"and as for the elf" I think I figured it

[King of Nowhere]

Remember when the oracle was trying to persuade belkar that his prophephy about "causing the death" of several people had already come to pass (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)?
He started to rant out theories on how belkar was linked to the death of roy, miko, and her horse. and then he added an ominous-sounding "and as for the elf-"; that have given rise to many speculations on how belkar would cause the death of V, but to the best of my knowledge no one could find a good conclusion or has ever proposed what I'm proposing now.

If by "death" we define our spirit being trapped in the afterlife, then V "died" when the fiends took hold of his soul (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0897.html) (also other definitions of death like your spirit leaving your body or somesuch would work equally well). And V was led to the soul splice by all the events coming after he got separated by the party in azure city. but the party would have never split in azure city if belkar hadn't gotten himself hit with a mark of justice: haley wanted to get roy's body in a bag of holding, but could not because it may have triggered the curse on belkar (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0468.html). Haley then had to carry roy, which was slower and caused her to miss the boat. Either that, or belkar caused miko to snap and that caused her to destroy the gate, leading to the party being split.

And that's what the oracle was going to say before belkar interrupted him with his daggers. (belkar getting his mark) or (belkar causing miko to snap) lead to the party being split, which lead to V's nervous breakdown, which lead to him taking the soul splice, which lead to his "death".

[DeliaP]

Remember when the oracle was trying to persuade belkar that his prophephy about "causing the death" of several people had already come to pass (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)?
He started to rant out theories on how belkar was linked to the death of roy, miko, and her horse. and then he added an ominous-sounding "and as for the elf-"; that have given rise to many speculations on how belkar would cause the death of V, but to the best of my knowledge no one could find a good conclusion or has ever proposed what I'm proposing now.

If by "death" we define our spirit being trapped in the afterlife, then V "died" when the fiends took hold of his soul (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0897.html) (also other definitions of death like your spirit leaving your body or somesuch would work equally well). And V was led to the soul splice by all the events coming after he got separated by the party in azure city. but the party would have never split in azure city if belkar hadn't gotten himself hit with a mark of justice: haley wanted to get roy's body in a bag of holding, but could not because it may have triggered the curse on belkar (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0468.html). Haley then had to carry roy, which was slower and caused her to miss the boat. Either that, or belkar caused miko to snap and that caused her to destroy the gate, leading to the party being split.

And that's what the oracle was going to say before belkar interrupted him with his daggers. (belkar getting his mark) or (belkar causing miko to snap) lead to the party being split, which lead to V's nervous breakdown, which lead to him taking the soul splice, which lead to his "death".

Ummm.... except the soul splice and all that followed hadn't happened at that point? So the oracle would be saying "and as for the elf, well, that hasn't happened yet." Cue stabbing anyway.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Ummm.... except the soul splice and all that followed hadn't happened at that point? So the oracle would be saying "and as for the elf, well, that hasn't happened yet." Cue stabbing anyway.

Perhaps that's exactly what the Oracle was going to say before Belkar interrupted him.

[Marsala]

Maybe it was going to be an Obi Wan-style, "and the Neutral man or woman that Vaarsuvius was has already ceased to be, replaced by the trance-deprived and increasingly amoral Darth Vaarsuvius."

[Gift Jeraff]

"As for the elf, well, there's no way to directly attribute the wizard's death--literal or otherwise--to you. Too bad."

[DeliaP]

"As for the elf, I know there's no need for me to think of a way to complete this sentence because I knew you were going to stab me to death before I had a chance, because I'm a freakin Oracle!" :smallbiggrin:

[137beth]

"As for the elf, I know there's no need for me to think of a way to complete this sentence because I knew you were going to stab me to death before I had a chance, because I'm a freakin Oracle!" :smallbiggrin:


"and as for the elf, well, that hasn't happened yet."

One of these two.

[Peelee]

"And as for the elf, you won't. "

Seriously, Belkar asked if he would cause the death of ANY of them. Not ALL of them. One death is enough to fulfill the prophecy. Why does V have to have an explanation at all?

[Nilehus]

"And as for the elf, you've caused the death of more brain cells than every other circumstance and person that they'll ever know, combined."

[Copperdragon]

Note the Oracle was telling lies in a (as he already knew fruitless) attempt to stop Belkar from stabbing him.

So "As for the elf" would have been another crackpot theory like the others. As it was the last one I think it is safe to estimate it would also have been the most far fetched. OR it is the true one and the oracle saved the "best" one for the end, as he was seriously concerned to spoil something he was not supposed to.

So either Belkar has no connection at all with Vaarsuvius' Death (or the Wizard simply does not die within the story) or it will be so clear cut that we will not have to ask anymore when we see it.

Between those two, I go for the first.

[Sir_Leorik]

Note the Oracle was telling lies in a (as he already knew fruitless) attempt to stop Belkar from stabbing him.

The Oracle wasn't lying, he was stalling for time. He knew that nothing he did could change the fact that Belkar would stab him. But that doesn't change the fact that everything he said was 100% true.

As for the "And as for the Elf" part, my current threory is that it refers to an event that hasn't happened yet. Perhaps Belkar will sacrifice his life in order to allow Vaarsuvius to take an important action... only for Nero or Cedrik to cash in their banked up time and prevent V from capitalizing on Belkar's sacrifice. Thus Belkar's final act, an act of great valor quite against his character, will be undone by V's pact with the IFCC Directors, who will choose that moment to "cause the death" of V by removing her soul (and Blackwing's too).

[Peelee]

As for the "And as for the Elf" part, my current threory is that it refers to an event that hasn't happened yet.

I'll take that bet. The Oracle said his Prophecy was already fulfilled, meaning that if he continued talking, he would take about how Belkar had already caused V's death.

Or, ya know, that V had nothing to do with it because his question wasn't all inclusive.

[Kornaki]

The idea that Belkar has in some way caused V's death and we just haven't seen how yet is a pretty attractive one. The oracle saved it for last because he knew Belkar was going to kill him anyway (he's an oracle, he knows these things) and figured he shouldn't spoil it for the rest of us. If so it will take some storytelling finesse to show us how the most arbitrary action of Belkar caused V's death in a meaningful way but it would be a great strip if it's what the Giant has been planning.

I find it unlikely of course, it's just fun speculating.

[Sir_Leorik]

I'll take that bet. The Oracle said his Prophecy was already fulfilled, meaning that if he continued talking, he would take about how Belkar had already caused V's death.

Okay, fine. Here's my original hypothesis about Belkar causing V's death:

Belkar talked Haley into shooting down three tropical birds, which he roasted for himself, Mr. Scruffy and Haley. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html)

These tropical birds were in fact the very ones Vaarsuvius had used in Vaarsuvius' Greater Animal Messenger. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html)

By cooking the birds before they could relay Vaarsuvius' message, Belkar prevented V from learning Haley's whereabouts.

This ultimately resulted in V leaving the fleet, and making a deal with the IFCC Directors, who have elected to remove V and Blackwing's souls at least once and have the ability to do so twice more. So by cooking three birds, Belkar managed to cause the death of V at least three times.

How about that


Or, ya know, that V had nothing to do with it because his question wasn't all inclusive.

Now where's the fun it that? :smalltongue:

[martianmister]

Belkar caused the event (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0316.html), beginning of V's fall into darkness.

[Ramien]

"And as for the elf, you've caused the death of more brain cells than every other circumstance and person that they'll ever know, combined."

:elan: Nuh-uh! Belkar was behind me even before we got split up after Azure City!

[King of Nowhere]

Note the Oracle was telling lies in a (as he already knew fruitless) attempt to stop Belkar from stabbing him.

So "As for the elf" would have been another crackpot theory like the others. As it was the last one I think it is safe to estimate it would also have been the most far fetched.

But that's EXACTLY my point! I'm making a crackpot theory about what crackpot theory a minor character could have invented. It's a (crackpot theory)^2!


Okay, fine. Here's my original hypothesis about Belkar causing V's death:

Belkar talked Haley into shooting down three tropical birds, which he roasted for himself, Mr. Scruffy and Haley. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html)

These tropical birds were in fact the very ones Vaarsuvius had used in Vaarsuvius' Greater Animal Messenger. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html)

By cooking the birds before they could relay Vaarsuvius' message, Belkar prevented V from learning Haley's whereabouts.

This ultimately resulted in V leaving the fleet, and making a deal with the IFCC Directors, who have elected to remove V and Blackwing's souls at least once and have the ability to do so twice more. So by cooking three birds, Belkar managed to cause the death of V at least three times.

How about that



Now where's the fun it that? :smalltongue:

Right, that's an even better connection than mine

[Peelee]

Okay, fine. Here's my original hypothesis about Belkar causing V's death:

Belkar talked Haley into shooting down three tropical birds, which he roasted for himself, Mr. Scruffy and Haley. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html)

These tropical birds were in fact the very ones Vaarsuvius had used in Vaarsuvius' Greater Animal Messenger. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html)

By cooking the birds before they could relay Vaarsuvius' message, Belkar prevented V from learning Haley's whereabouts.

This ultimately resulted in V leaving the fleet, and making a deal with the IFCC Directors, who have elected to remove V and Blackwing's souls at least once and have the ability to do so twice more. So by cooking three birds, Belkar managed to cause the death of V at least three times.

How about that

Now that I'll accept. Bravo!