Also, a lot of people like to refer to an idea such as this as a Mirror Universe, for simplicity.

[hagnat]

Belkar would be a reluctant villain. He's a Good free-spirited halfling who has always been friends with Roy Bloodhilt and his team, and they have been adventuring together for a long time. Belkar never appreciated the more lax morals of his teammates, but it wasn't bad enough to end his friendship. However, as the Order evil deeds increase in proportion, they start to affect Belkar more deeply (there's also the influence of Overlord Scruffles, his new Hell Cat animal companion that used to be the pet of Shojo, the evil ruler of Azure City who faked lunacy as an excuse for his crimes against the world) - will he break away from them (he considered it once, when offered a proposal by Damsel Tuskiko), or will he succumb and be corrupted by their Evil ways?

as i read the OP, the first thing that came to my mind was 'how would belkar handle the order if he was good and they were the bad' -- and Thog would be the ugly, of course

[Trillium]

Redcloak will be constatly taunted by Righteye's spirit.
"It's stupid you decided to be a cleric instead of fighter. Remember, Roy is a fighter. What are you gonna do to him? Harm? He can make any fortitude save he wants! Oh, maybe you'll just get lucky and poison him? Oh right, fortitude save. Disintegrate? Oh, right. Maybe you'll level up a bit and then cast Implosion on him? Oh right..."

[roko10]

Trigak would be an discount Cohort which ironically keeps living till the end of the strip.


But now for the weirdest thing in the mirrorverse:

The Polearm Emporium actually sells polearms.

Lemme repeat this: the Polearm Emporium. Actually. Sells. Polearms.

(And in an particulary terse manner, too.)

[mikeejimbo]

It could work but would need some serious (and some less serious) character reversals.

The Hero, would be, of course, Redcloak, fighting for the better living conditions of goblinkind. They are oppressed by PC races, which are preferred by the eldritch Old Gods and slaughter goblinoids in bloody XP gaining assaults. Accompanied by snarky, free-spirited and black comedy loving lich Xykon (who owns Redcloak for creating him in elven dungeon), Redcloak tries to establish a gate connection to the Land of the Free, where goblinoids could live in harmony. Their main antagonists are the Order of the Stick.

Wait. This isn't how we should have been reading it the whole time?

[ORione]

Redcloak will be constatly taunted by Righteye's spirit.
"It's stupid you decided to be a cleric instead of fighter. Remember, Roy is a fighter. What are you gonna do to him? Harm? He can make any fortitude save he wants! Oh, maybe you'll just get lucky and poison him? Oh right, fortitude save. Disintegrate? Oh, right. Maybe you'll level up a bit and then cast Implosion on him? Oh right..."

*applause* Clever.

[Benthesquid]

So, to distill each character's role, shear it of its alignment implications, invert said values, and then reapply them?

Hmm. Roy Greenhilt is the leader with father issues. He's often frustrated by the antics of his party, but ultimately he drives them forward towards their goals. In our inverted universe, this all holds true.

Roy Bloodhilt resents his father, Eugene, a wizard who constantly belittled his son for choosing to be a fighter. Eugene bound his soul to Xykon's to avoid being condemned to hell, and Roy seeks to destroy Xykon in order to damn his father. He gathered the Order of the Stick and bound them to serve his cause through bribery, intimidation, trickery, and vaguely worded contracts.

Gradually, as he becomes aware of Xykon and Redcloak's plans to use the power of the MacGuffin to create a paradise on Earth, his goals change from merely killing Xykon to seizing control of the gates for himself.

Haley is the Rogue with a heart of gold and father issues. Although initially more concerned with increasing her wealth rather than helping the party do good, she was both revealed to have a good reason for her apparent greed, and became more dedicated to the party and willing to trust them.

Haley Bloodshine is the Rogue with a heart of iron. Although initially more concerned with increasing her wealth rather than helping the party do evil, she was eventually revealed to have an evil reason for her evident greed- she wanted the resources to spring her father from jail on the Western Continent, and install him as head of the Rogue's Guild in Bluesky City, replacing the Robin Hoodesque Bozzok, so she can rule by manipulating him. ("My father always says family are the only people you can trust... the sucker.")

She's oddly charmed by Elan's Cloudcuckoolander antics, as well as his amazing... rapier. This, combined with her friendship with Roy, gradually brings her more into line with the party's goals, and after the the Orange City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RBG_color_wheel.svg) arc, she agrees to continue following him in his quest.

Her major story arcs are leading the party who attempts to resurrect Roy after Xykon heroically slays him in single combat outside the walls of Orange City, and dealing with the ironic curse placed on her by her Celestial nemesis, Sabine, which allows her to speak only in cryptic riddles as punishment for her obsession with secrets.

Durkon Thundershield is a dwarven cleric who eventually becomes a vampire. He likes beer, Thor, and duty. He talks in amusing Dwarvish accent.

Durkon Bloodshield the vampire cleric, is Roy's oldest and most trusted companion. He likes blood, Jörmungandr, and duty. He is eventually defeated and forcibly resurrected by the lizardfolk cleric Malack. He talks in amusing Transylvanian accent.

Vaarsuvius is the Neutral wizard, who prides themself on their great intellect, is dedicated to the pursuit of arcane power, and has it all blow up in their face.

Varsanguinis is the Neutral wizard, who prides themself on their great intellect. After killing a Young Gold Dragon in a sidequest, they find themself confronted by the Ancient Gold Dragon, who explains her elaborate plot to permanently remove V's ability to cast spells. In desperation, V accepts an offer from a convenient servant of the Elven God of Knowledge, having the spirits of three Elvish sages soul spliced to their own. The resulting power and knowledge allows them to defeat the Gold Dragon without any casualties, as well as resurrect not only the Young Gold Dragon, but all of the Gold Dragon's family who had been killed by evil adventurers, but V is horrified by the sudden knowledge of all the pain and suffering in the world, and soon after starts shading into Omnicidal Maniac. The fans are divided on whether V's actions during and after the soul splice tend to point towards V's ultimate redemption or corruption.

Belkar Bitterleaf is the token evil teammate, who serves as comedic relief, commits murder and mayhem whenever he thinks he can get away with it, and

Belkar Bloodleaf is the token good teammate. He was more or less abducted by the Order of the Stick becauses they needed a tracker. It turns out that not only is he horrible at tracking, but he's constantly sneaking off to do good deeds. However, the Order keeps him around both because he is an extremely competent fighter, and because they feel that he would otherwise be a danger to their plots. He very nearly manages to redeem Antipaladin Miko during the Orange City arc by taunting her into killing him, reasoning that her lawful nature will make her repent of killing an unarmed prisoner without a trial, but is foiled by V. After the Orange City Arc, he begins to feel that playing along with the Stick is ultimately the best way to serve the greater good. There is some further implication that he is being corrupted by his association with Lord Shojo's Hellcat, Mr. Scruffy.

He is predicted by the Oracle to lead a long and fulfilling life as a gourmet chef. The fandom is split between those who believe in this prophecy, and those who are convinced that this is somehow misleading, and that he will die horribly.

Elan is the cheerful, happy-go-lucky bard amusingly obsessed with genre conventions, who eventually develops father issues.

Elan the Bloody Awful Poet is the cheerful, happy-go-lucky bard murderously obsessed with genre conventions. When he meets Roy, he's on the run for murdering a city guardsman who had remarked that he was just one day away from retirement. Roy keeps him around, although he's never quite sure why. Elan, meanwhile, thinks of Roy as a super-cool big brother and awesome villain. Elan is quite aware that he's not the main antagonist, and does his best to make the other characters look cool. He rarely seems to mean anyone any real harm, but is honestly a bit baffled when people protest that genre conventions aren't a good reason to murder them.

He frequently clashes with his good-aligned long lost twin brother, Nale, who at one point has him imprisoned and goes undercover to destroy the Order from within. During this time, Elan is mentored by Julian Scoundrél and takes levels in the Magnificent Bastard prestige class. His eventual clashes with his father Tarquin the Just center around Tarquin demanding that he take responsibility for his actions, and stop pretending to be 'just a minor character in someone else's story.'

Villains later, perhaps.

[DaggerPen]

So, to distill each character's role, shear it of its alignment implications, invert said values, and then reapply them?

Hmm. Roy Greenhilt is the leader with father issues. He's often frustrated by the antics of his party, but ultimately he drives them forward towards their goals. In our inverted universe, this all holds true.

Roy Bloodhilt resents his father, Eugene, a wizard who constantly belittled his son for choosing to be a fighter. Eugene bound his soul to Xykon's to avoid being condemned to hell, and Roy seeks to destroy Xykon in order to damn his father. He gathered the Order of the Stick and bound them to serve his cause through bribery, intimidation, trickery, and vaguely worded contracts.

Gradually, as he becomes aware of Xykon and Redcloak's plans to use the power of the MacGuffin to create a paradise on Earth, his goals change from merely killing Xykon to seizing control of the gates for himself.

Haley is the Rogue with a heart of gold and father issues. Although initially more concerned with increasing her wealth rather than helping the party do good, she was both revealed to have a good reason for her apparent greed, and became more dedicated to the party and willing to trust them.

Haley Bloodshine is the Rogue with a heart of iron. Although initially more concerned with increasing her wealth rather than helping the party do evil, she was eventually revealed to have an evil reason for her evident greed- she wanted the resources to spring her father from jail on the Western Continent, and install him as head of the Rogue's Guild in Bluesky City, replacing the Robin Hoodesque Bozzok, so she can rule by manipulating him. ("My father always says family are the only people you can trust... the sucker.")

She's oddly charmed by Elan's Cloudcuckoolander antics, as well as his amazing... rapier. This, combined with her friendship with Roy, gradually brings her more into line with the party's goals, and after the the Orange City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RBG_color_wheel.svg) arc, she agrees to continue following him in his quest.

Her major story arcs are leading the party who attempts to resurrect Roy after Xykon heroically slays him in single combat outside the walls of Orange City, and dealing with the ironic curse placed on her by her Celestial nemesis, Sabine, which allows her to speak only in cryptic riddles as punishment for her obsession with secrets.

Durkon Thundershield is a dwarven cleric who eventually becomes a vampire. He likes beer, Thor, and duty. He talks in amusing Dwarvish accent.

Durkon Bloodshield the vampire cleric, is Roy's oldest and most trusted companion. He likes blood, Jörmungandr, and duty. He is eventually defeated and forcibly resurrected by the lizardfolk cleric Nergal. He talks in amusing Transylvanian accent.

Vaarsuvius is the Neutral wizard, who prides themself on their great intellect, is dedicated to the pursuit of arcane power, and has it all blow up in their face.

Varsanguinis is the Neutral wizard, who prides themself on their great intellect. After killing a Young Gold Dragon in a sidequest, they find themself confronted by the Ancient Gold Dragon, who explains her elaborate plot to permanently remove V's ability to cast spells. In desperation, V accepts an offer from a convenient servant of the Elven God of Knowledge, having the spirits of three Elvish sages soul spliced to their own. The resulting power and knowledge allows them to defeat the Gold Dragon without any casualties, as well as resurrect not only the Young Gold Dragon, but all of the Gold Dragon's family who had been killed by evil adventurers, but V is horrified by the sudden knowledge of all the pain and suffering in the world, and soon after starts shading into Omnicidal Maniac. The fans are divided on whether V's actions during and after the soul splice tend to point towards V's ultimate redemption or corruption.

Belkar Bitterleaf is the token evil teammate, who serves as comedic relief, commits murder and mayhem whenever he thinks he can get away with it, and

Belkar Bloodleaf is the token good teammate. He was more or less abducted by the Order of the Stick becauses they needed a tracker. It turns out that not only is he horrible at tracking, but he's constantly sneaking off to do good deeds. However, the Order keeps him around both because he is an extremely competent fighter, and because they feel that he would otherwise be a danger to their plots. He very nearly manages to redeem Antipaladin Miko during the Orange City arc by taunting her into killing him, reasoning that her lawful nature will make her repent of killing an unarmed prisoner without a trial, but is foiled by V. After the Orange City Arc, he begins to feel that playing along with the Stick is ultimately the best way to serve the greater good. There is some further implication that he is being corrupted by his association with Lord Shojo's Hellcat, Mr. Scruffy.

He is predicted by the Oracle to lead a long and fulfilling life as a gourmet chef. The fandom is split between those who believe in this prophecy, and those who are convinced that this is somehow misleading, and that he will die horribly.

Elan is the cheerful, happy-go-lucky bard amusingly obsessed with genre conventions, who eventually develops father issues.

Elan the Bloody Awful Poet is the cheerful, happy-go-lucky bard murderously obsessed with genre conventions. When he meets Roy, he's on the run for murdering a city guardsman who had remarked that he was just one day away from retirement. Roy keeps him around, although he's never quite sure why. Elan, meanwhile, thinks of Roy as a super-cool big brother and awesome villain. Elan is quite aware that he's not the main antagonist, and does his best to make the other characters look cool. He rarely seems to mean anyone any real harm, but is honestly a bit baffled when people protest that genre conventions aren't a good reason to murder them.

He frequently clashes with his good-aligned long lost twin brother, Nale, who at one point has him imprisoned and goes undercover to destroy the Order from within. During this time, Elan is mentored by Julian Scoundrél and takes levels in the Magnificent Bastard prestige class. His eventual clashes with his father Tarquin the Just center around Tarquin demanding that he take responsibility for his actions, and stop pretending to be 'just a minor character in someone else's story.'

Villains later, perhaps.

These are fantastic. I especially love Elan's entry and Haley's "My father always says family are the only people you can trust... the sucker." Though, really, all those bloody names, and not a single play on the Empire of Blood counterpart? For shame. :P

[Gift Jeraff]

Evil!OOTS should be called the Order of the Sticks and Stones.

[Hogwarts9876]

Elan the Bloody Awful Poet

Was this a Buffy reference? (Also the rest of your post was awesome)

[roko10]

So, to distill each character's role, shear it of its alignment implications, invert said values, and then reapply them?

SNIP

[

Minor nitmick here: Malack will be the one who ressuredts Durkula, not Nergal.

[Benthesquid]

Was this a Buffy reference? (Also the rest of your post was awesome)

It was indeed a Buffy reference, as well as the only way I could come up with to work Blood into Elan's name given that he lacks a surname.

(Okay, full disclosure, I did consider naming him Elan BLOODBLOODBLOOD, but the Buffy reference was the only halfway decent way I could come up with).


Minor nitmick here: Malack will be the one who ressuredts Durkula, not Nergal.

Good call. Fixed.

[Karsoff]

This is amazing :smallbiggrin: Can we get synopses of the comic strips (the Mirror World versions)?!

[That's such a tall order that maybe I'll contribute something later when I have time but I had to say I really like this idea]

[roko10]

This is amazing :smallbiggrin: Can we get synopses of the comic strips (the Mirror World versions)?!

[That's such a tall order that maybe I'll contribute something later when I have time but I had to say I really like this idea]

Eh, maybe later.