Ivanhoe
2014-01-30, 01:49 PM
Inspired by some current threads here (in particular the opposite theme (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327963) ), I have developed a character idea. I do not know whether it is really new, but here I go…:smallsmile:
The basic concept is: What if a very, very skilled mundane magician / con artist of our world would be hurled (planeshifted whatever) into a typical 3.5 D&D scenario?
There are two great recent movies surrounding this theme: “Now You See Me” and “Oz the Great and Powerful” that will provide me with inspiration.
Any comments and ideas from your side would be really welcome! I hope I’ll get to play this character in a future game.
Obviously this character would have no real magic, just basically mundane abilities (mostly skills and very good strategies and tactics) to appear as if he would do magic, with maybe even similar effects (in particular in the eyes of non-casters).
Could this be done? And could such a character survive in a D&D world and for how long? (or even contribute and – possibly – fill the wizard’s role in the group)?
I’d impose the following conditions on the character build:
Human (obviously);
The languages, including bonus languages, should be adjusted to be part of the D&D world (say, his French language skill becomes elven language:smallwink:, English is the Common language etc … );
elite array, no magic item (at the beginning, and no magic item in adventuring that he has to activate, since he can work no real magic);
never gain any spells, sp or su abilities;
no wild cohort (“2 rules: never work with children or animals”:smallbiggrin:) – although leadership from level 6 onward may be an idea to get a “wizard’s assistant” for decoy, but I'll leave it for now;
otherwise all official rules available;
plus the ability to use craft skill to produce actual technology and also to use alchemy for non-magical chemical effects (that I would for simplicity’s sake equal to most alchemical products of the rules, though likely not the weird tanglefoot bags etc.);
For a start, I’ll do level 5 to also have a basis for measuring the character’s performance at some point using the same game test (possibly in a later thread).
My ideas so far are, for a middle-aged 5th level human feat* rogue
Basic stats (still work in progress)
STR 7, DEX 14 (stat gain at lvl 4), CON 11, INT 16, WIS 11, CHR 14
Hit Points: 15 (max at first level, quick trait)
AC: 13 (DEX, leather coat counting as armour, vulnerable flaw; can be increased with combat expertise and fighting defensively to 19)
Attack bonus (ranged, light crossbow): +6 (dmg 1d8)
Initiative: +6 (DEX, feat)
Saves: +1 (fort, +3 with luck), +6 (refl.), +1 (will, +3 with luck)
Move: 40ft (with the quick trait)
*Rogue for maximum skill points, also fits the fluff. The feat rogue variant I took so far because I cannot somehow fit the fluff of sneak attack with this magician concept. Also, more feats are nice…
Feats (work in progress)
We got 3 general feats to work with (level 1,3, human) and 3 fighter bonus feats. Flaws are liekly necessary, but I'll see how this thread develops (current flaw ideas: vulnerable, non-combatant).
Those should be used to help the character survive and improve the main skills he has.
Ideas for Fighter bonus feats:
Improved initative (Rogue 1)
Combat expertise (Rogue 2)
Quickdraw (Rogue 4)
Ideas for the three general feats plus two flaw feats:
Education (to get all knowledge skills as class skills – note that he may in the course of adventuring get more combat-oriented and then take knowledge devotion, but at this point he has no clue about the creatures he'll encounter except for knowledge-local and thus humanoids, not even animals as a typical city guy.).
Skill Focus-Diplomacy
Negotiator
Lucky start (reroll Initiative up to 3/day due to luck pool of 3)
Unbelievable luck (level 3)
Skills (work in progress)
Human plus INT bonus, plus rogue yields 8x12=96 skill points.
Now, what to take?
In “Now You See Me”, the Four Horsemen magicians show in particular the following skills (and so it will be a good starting point to make use of them):
Daniel – diplomacy , bluff, escape artist, sleight of hand, bluff
Henley – escape artist
Jack – tumble, jump, escape artist, open locks, disable device, search
Merritt – bluff, intimidate (the closest the skill system gets to hypnosis, maybe should be blended with diplomacy), sense motive, spot
All are also pretty good at blending with the crowd (hide), performing before an audience with comedy and general entertainment (perform), and also likely move silently and generally good acrobatics. Plus, I bet they are pretty gifted with forgery and computer science, technical gadgets etc. Hard to put into a skill (except forgery and knowledge-local), but so far “craft – mundane mechanic devices and/or traps” should suffice.
In “Oz the Great and Powerful”, the main character Oscar Diggs is limited by an early 1900s level of technology. His skills imo probably focus on sleight of hand, disguise (he works way more with costumes than the four horsemen), bluff and diplomacy.
Now, the key to achieve “magic” effects with these skills is to convince people that they perceive things differently from what they really are.
Bluff and diplomacy appear to be most important for this, as maybe be hide/move silently, sleight of hand and disguise.
For being able to “read minds”, sense motive could work to a certain extent.
Escape artist for getting out of manacles, grapples etc.
Tumble and jump at least to rank 5 for synergy and defensive fighting.
This fake magician can also get up to 3 skill tricks, so far I would prefer collector of stories, shrouded dance and social recovery.
This adds up so far to the following:
Max ranks in (total 56): diplomacy, bluff, escape artist, spot, hide, move silently, search
5 ranks in (total 25): knowledge-local, tumble, jump, sense motive, perform (dance; for the skill trick shrouded dance)
Skill tricks (6): collector of stories, shrouded dance, social recovery
Undecided (total 9 ranks remaining): forgery, disguise, craft-traps/mechanics, craft-alchemy, open locks, disable device
Languages (from INT): Common, Elven, Dwarf, Celestial
Items (work in progress, no magic, imagine him arriving fresh from our world)
Total wbl: 9,000 gp
Here, I am not sure yet whether to include mundane modern items – for instance even a pistol instead of the masterwork crossbow (335 gp).
Items that I think so far fitting:
50gp: entertainer clothes that are like masterwork bonus to one social skill
160gp: Masterwork leather coat (very fashionable) working as a leather armour
2: Backpack
50: Masterwork manacles:
Ca. 20x50: Masterwork items for all skills, including masterwork crafting tools for mechanics/traps
Deck(s) of cards …
Lantern, candles
100: Magnifying glass
Spyglass
Healing kit
Undetermined quantities of: Antitoxin, Acid flask, Alchemist’s fire, Tindertwig, Thunderstone, Sunrod
Current total weight may pose a problem, in particular with all the masterwork items, so I might yet increase STR in the final build…
On general strategies and tactics (work in progress)
This is where I am stuck yet/not yet completely where I want this character to be.
Social skills / diplomancer route is a major ability here to survive anything at all. Basically, get hostile creatures to leave him alone etc. His diplomacy skill so far is +21, or rushed +11 (8 ranks, CHR +2, +2 masterwork item, +2 from bluff, +2 from sense motive, +3 from skill focus, +2 negotiator), while bluff is +12 (8 ranks, CHR +2, masterwork item) and may be used for a +2 re-roll of the diplomacy skill due to social recovery skill trick.
To pull something against bigger odds as in the movie “Now You See Me”, however, this mundane magician needs a lot of planning ahead to make “the trick work” (a lot of DM help, for instance, if he wants to prepare something that 20 years later will have relevance like the card grown into a tree in the "Now You See Me" movie). He’ll need to know his opponents (possibly raising the relevant knowledge skills) and trick them into defeat. How that works out probably depends on the situation and the player’s skill and DM’s inclination to play along.
For instance, the mundane magician could lure monsters/opponents into traps he prepared or follow decoys instead of him while he already frees the princess.
Technical gadgets like Oz’ projector might also work to a degree. Will think on that.
Once I feel comfortable enough with the build – hopefully after some of your ideas here – I’ll give it a try in the same game test :smalleek:… Thanks for any input!
The basic concept is: What if a very, very skilled mundane magician / con artist of our world would be hurled (planeshifted whatever) into a typical 3.5 D&D scenario?
There are two great recent movies surrounding this theme: “Now You See Me” and “Oz the Great and Powerful” that will provide me with inspiration.
Any comments and ideas from your side would be really welcome! I hope I’ll get to play this character in a future game.
Obviously this character would have no real magic, just basically mundane abilities (mostly skills and very good strategies and tactics) to appear as if he would do magic, with maybe even similar effects (in particular in the eyes of non-casters).
Could this be done? And could such a character survive in a D&D world and for how long? (or even contribute and – possibly – fill the wizard’s role in the group)?
I’d impose the following conditions on the character build:
Human (obviously);
The languages, including bonus languages, should be adjusted to be part of the D&D world (say, his French language skill becomes elven language:smallwink:, English is the Common language etc … );
elite array, no magic item (at the beginning, and no magic item in adventuring that he has to activate, since he can work no real magic);
never gain any spells, sp or su abilities;
no wild cohort (“2 rules: never work with children or animals”:smallbiggrin:) – although leadership from level 6 onward may be an idea to get a “wizard’s assistant” for decoy, but I'll leave it for now;
otherwise all official rules available;
plus the ability to use craft skill to produce actual technology and also to use alchemy for non-magical chemical effects (that I would for simplicity’s sake equal to most alchemical products of the rules, though likely not the weird tanglefoot bags etc.);
For a start, I’ll do level 5 to also have a basis for measuring the character’s performance at some point using the same game test (possibly in a later thread).
My ideas so far are, for a middle-aged 5th level human feat* rogue
Basic stats (still work in progress)
STR 7, DEX 14 (stat gain at lvl 4), CON 11, INT 16, WIS 11, CHR 14
Hit Points: 15 (max at first level, quick trait)
AC: 13 (DEX, leather coat counting as armour, vulnerable flaw; can be increased with combat expertise and fighting defensively to 19)
Attack bonus (ranged, light crossbow): +6 (dmg 1d8)
Initiative: +6 (DEX, feat)
Saves: +1 (fort, +3 with luck), +6 (refl.), +1 (will, +3 with luck)
Move: 40ft (with the quick trait)
*Rogue for maximum skill points, also fits the fluff. The feat rogue variant I took so far because I cannot somehow fit the fluff of sneak attack with this magician concept. Also, more feats are nice…
Feats (work in progress)
We got 3 general feats to work with (level 1,3, human) and 3 fighter bonus feats. Flaws are liekly necessary, but I'll see how this thread develops (current flaw ideas: vulnerable, non-combatant).
Those should be used to help the character survive and improve the main skills he has.
Ideas for Fighter bonus feats:
Improved initative (Rogue 1)
Combat expertise (Rogue 2)
Quickdraw (Rogue 4)
Ideas for the three general feats plus two flaw feats:
Education (to get all knowledge skills as class skills – note that he may in the course of adventuring get more combat-oriented and then take knowledge devotion, but at this point he has no clue about the creatures he'll encounter except for knowledge-local and thus humanoids, not even animals as a typical city guy.).
Skill Focus-Diplomacy
Negotiator
Lucky start (reroll Initiative up to 3/day due to luck pool of 3)
Unbelievable luck (level 3)
Skills (work in progress)
Human plus INT bonus, plus rogue yields 8x12=96 skill points.
Now, what to take?
In “Now You See Me”, the Four Horsemen magicians show in particular the following skills (and so it will be a good starting point to make use of them):
Daniel – diplomacy , bluff, escape artist, sleight of hand, bluff
Henley – escape artist
Jack – tumble, jump, escape artist, open locks, disable device, search
Merritt – bluff, intimidate (the closest the skill system gets to hypnosis, maybe should be blended with diplomacy), sense motive, spot
All are also pretty good at blending with the crowd (hide), performing before an audience with comedy and general entertainment (perform), and also likely move silently and generally good acrobatics. Plus, I bet they are pretty gifted with forgery and computer science, technical gadgets etc. Hard to put into a skill (except forgery and knowledge-local), but so far “craft – mundane mechanic devices and/or traps” should suffice.
In “Oz the Great and Powerful”, the main character Oscar Diggs is limited by an early 1900s level of technology. His skills imo probably focus on sleight of hand, disguise (he works way more with costumes than the four horsemen), bluff and diplomacy.
Now, the key to achieve “magic” effects with these skills is to convince people that they perceive things differently from what they really are.
Bluff and diplomacy appear to be most important for this, as maybe be hide/move silently, sleight of hand and disguise.
For being able to “read minds”, sense motive could work to a certain extent.
Escape artist for getting out of manacles, grapples etc.
Tumble and jump at least to rank 5 for synergy and defensive fighting.
This fake magician can also get up to 3 skill tricks, so far I would prefer collector of stories, shrouded dance and social recovery.
This adds up so far to the following:
Max ranks in (total 56): diplomacy, bluff, escape artist, spot, hide, move silently, search
5 ranks in (total 25): knowledge-local, tumble, jump, sense motive, perform (dance; for the skill trick shrouded dance)
Skill tricks (6): collector of stories, shrouded dance, social recovery
Undecided (total 9 ranks remaining): forgery, disguise, craft-traps/mechanics, craft-alchemy, open locks, disable device
Languages (from INT): Common, Elven, Dwarf, Celestial
Items (work in progress, no magic, imagine him arriving fresh from our world)
Total wbl: 9,000 gp
Here, I am not sure yet whether to include mundane modern items – for instance even a pistol instead of the masterwork crossbow (335 gp).
Items that I think so far fitting:
50gp: entertainer clothes that are like masterwork bonus to one social skill
160gp: Masterwork leather coat (very fashionable) working as a leather armour
2: Backpack
50: Masterwork manacles:
Ca. 20x50: Masterwork items for all skills, including masterwork crafting tools for mechanics/traps
Deck(s) of cards …
Lantern, candles
100: Magnifying glass
Spyglass
Healing kit
Undetermined quantities of: Antitoxin, Acid flask, Alchemist’s fire, Tindertwig, Thunderstone, Sunrod
Current total weight may pose a problem, in particular with all the masterwork items, so I might yet increase STR in the final build…
On general strategies and tactics (work in progress)
This is where I am stuck yet/not yet completely where I want this character to be.
Social skills / diplomancer route is a major ability here to survive anything at all. Basically, get hostile creatures to leave him alone etc. His diplomacy skill so far is +21, or rushed +11 (8 ranks, CHR +2, +2 masterwork item, +2 from bluff, +2 from sense motive, +3 from skill focus, +2 negotiator), while bluff is +12 (8 ranks, CHR +2, masterwork item) and may be used for a +2 re-roll of the diplomacy skill due to social recovery skill trick.
To pull something against bigger odds as in the movie “Now You See Me”, however, this mundane magician needs a lot of planning ahead to make “the trick work” (a lot of DM help, for instance, if he wants to prepare something that 20 years later will have relevance like the card grown into a tree in the "Now You See Me" movie). He’ll need to know his opponents (possibly raising the relevant knowledge skills) and trick them into defeat. How that works out probably depends on the situation and the player’s skill and DM’s inclination to play along.
For instance, the mundane magician could lure monsters/opponents into traps he prepared or follow decoys instead of him while he already frees the princess.
Technical gadgets like Oz’ projector might also work to a degree. Will think on that.
Once I feel comfortable enough with the build – hopefully after some of your ideas here – I’ll give it a try in the same game test :smalleek:… Thanks for any input!