[PF] Multiclassing Gunslinger

[Calinero]

So, after a TPK I have made a new character for my friend's campaign--a level 8 human Gunslinger of the Musket Master archetype. Right now I'm going all Gunslinger, but I was wondering--are there any classes or prestige classes that complement the Gunslinger well? No 3rd party, please.

[watchwood]

If you were a Mysterious Stranger, then a couple levels of Paladin would get you some nice bonuses.

You could also dip a couple fighter levels for the extra feats. I think there's a dipping guide floating around this forum somewhere that you could look at.

[Calinero]

I considered Fighter for the feats and Armor Training. I've also looked briefly at Inquisitor, since I have good Wisdom but bad Charisma (no Cleric levels for me), but I'm not sure it would be worth it.

[Hruken]

You have most of the good parts of gunslinger, and with guns, it is hard to really go wrong with what you multiclass into.

There is a PrC that you may want to look into: Shield Marshal/Grand Marshal (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/shieldmarshal). Gives some inquisitor like judgements that are more focused for gunslinging, and some other thematic abilities that may be useless for you, depending on your campaign.

Inquisitor is a good choice, lots of synergy there. Fighter is another good option, weapon training with your gun for more damage. Urban Barbarian is another option, dex based rage is amazing on a gunslinger.

A level of monk can be good, wis to AC can be good, and unarmed strike gives you a melee option.

It really depends on your stats and build though.

[Psyren]

Mysterious Stranger Ninja works well - being stealthy helps you get close enough for those touch attacks safely.

[Thrair]

Depends on what you're going for.

1) If you want a Gish, you can go Eldritch Knight.
Generally you'll either use a Spellslinger entry, or combine a Sorcerer with Mysterious Stranger for Charisma synergy.

Sorcerer route gives more flexibility, Spellslinger route has impressive blasting potential and a Magus-like ability to enhance your gun.

One nice thing about Eldritch Knight it's levels stack with fighter and spellcasting class for feat qualification. So at level 10, you'll qualify for Arcane Discoveries and will be able to recover an Opposed School, assuming you go the spellslinger route.

If you're looking more for Divine additions:
Inquisitor adds some nifty abilities, and has some good synergy with Wisdom.

Meanwhile Holy Gun Paladins sport some fairly impressive combat potential with the right build, and could be dipped into for some nice perks (saves, Charisma to attack roll one smite, etc). Especially if you go the Mysterious Stranger route.

If you're going mundane dips, there's not all that much, really.

I've found Fighter dips don't provide much, as you get a number of bonus feats from Gunslinger, and you already have full BAB.

Monk also just doesn't seem to cut it, for me. It does little for you except Wisdom to AC. And only if you don't wear armor. Celestial Armor beats it out, imo.

However, as Hruken said, Shield Marshal really kicks a lot of ass, and is probably one of the better prestige classes out there. Combines some nice features from Inquisitors and Rangers.





Finally, one thing you can consider instead of multiclassing for flavour is the Eldritch Heritage feat line. Especially if you go Mysterious Stranger. You can get some really cool flavour and power from some of the bloodlines.

Since a Human can swap out their free feat for Focused Study, you can essentially get you get free Skill Focus feats as you level, which lessens the feat tax on the chain. I'd put the first into the skill you need for your bloodline, and the level 8 one into Perception.

This (https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=14idaW3mxJ7YL0yVCcBEsKd6H_5KbL8SteXTk0PUk4E 0) guide has some good information.

A couple of the more notable bloodlines that would kick ass on a Gunslinger:
1) Shadow Bloodline.
You get Hide in Plain Sight at level 11, which can be really nice. And as you level, you can use it to Dimension Door your self or allies around. Which is just sick and can set your melees up for some surprise full-round attacks, in addition to pulling your more vulnerable PC's asses out of the fire.
The Final power creates a spot of Deeper Darkness you can see through that entangles everything in it. It can be a win button, at times.

2) Fey Bloodline.
At level 11 you get Greater Invisibility as a spell-like, which can really add to the mystique of a Stranger. The Sylvan version of the Bloodline is even better, as you swap out the relatively useless touch attack first power for a frickin' Animal Companion. Which is huge. And the final power changes to the ability to Shrink yourself and grow wings. You get Dex to damage, so this is all kinds of sexy.

[Karoht]

Mysterious Stranger Ninja works well - being stealthy helps you get close enough for those touch attacks safely.
Seconded. Playtested. Completely awesome if a little feat starved. Poison use + bullets, just those two together are awesome. Never mind Sneak Attack Damage and STR or DEX damage with every hit.

IF starting as level 1:
2-3 Levels Ninja to get your (Charisma Based) Ki Pool. Take Pressure Points Ninja Trick to inflict STR or DEX damage every time you hit a target with Sneak Attack.
5 Levels of Gunslinger
IF Mysterious Stranger, take Signature Deed (Grit Feat) to make Focused Aim require no Grit to use.
3 Levels of Paladin for Charisma to Saves and Smite (and Lay on Hands but you will almost never use it). Take Holy Tactician, because Weal's Champion is awesome for you and your team, and you get a free teamwork feat that you can grant to everyone within 30ft of you.
Remaining Levels
Take Gunslinger to 9 ASAP for Gun Training 2 (Dex to Damage in addition to Charisma to Damage in addition to Weal's Champion/Smite Evil). Once there, consider either some more Ninja or Paladin at your leisure. Increasing Ninja Levels gives more Sneak Attack, increasing Paladin should give you better BAB, a possible mount or Divine Bond weapon, and more Weal's Champion/Smites per day.

Once you hit Gunslinger 9, you should be doing damage as follows:
Weapon Damage + Dex + Charisma (Focused Aim) + Charisma (Smite/Weal's Champion) + Sneak Attack Damage + 1 STR/DEX Damage. Plus Poison if you can afford it.
Per hit.
Against Flat Footed Touch AC's.
Happy hunting.

Dealing with the broken condition? Buy a wand of Mending (it's cheap) or take a level or Oracle in there somewhere. Oracle can give you Charisma to AC, or it can give you Snowsight (one of the only ways to get it in Pathfinder) which allows you to see through Sleetstorm for example. It would also give you cantrips (Mending is a cantrip) and a small pool of spells per day to use, including some excellent first level buffs.

Buy a Wand of Obscuring Mist and a Goz Mask (which lets you see through the Obscuring Mist). 8750g total. If they can't see through fog (very few things can), they will be Flat Footed VS your attacks, triggering Sneak Attack.

A wand of Silence is an excellent way to move around quietly and keep that noisy gun from giving away your position. Cast it on a rock and keep the rock on your person, if you need to get out to communicate with someone you can, or even throw the rock near a caster to annoy them. Cast it on a bullet, shoot the bullet at a caster (target the ground they are standing on), to mess them up.

It's a bit of a clunky build, but it works. If you don't like the idea of the Paladin levels in there, feel free to ditch them. In my opinion it works better as Gunslinger 9/Ninja 2+/Oracle 1, with the remaining levels spread between whatever you want.

[FabulousFizban]

If you go ninja/gunslinger, I recommend picking up mist mail. It grants concealment, so all your attacks will be sneak attacks.

It is a cheap item, 2500gp i think, and can carry you until you get a ring of blur.

[Karoht]

If you go ninja/gunslinger, I recommend picking up mist mail. It grants concealment, so all your attacks will be sneak attacks.

It is a cheap item, 2500gp i think, and can carry you until you get a ring of blur.I always forget this. Does one need partial concealment (20%) or total concealment (50%) in order to pull off a Sneak Attack?

If the former, Mistmail will work, 2250gp, very worth having.

[Thrair]

Not certain, but I think you need total concealment.

[Psyren]

I always forget this. Does one need partial concealment (20%) or total concealment (50%) in order to pull off a Sneak Attack?

If the former, Mistmail will work, 2250gp, very worth having.

Your target needs to be denied its dex bonus to AC, which typically means they need to be unaware of you. Concealment will not do this on its own - you must use the concealment to try and hide (Stealth check beating their Perception, -20 penalty if you attempt it immediately after attacking.) In addition, some forms of concealment (e.g. Blur) will not work at all; however, Mistmail surrounds you with fog, which will allow you to hide.

The downside is that the fog will also grant your target(s) concealment relative to you and prevent you from landing a sneak attack. You will therefore need a Goz Mask, Fogcutting Lenses, Shadow Strike or some other countermeasure in order for the Mistmail to work. Mistmail is also 1/day.

[Thrair]

The downside is that the fog will also grant your target(s) concealment relative to you and prevent you from landing a sneak attack. You will therefore need a Goz Mask, Fogcutting Lenses, Shadow Strike or some other countermeasure in order for the Mistmail to work. Mistmail is also 1/day.

I wholly advise you to go for a Goz Mask over Fogcutting Lenses. Same price on both, Lenses slap you with a perception penalty, while the Goz mask also lets you see through smoke.

Just flat out better. Unless you REALLY need that head slot for something.

[Phyxion]

Also, if you're doing pistols, the Goz Mask will let you wear Sniper Goggles as well. Not only will that let you get SA past the normal 30' limit, if you're still within the 30' limit you get an extra +2 damage per die of SA. The greater version lets you get the extra damage at any range (at least, any range you can make attacks at - but the Distance enchant is good for that).

[Karoht]

To be completely clear, Goz Mask and Sniper Goggles do not take up the same slot at all. They are separate slots. One is Eyes (Goggles) and the other Head (Mask), yes you can wear both at the same time. Which greatly extends the range at which you can be making Sneak Attacks, using your concealment with some kind of fog effect or (if you take the level of Oracle (winter mystery) and get Snowsight) Sleetstorm.
You can be as far away as the full range of your gun and still make the Sneak Attacks, so long as you can see the target, no concealment (stuff you can see through doesn't count), etc.

Even with just 2D6 of Sneak Attack, by the time you hit 4 attacks (BAB 6+, Rapid Shot, Haste), you'll probably be out damaging the entire party consistantly. Which is fine because you can be moving around, setting up your concealment shenanigans, taking shots here and there, and then you line it up and full attack something and drop it or cripple it.

Plus, you get to walk around as a Gunslinger Ninja. If you are a Gnome, you are a Gnome Gninja. Once you got the goggles and mask, start quoting the Starcraft Ghost regularly.
"Call the shot"
"I'm gone"
"Never know what hit 'em"
"You call down the thunder..."
"...I'll reap the whirlwind."

[Psyren]

I wholly advise you to go for a Goz Mask over Fogcutting Lenses. Same price on both, Lenses slap you with a perception penalty, while the Goz mask also lets you see through smoke.

Just flat out better. Unless you REALLY need that head slot for something.

I agree; I just tend to prefer generic items when I can as they are more likely to be approved at the tables I play at. GM is tied to a specific deity's cult in Golarion whereas the lenses are just a pair of goggles with no history in the setting.

Also, the disadvantage to something meaningful for rogues can make it more appealing to DMs as well.


To be completely clear, Goz Mask and Sniper Goggles do not take up the same slot at all. They are separate slots. One is Eyes (Goggles) and the other Head (Mask), yes you can wear both at the same time.

Note that you can also add the powers of Sniper Goggles your FL or vice-versa.

[grarrrg]

So, after a TPK I have made a new character for my friend's campaign--a level 8 human Gunslinger of the Musket Master archetype. Right now I'm going all Gunslinger, but I was wondering--are there any classes or prestige classes that complement the Gunslinger well? No 3rd party, please.

Since you're already at level 8, I'd advise you to stick around until level 11 at least.
Then you can grab Signature Deed (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/signature-deed-grit) and go to town.
Bleeding Wound is a good one, making any/all of your attacks Bleed attacks for free can be fun, or bleeding STR, DEX, or CON for only 1 Grit per use is pretty nice as well.

[Karoht]

Since you're already at level 8, I'd advise you to stick around until level 11 at least.
Then you can grab Signature Deed (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/signature-deed-grit) and go to town.
Bleeding Wound is a good one, making any/all of your attacks Bleed attacks for free can be fun, or bleeding STR, DEX, or CON for only 1 Grit per use is pretty nice as well.
Bleeding Wound and Dex to Damage earlier are the 2 big reasons NOT to go with Mysterious Stranger (and you're already Musket Master, it's cool). Bleeding Wound + Pressure Points (Ninja Trick) is pretty deadly.

[NightbringerGGZ]

Bleeding Wound and Dex to Damage earlier are the 2 big reasons NOT to go with Mysterious Stranger (and you're already Musket Master, it's cool). Bleeding Wound + Pressure Points (Ninja Trick) is pretty deadly.

With a Musket Master I generally plan on taking either 5 levels or 11 levels. At level 5 you gain Dex to Damage and depending on your attributes you can multiclass into just about anything and be effective. Personally I prefer either Ranger or Inquisitor.

If you go for 11 levels, pick up Signature Deed to ensure that a powerful deed costs 0 Grit to use. Either Targeting or Bleeding Wound are my favorite options. For my remaining levels I tend to go for Fighter levels and pick up feats and class features that boost my damage. The Trench Fighter archetype is particularly nice, as 3 levels will add your Dex to damage a second time.

[Slipperychicken]

The Trench Fighter archetype is particularly nice, as 3 levels will add your Dex to damage a second time.

I recommend Gunslinger1/Trench Fighter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/trench-fighter)X. After 1st level, you aren't getting much from Gunslinger anyway. This build gets you dex to damage at 4th level, along with a boatload of feats, damage bonuses (from Weapon Training, and the weapon focus/specialization line), and your essential Gunslinger goodies like the free gun, gunsmithing, firearm proficiency, and quick clear. If you're in Guns Everywhere, that first gunslinger level also scores you more Dex to damage.

If at all possible, start off with a +1 Rifle, maybe Pepperbox Rifle if you feel like it (although I don't see the benefit over vanilla rifle if your reload is a free action anyhow). It'll make your life so much easier, with 1d10 base damage, 80ft range increment, no chance to explode, and move action reload time which goes down to free with Rapid Reload. Other firearms are acceptable, but not nearly as good. Also, try to ride a mount, as this lets you move while making ranged full attacks without penalty (even without feats, you won't take penalties while your mount takes a normal move). Since the following build has a free feat or two, feel free to go for a Small race (like Halfling) for the +1 tohit, +dex, and ability to ride a medium mount and take it indoors.

By 8th level, it would look something like

Human Gunslinger 1/ Trench Fighter 7
Feats (bracketed feats are fighter bonuses)
Dex>>Con>Wis

Gunslinger 1: Rapid Reload, Point Blank Shot
Fighter 2: [Precise Shot]
3: Rapid Shot, [Deadly Aim*]
4: (+Dex to damage from Trench Fighter)
5 Weapon Focus (firearm of choice) +1 atk [Weapon spec (firearm) +2 dmg] (also weapon training class feature +1 atk/dmg)
6:
7: Clustered Shots (lets you laugh at DR) [unassigned feat]
8: -unassigned feat- (maybe throw on something like Snap Shot or mounted combat)

Assuming starting Dex 18 (boosted to Dex 20 via levelup) and a +1 rifle, your attack routine should look something like:

Ordinary single shot: +11 (1d10+8)
Single shot (deady aim): +8 (1d10+14)
Full Attack (rapid shot): +9/+9/+4 (1d10+8)
Full Attack (rapid shot + deadly aim): +6/+6/+1 (1d10 + 14)




*Contrary to popular belief what I've been told, Deadly Aim does work with firearms.

Early Firearms: When firing an early firearm, the attack resolves against the target’s touch AC when the target is within the first range increment of the weapon, but this type of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats and abilities such as Deadly Aim. At higher range increments, the attack resolves normally, including taking the normal cumulative –2 penalty for each full range increment. Unlike other projectile weapons, early firearms have a maximum range of five range increments.

Advanced Firearms: Advanced firearms resolve their attacks against touch AC when the target is within the first five range increments, but this type of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats such as Deadly Aim. At higher range increments, the attack resolves normally, including taking the normal cumulative –2 penalty for each full-range increment. Advanced firearms have a maximum range of 10 range increments.