So, I need to destroy a plane.

[Orick]

It is a sentient plane and I need to destroy it without being able to get to it.

Finding its "location" won't be a problem I just need a way to destroy it preferably without it being able to tell I am trying to off it and without having to go to the plane.

I'm assuming it would have made itself infinite.

We are level 18 right now but the GM has planned this campaign through 50 so epic spell casting is an option.

Any thoughts?

[Flickerdart]

There's an interesting twist on the psionic version of genesis. It's possible to cast it on the Material plane to create a small dead spot, turning everything to inert dust. A sufficiently epic character could develop a more powerful version of this effect that works on other planes and has a larger radius of effect.

[Slipperychicken]

I don't believe this is even possible by RAW. You're best off going to the library in search of plot-rails, buy a first-class railroading ticket, then enjoy the ride and watch the fireworks when the plane is pacified. It helps to have some fitting music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnrwM7vFn_U), too.

[roguemetal]

You could potentially do this with enough bag of holding and portable holes. Assuming the plane is not infinite in size.

Depending on the plane, you may be able to restrict planar travel to the plane instead of destroying it, which may prove easier. This is particularly useful for demiplanes, which often have only one method of access.

Maybe become Demigods and use your area of control to have the plane make war with itself? Though you would need to get to the plane then.

It is possible that, as a 'sentient' plane, it has an intelligence score. Meaning regardless of size, you could control it, or treat it as a creature.

EDIT: Infinite planes are pretty much impossible to destroy in a physical manner.

[Anthrowhale]

Diplomacy the plane to be fanatic and then ask the plane to destroy itself?

[Slipperychicken]

Diplomacy the plane to be fanatic and then ask the plane to destroy itself?

Or performomancy. That way your sick riffs can tear the very planes asunder. If you can pull it off, you're basically guaranteed a place in the cosmology (particularly as a god/demigod of music and destruction).

[Orick]

Care to explain preformomancy?

[Slipperychicken]

Care to explain preformomancy?

You can use a Perform check like a Diplomacy check to influence attitudes. The "epic skills" rules even gives Perform the same DCs as Diplomacy.

[Quiddle]

You might be able to use teleport through time to unmake the plane but that seems quiffy. Alternately idk play with a sphere of annihilation.

[Zaq]

Have you tried putting snakes on it?

[Forrestfire]

Have you tried putting snakes on it?

Presumably, the plane's had it with them, and opened some windows :smallwink:

[Another_Poet]

If your GM follows Planescape logic, where existence is shaped by belief, you could change or destroy the plane indirectly by working on those who dwell there.

This could be achieved through propaganda, migration, or mind control.

Propaganda: an "easy" way without visiting the plane would be to position yourself as a deity among the plane's residents. With Epic magic, this is not too hard to do - choose influential residents (kings, etc) and use scrying to discover crucial information that will help advance their plans. Then appear in their dreams to give them the information they need. Make sure you look super cool and godlike in their vision. Keep giving free help to the most important people with no catch except they must worship you.

Your cult will spread in no time, and you can reveal holy laws through prophets (choose less important but highly charismatic residents to be your prophets, and appear in their dreams as well) or angels (send your minions into the plane to assist your followers). These holy laws are aimed to changing people's beliefs in a way that will alter the plane itself, eventually solving your problem.

Migration: Make golems or other beings who have strongly held beliefs of the kind you need. Send them into the plane. Alternately, find denizens of other planes who have the right beliefs, and incentivize them to move to your target plane.

This will work much faster if you can also get the plane's current residents to migrate out (spread them to multiple planes so they don't end up reproducing the original plane) or just kill them.

Actually, if you kill them all and then send two or three minions there.... problem solved I guess right?

Mind Control: Just add water.

Actually the only snag with mind control is volume. How do you control so many minds? It would probably be best to create a custom monster to send in. This monster can Enslave x intelligent creatures, but its desire is to then teach them to mind control (sorcerer levels) others. Also of course it wants them to have certain beliefs about reality which alter the plane. Otherwise it's a friendly old fellow and actually helps its "slaves" improve their lives (hey everything is easier with sorcerer levels right?).

This effectively creates a spreading contagion of new beliefs and a growing army of mid-level sorcerers who think you are peachy. Killing the sentient plane is more or less just sprinkles on your sundae at that point.

Also: all of this - and almost any plan you might use - depends on the sentient plane's personality having certain limits on its powers over what's in the plane. I mean, the local laws of physics and magic are essentially its body, right? And presumably it likes its body?

So even if you went there in person, or even if your minions went there, it probably can't just say "this person no longer exists" or "a mountain falls on this person." If there aren't already internal causal reasons for mountains falling from the sky, then that kind of action is an aberration of its own internal chemistry, and is either impossible (like you saying "heart, stop beating!") or highly undesirable (like you saying, "I really like my pinky finger, but now I have to cut it off.")

I would really play up this point in discussing your research and plans with the GM. A sentient plane does not get an auto-win button for the goings on of everything inside the plane; that's not how its body works.

At worst, entering the plane is likely to be more like Neo entering the Matrix (certain powerful forces are out to get you, but they don't just immediately find and kill you, and if the world is going to be edited to change things against you it takes time and effort) OR it's going to be like going into dreams in Inception (the residents and even natural forces feel uncomfortable with your for reasons they don't understand, and may become aggressive).

Good luck. Cool hook.

[Urpriest]

Just hope the NSA isn't paying attention to your thread titles...

[Haldir]

Use Genesis and Wish to create a predatory plane that can only sustain itself by consuming sentient planes, make sure you have a quick way to defeat your plane-eating plane in case it goes HAL on you.

Conjure black holes inside of the plane and compress it back to a singularity.

[Fax Celestis]

Make a permanent gate to Dal Quor.

Or, if you're feeling especially evil, consult your local Elder Evils book and find one that you feel like using as your instrument of justice. Bring to a boil, summon, season, and serve.

[Lightlawbliss]

might I recommend some ground to air missiles and/or flak cannons.

[Jeff the Green]

Make a permanent gate to Dal Quor.

Or, if you're feeling especially evil, consult your local Elder Evils book and find one that you feel like using as your instrument of justice. Bring to a boil, summon, season, and serve.

Implore (super-gate from a Dragon issue) can call Father Llymic, I believe.

[BornValyrian]

In light of the above: This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258840)

[AuraTwilight]

Make a bigger and smarter plane to devour it. This can't possibly backfire.

[Quiddle]

Can you ice assassin living planes?

[Blackhawk748]

Can you ice assassin living planes?

Sweet mother of god you could........

Also i recommend Polymorph Any Oject and turn a rock into a black hole, i seem to recall a thread that proved this as RAW legal.

[Quiddle]

Sweet mother of god you could........

Also i recommend Polymorph Any Oject and turn a rock into a black hole, i seem to recall a thread that proved this as RAW legal.

I remember posting that! It works better if you turn yourself into the black hole because then you don't get messed up by it and you turn back in an hour. EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE

[ZamielVanWeber]

Sphere of Annihilation into Well of Many Worlds would slowly kill the plane...

[Zweisteine]

One of the Elder Evils lives in an obelisk that, when the summoning ritual is performed (which involves a sphere of annihilation), effectively destroys all of reality (the entire plane, not all the planes).

Either move the obelisk sealing it, or take the dangerous path.

Free Kyuss from his obelisk prison (Carefully, so as not to destroy the Material Plane), forcibly move him to the plane you want to destroy, re-imprison him, and then do the sealing less carefully, destroying the plane. You can do this without visiting the plane by summoning something powerful to do it for you (or by duplicating yourself with Ice Assassin or something).

Custom Epic Spells are always nice.


But if you wish to know of the planes, let us summon the mighty one who knows All About the Planes!
Afro, Afro, Afro!

Or you could just go to to his Planar Questions Thread. It's on page two.

[Captnq]

Step 1: Fins out what it eats.
Step 2: Find a way to link an object to the plane itself. I'm talking hard anchor here.
Step 3: Put the object inside what the plane eats.
Step 4: Like the snake ouroboros that devours itself, the plane eats the bait, swallows it's own tail, then devours itself.

I made an entire campaign setting based on this concept.

Where did I put those notes...

Cosmology

The Plane of existence, known as Absu, is considered a demi-plane, in the way that the dimension is boundless, yet finite. While it's origin is hazy, the dimension is believed to have originated in The Abyss, but it is also postulated that it might have originated in the space between the outer planes. Regardless, Absu is alive.
Absu feasted upon the life force of anything that might have had the misfortune of stumbling into it. As it grew in power, some how, it managed to make the jump to a whole new level of predatory consumption, and proceeded to devourer entire planes of existence. It's uncertain exactly what its history is, because so few survived to alert anyone of the danger. It's time spent devouring among the planes of the Abyss was unsatisfying, apparently, because it launched itself towards the prime material planes.
It made short work of some of the older, burned out prime material planes on the fringes of existence. It set its sights on a youthful plane that had just coalesced out of the ether. The main world was called Ki. It was a young world that was just beginning to show signs of life. The 'soul' of the world had just formed. It was not quite self aware, but did possess a great deal of power, as any God would, and a certain amount of animal-like cunning. Absu thought he had easy prey.
Absu devoured the entire dimension, but Ki tricked Absu, getting him to fall into his own trap and devourer himself. Ki was eaten in the process, but Absu had effectively cut himself off from the rest of the multiverse.
Absu now resides in the center of himself, devouring himself, yet also containing himself. His massive 'stomach' contains Ki, and an assortment of other planetary leftovers from his previous victims. Connections to the other dimensions are limited to his ‘mouth’, which continues to randomly drift throughout the astral plane, manifesting as a force that is called 'The Dark Bay of Absu'.
Furthermore, time itself is twisted into loops, knots, and the occasional dead end. The entire dimension is slowly imploding in a process that will take eons, but the end is inevitable. Absu is not completely cut off from the rest of the universe, the Dark Bay is proof of that. If there is a way in, then there must be a way out. Perhaps there may be a way to even free the planet Ki and give it a chance to achieve its true destiny.


Celestial Bodies
The entire dimension rests within a gigantic, black, hollow sphere. The sphere is the outer skin of Absu, while the Sun that is in the center of that sphere is Absu as well. Orbiting around Absu are the various planets and objects that make up the system.

Absu
The fiery body in the center of the demi-plane of Absu is Absu. When it was tricked into devouring itself, it started a process of self-immolation that will continue until Absu completely consumes itself. For all intensive purposes, it behaves in the same fashion as our sun, with a few exceptions.
Occasionally the fire burns through and when it does, if one uses the proper equipment, one can see black 'sunspots'. These sunspots are wounds in the skin of Absu and in theory, if one had a strong enough telescope, you could see inside the hole and see what dwells inside, as if you were looking at it from the edge of the hollow sphere that makes up this demi-plane.
The Sunspots manifest for a few days, during which time, a corresponding point of light appears in the night sky, which if one could somehow pierce through the glare, you'd see the hollow sphere as if looking up from the sun. As such, the night sky has no stars, in a typical sense. It has the occasional point of light as sun spots appear and disappear and the other celestial bodies.
Infrequently, there is something far larger then a sunspot. Maybe once a century, a long black rift will appear on the sun. At the same time a long line of light will stretch across the sky. They appear suddenly, then last for about a month before they slowly close and fade. This is Absu healing itself. In the process, Absu shrinks a few hundred miles. As the self-consumption of Absu continues, the tears will appear with greater and greater frequency. When the end finally comes, it will appear as if the entire sky is unraveling and the sun will turn black as sackcloth.
It's important to note that Absu is still alive and still a being of godlike power. However, the self-immolation is causing Absu such pain and agony as to render it mentally isolated. As a living universe, Absu was unaware of pain, save the pangs of hunger. His current situation is simply too much for him to withstand. Mentally, he's completely shut down.
The irony is, should by some miracle Absu be freed from its situation, it would have an insight into the pain and suffering it has caused in devouring so many life forms and may very well have a change of 'heart'. As it stands, no attempt to contact Absu or awaken him has worked, and if he should be stirred while still burning alive, it is likely that it would unleash a hellish barrage of solar flares before sinking back into a catatonic state.

Mummu
The closest world orbiting Absu is Mummu, or The Herald of Absu. Known as the Counselor, it is the second oldest surviving celestial body inside Absu. The entire planet has been baked by its proximity to Absu and is nothing more then an ever-shifting orb of white and yellow sand.
The History of Mummu is that it used to be the home world of an old race that was ancient even before the arrival of Absu. The Kipdith, a race of man-sized cockroaches with three fingered arms and heads of moss, had established a highly lawful and organized society on it's home world, which, at the time, was criss-crossed with a network of canals, hives, and tunnels. They had no enemies because they had succeeded in destroying all 'chaotic' life on Mummu. Nothing lived or grew that was not carefully created to serve a specific purpose, as well as to be aesthetically pleasing in it's symmetry.
The Kipdith were systematically imposing their order on other near-by planes of existence when Absu struck. Uncertain of what to do, as they were facing a problem they could not solve, they might have managed to evacuate, had they not all returned back to their home planet and gotten caught up in a pointless debate over the proper procedure on how exactly they should evacuate.
Mummu was devoured, and in the cold emptiness of Absu, the Kipdith tried to survive. By carefully husbanding their remaining resources, and systematically slaughtering the majority of their population, they managed to survive longer then any other race that went before them.
Their planet was changed from a frozen rock to a lifeless desert when Absu devoured himself and brought a firestorm of heat and light back to Mummu. The Kipdith slowly began to rebuild, and now look about their prison for resources they can exploit.

Ki
Ki is the world that the campaign is based on. In most respects, it is like our world and the cradle of life in the otherwise harsh environment that is Absu. More details are available in following chapters.

Kingu
The oldest world in Absu, Kingu was once a vibrant, blue-green world full of life. Now the surface is bone dry and airless. The surface is grey dust pot-marked with small ridges and craters. In most respects, this dead and lifeless world resembles our world's moon. It's smaller then our moon, but significantly closer, orbiting Ki every two weeks. Kingu is tidally locked with Ki and one side always faces Ki. In the center of the side that faces Ki is a massive crater. The center of the impact filled in with black lava. Combined with the crater's secondary rim, Kingu resembles a giant eye.
Kingu is sometimes referred to as The Eye of Absu, but usually it is simply referred to as The Eye. It has an effect of the culture of the whole world. Where as our moon has been enshrined in art, Kingu is seen as a somewhat malevolent force, inspiring thoughts of paranoia. It is hard to not look up in the sky and not feel like one is always being watched. The passage of time is also influenced by its rhythms.
For example, Two weeks on our world are called a fortnight, but on Ki it is called a wink. Four weeks are called a blink, since it takes two eyes to blink. Twelve blinks make up a nap, or one year. The actions of the Kipdith have altered the time it takes for Kingu to circle Ki and the time it takes Ki to circle Absu so that they have fallen into perfect lockstep with one another.

The Hammered Belt
The hammered belt is a faint line of orbiting asteroids that are made up of void stones, a rock that destroys what it touches and in the process releases energy that feeds Absu. This was part of his digestive process. Worlds would pass through the hammered belt and be pounded by void stones. Over time this would wear down the matter that Absu ate.
Now that Absu has devoured himself, the celestial bodies within Absu are in mostly stable orbits. However, from time to time, void stones get knocked out of orbit and will crash into the other worlds, usually leading to catastrophe.
Normally they remain in their orbits, but they react to the barrage of light from Absu giving off sparkling rainbow flashes from time to time. It's this faint rainbow sparkling that gives it the name.

Lahamu
A place of brackish stagnation, dead plant matter, and mummified corpses both animal and humanoid. Absu absorbed its dimension and all life on the world was killed save those that dwelled deep in the waters of the oceans. Not even bacteria to make the dead matter decay survived. There is no energy. No sound. It has deep oceans and shallow swamps, but there is no dry land anywhere. Not even the air moves. The oceans are as still as glass.
It is the homeland of a race that is called The Elders. Their actual name is unpronounceable without the use of tremorsense. They resemble giant starfish and were used to dwelling on the dark sea floor. In their old dimension, Lahamu was a bright and vibrant world like your typical campaign setting. Its consumption by Absu was the death of all life on the planet, but not for The Elders. In some respects, this was a blessing for their race.
Being plunged into a lightless void was a great boon for the Elders. They flourished by collecting void stones and harnessing the energy to power their civilization. Stone was their primary fuel. Over time, almost all dry land was lowered to below sea level. Massive energy collectors were established so that any tidal force, the energy of any movement by water or air, is absorbed and stored.
While The Elders have survived and even thrived, after a fashion, the arrival of Ki was seen as a most fortunate event. A world of almost limitless potential and resources to slake their endless hunger. Alas, it coincided with the arrival of Absu as a source of light, which caused havoc with this light sensitive race. Of all the races, they have the strongest desire to extinguish Absu and invert his current dimensional condition. They have dreams of first becoming like bacteria that live in your digestive tract, then eventually gaining control over and commanding Absu itself. If this should ever happen, the multiverse shall truly know the meaning of pain.

Anshar
Anshar is massive world of swirling gasses that is surrounded by a ring of rock. Anshar retains some of the peculiar properties that it's original plane of existence enjoyed. The massive world has a consistent air pressure of one atmosphere, regardless of how deep one goes into it. Things do not fall in Anshar, but merely float and drift around with no real sense of up or down. The ring of rock has a separate envelope of air. Each rock has normal gravity and pulls things to its center, but the rocks do not attract each other, in fact, they seem to exert a gently repellant force to one another. Two small moons orbit on either side of the ring acting as shepherds, keeping the ring from spreading apart.
Referred to as The Crowned One, Anshar is considered one of the most beautiful of the objects in the night sky. It's oddly angled orbit has it coming close enough for the rings to be visible to the naked eye at least once every eighty years or so. A swirl of blues, browns, and white, the world can be quite a sight.
The two shepherd moons are called Gaga and Magaga

The Space Between
The Space between worlds is considered Astral Space for purposes of traveling between worlds. Since each world was from a separate plane before it was consumed, each world operates under similar, but still different, laws of physics and magic. In the space between drift evil souls, remains of destroyed worlds, rogue void stones, horrific monstrosities and nameless horrors.

Ethereal Plane
The Ethereal plane is just like the ethereal plane in normal D&D cosmology. However, only Ki has an ethereal plane. No other planet inside Absu has retained an ethereal plane, although it is possible that some of them never had one. The Ethereal plane extends to several hundred miles beyond the surface, but stops far short of Kingu.

The Shadow Plane
The Shadow plane exists throughout Absu, but tends to be fractured and incoherent. The shadow planes of Absu have little correlation to the physical existence of the various objects inside Absu. Entire shadow worlds and blasted fragments of things that once were drift about in orbits that hold no relation to anything. Occasionally these orbits intersect with Ki, and can be entered, but one must be careful to not remain too long, lest they be swept up in the passing of the shadow fragment. Those who taken away from Ki must find a way to exit the shadow realm and transverse the Space Between, or wait the days, weeks, or years until Ki and that particular shadow realm intersects once more.


Steal it if you go with the "eating itself" trick as an example of what might happen afterwords.

[Phelix-Mu]

It's usually much easier to render a plane unusable/worthless. I suggest using ambulatory green slime to infiltrate and devour everything organic (stone is the only thing they don't consume and turn into green slime).

Then use celestial brilliance on an animated object to kill all of the slime.

Using up all the air may be problematic, but in theory, the slime breathes (it's generally treated as a plant), so the slime may have used it up already.

A DM may rule that fire uses up air (not sure if RAW supports this). If this is true, then all you need is a perpetual source of fire.

Alternatively, poison the air.

Alternatively, uncap a some of those endless sand container things from Sandstorm and fill up the plane. Could be prohibitively expensive and/or slow.

[Lightlawbliss]

It's usually much easier to render a plane unusable/worthless. I suggest using ambulatory green slime to infiltrate and devour everything organic (stone is the only thing they don't consume and turn into green slime).

Then use celestial brilliance on an animated object to kill all of the slime.

Using up all the air may be problematic, but in theory, the slime breathes (it's generally treated as a plant), so the slime may have used it up already.

A DM may rule that fire uses up air (not sure if RAW supports this). If this is true, then all you need is a perpetual source of fire.

Alternatively, poison the air.

Alternatively, uncap a some of those endless sand container things from Sandstorm and fill up the plane. Could be prohibitively expensive and/or slow.

or call in a favor with some outsiders who want the owner of this plane dead.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Do you need to annihilate the plane itself, kill the sentience, or just render it uninhabitable? And how much cheese are we accepting here? Epic Spellcasting is almost certainly the answer here, but then, it always is.

Relevant handbook link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227513).


Make a bigger and smarter plane to devour it. This can't possibly backfire.
Heh heh heh.

[Phelix-Mu]

or call in a favor with some outsiders who want the owner of this plane dead.

I like the personal touch.:smallwink:

If epic spellcasting is on the table, I'd just brew up a mythal, tie it to some construct, and march the thing in there with enough at-will magic to level anything. I think you could even give it sphere of ultimate destruction at will, or w/e the 9th level spell that creates a temporary sphere of annihilation.

Really, there is just about nothing that at will, standard action magic can't fix.

[Mithril Leaf]

Do you have any method of turning a spell into a supernatural ability currently? If so, my recommendation is to DCFS a feat into Mother Cyst, then use Supernatural Necrotic Tumor to bypass the standard SR or whatever it likely has, followed by having it as a slave. I'm sure if you have it as a totally loyal slave you can figure out some way to kill it.

[BornValyrian]

Do you need to annihilate the plane itself, kill the sentience, or just render it uninhabitable? And how much cheese are we accepting here? Epic Spellcasting is almost certainly the answer here, but then, it always is.

Relevant handbook link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227513).


Heh heh heh.

Holy Cr*p this site literally has a handbook for everything d&d.

[Phelix-Mu]

I should make a handbook for cyber-dinos with eye-lasers. Only half-joking, actually. They're cool enough to at least merit some exploration.

[Slipperychicken]

Holy Cr*p this site literally has a handbook for everything d&d.

There are even a few handbook handbooks. They're basically sorted compilations of other handbooks, but it's still impressive how much people write about 3.5.