Dumb Dragons

[kirerellim]

Ok, I give up! I've been looking through books and the web trying to find dumb dragons. The reason is the Dragon Trainer feat. Allows you to train dragon type monsters with less than 6 int. Problem is... I can't find any! Well. Not entirely true. So far I've found....

Wyvern
Felldrake(Horned and Crested)
Earth Drake
Abyssal Drake(Not sure about these because they couldn't be tamed by lords of hell... seems presumptuous of me to try)

I love the flavor of dragon tamer, but those options arnt exactly numerous. Any one else got any?

[Rebel7284]

Is there a way to cause permanent intelligence drain?

[kirerellim]

O.o I like the way you think.

[Erik Vale]

You could just build a dragon on a different point buy [taking note of it's int mod]. Say it dumped int. Which was rather stupid of it to do, not that it knows, because it's stupid.

[sideswipe]

in the same way as not all humanoids have all abilities at 10/11, you would naturally find dragons that have varying ability scores. if you are the DM. hey one person found the rare dumb wyrmling dragon (or young/junior as when you get to adult it will be very very rare to get a dumb one).

if you are the player, talk to your DM and put this point across, see if there is a way he suggests, within his setting, to research and find said dragon.

the other thing is a youngish dragon probably wont have a horde yet. you are an adventurer. well known for gaining a lot of gold in a small period of time. so since dragons are intelligent. talk to it and ask for it to join your party as your personal cohort and business partner and go adventuring and gain a bunch of gold, then when it has a substantial horde it can go.

whilst adventuring, you point out how much you have earned in a short time and keep convincing it to stay.

therefore you have a trained ish dragon.

[Rubik]

Wyrmling, Very Young, and Young white dragons all have 6 Int. Dragonwrought kobolds with fewer points added to Int would work as well.

[kirerellim]

I forget that the stats are just average and not necessarily the rule so to speak. Thank you for the reminder, I'll have to talk to my DM about that. He's pretty easy going so that should do the trick! Thanks guys!

[Chronos]

Dragons show the same range of ability score variation as humans do-- The number listed in their statblock is just an average. But you can still find particularly dumb specimens, some of which would be dumb enough.

For instance, even as high as Old age, white dragons only have a 12 Int. That means that their Int modifier is +2, so the dumbest Old white dragons could be as low as 5. With younger ones, it's even easier: Young and younger whites have an average of 6, so even a slightly below-average one will be a 5.

EDIT: Wow, seriously dragonfire inspiration-affected ninjas, there.

[Zaydos]

Young or younger White Dragons have 6 Int (and the feat is 6 or lower so they count).

Apply the half-dragon template to anything with Int 4 or less (half-dragon hydra anyone?). Add in the half-troll template first and you can get the starting Int to 6 in a lot of cases.

Draconomicon: Dragonnel, Earth Drake, Young or Younger Rust Dragons.

Rage Drake (MMIII)

Just a quick run-through.

[Uncle Pine]

The feral template (Advanced Bestiary) can be used to create dragons more similar to the European tradition (in other words, big scaly fire-breathing carnivorous with animal intelligence). Feral dragons have the following abilities' adjustments: Str +4, Dex -4 (minimum 1), Con +4, Int -15 (minimum 1), Wis -4 (minimum 1). A feral dragon's CR is equal to RHD/2 or the base dragon's CR-4, whichever is greater. They also lose a bunch of things (spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities (but they don't lose they breath weapons) and other things I don't really remember at the moment). It's a cool way to create the "Monster Hunter" feel at low levels.

[Telonius]

Wardrake, from Dragon 309 p33, has exactly 6 Int.

EDIT: The feat also allows you to train animals with the Draconic template, so your options aren't as limited as you think.

[Ravens_cry]

I think the Int thing is meant as a balance thing. It's a pretty evil thing to do, but repeated ability damage to a creature to keep it enslaved to you sounds like it would fit certain characters. It could even be used by a boss badie with a dragon, who the characters can potentially preform an Androcles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androcles) for at some point, and make the fight easier in the process.