First Time DM

[BeastofMadness]

Okay, so let me preface this with a little bit of information. I have about a week until I may have to start being the DM. Now, I have run a session for one person, things went smoothly, I had a lot of fun and so did the other person. Now, I am jumping feet first straight into being the DM for six people.

Needless to say, I am more than just a little intimidated by the task. I am doing this as a favor to our current DM, his soul is being saved by me as he hates being DM now because the group is basically just looking for a fight constantly and being silly. We are talking stupid silly, as in helping evil people without investigating anything. Full blown silly, making stupid decisions.

Now, I want to make sure house rules that I have are fair, but I know a few groups may disagree on some of these. I want opinions on this stuff:

1. Weapon Finesse - Apply Dex Mod to both attack rolls and damage rolls
2. Dex applies to ranged weapons
3. Undead apply Charisma to HP
4. Two Natural 20's instakill
5. Weapon Training - Adds levels of dice to damage because you 'specialized' in said weapon.
6. Skill points added on to every level [+5 every level] [Not added into the x4 at first level]
7. One feat per level
8. Ambidexterity - Reduces penalties to two weapon fighting by 1, minimum of -1 on attack rolls
9. You must confirm critical fumbles on a natural 1 in combat
10. At rank 10 or higher for a skill, you do not automatically fail on a 1, you instead apply a -10 modifier to your total for your skill.

Now, I understand that some of this is going to allow some shenanigans, and I understand that as having played some shenanigans. I want them to take this campaign seriously, and legitimately roleplay at the table. Any advice would be welcome, as I am just seeking some general tips and tricks along with advice for house rules.

[ngilop]

1) thats a good idea, allow it to apply just to weapons and its golden

2) another great idea

3) Some undead get this already.. id just leave it alone myslef

4) NO. The players are going tohave literally millions of times as many attacks agains them as any sinlge creature this rule just increases the chances for them to die ignobly

5) This is a wonderfully refreshing idea.. Are you like adding Xd6 per every weapon focus line feat or what exactly is yoru ideas on this

6) Your adding too mnay skill points here id bump every non INT based class to have a minimum of 4 per level

7) that may be a bit too much, consider going the pathfidner route and every odd level instead

8) The feats and different weapon types allow one to completle ignore any penalties for duel wielding. COnsider allowing Ambidexterity to allow full Str (or full Dex) dmg to the off hand as well, thats what I did with my ambidexteryity feat

9) I do that as well, in a world where somehow in addiiton to a weapons standard damage range you can also score critical hit. I then have a additon % roll i do to see what befalls the person ( the biggest chunk is the are knocked off balance and take a -2 Dex penalty for the remainder of the round)

10) you do not fail skills on a roll of 1 to begin with. Id recommend also increases the skill synergy gaining an addtion +2 for every 5th rank after 5you put said skill.

[Xerlith]

Some things I'd do.
About 2WF:
Throw Ambidexterity out the window, make the 2WF feat effectively the PTWF and make it count as the whole line.

Give feats every odd level.

Drop fumbles at all.

[BeastofMadness]

4) NO. The players are going to have literally millions of times as many attacks against them as any single creature this rule just increases the chances for them to die ignobly

5) This is a wonderfully refreshing idea.. Are you like adding Xd6 per every weapon focus line feat or what exactly is yoru ideas on this

6) Your adding too mnay skill points here id bump every non INT based class to have a minimum of 4 per level

7) that may be a bit too much, consider going the pathfidner route and every odd level instead

8) The feats and different weapon types allow one to completle ignore any penalties for duel wielding. COnsider allowing Ambidexterity to allow full Str (or full Dex) dmg to the off hand as well, thats what I did with my ambidexteryity feat

10) you do not fail skills on a roll of 1 to begin with. Id recommend also increases the skill synergy gaining an addtion +2 for every 5th rank after 5you put said skill.


Okay, addressing some of these. Number four is for players only, meaning if they get two twenties, they auto kill. I want them to have something that gives them a bit of an edge, and I will certainly not be using this against them as I have the enemies actually being smart and using tactics.

As for adding the extra dice, it will be every five levels. You add 1 die at first, and for every time after that you add two. A great sword for example at fifth level would then do 3d6, at tenth it would do 5d6, 15 would be 7d6. This can all be applied to one weapon [if they like being a one trick pony] or applied to various weapons, but the first time is always one additional die, and thereafter it is two.

The reason I did it as a +5 is because some classes have way too many class skills to put a nice spread between, and to give some encouragement to put some points into non-class skills. It is kind of a shove towards using non-class skills, and would be rewarding should someone play a fighter [still think it is silly that they don't even get spot and listen].

I can see the point on feats, and if it happens to be a problem, I may just revoke it to one every odd level. I only intend to do this if there is major feat abuse, as I like to let people have a wide variety of feats. There are so many feats, and limiting feats kind of was a point that I didn't like as a player.

As for Ambidexterity, I can actually see your point and am more than willing to change it to that. That would actually make sense, and is a lot more viable than what I currently am thinking of. Thank you for the suggestion.

As of currently, the current campaign going on, a natural one on a skill is an auto-failure. The players currently seem to enjoy this, so I am only making it so that there is an incentive to get the ranks above ten. I may just go with the actual rules, or put it up to a vote with the players at the beginning of the first session. After all, I think that they should have some say in this, simply because they have been playing with the nat 1 is a failure rule.

[Darrin]

I am doing this as a favor to our current DM, his soul is being saved by me as he hates being DM now because the group is basically just looking for a fight constantly and being silly. We are talking stupid silly, as in helping evil people without investigating anything. Full blown silly, making stupid decisions.




I want them to take this campaign seriously, and legitimately roleplay at the table.


This is the largest red flag I can see. If your players just want to goof off and kill things, and you want a serious campaign, then there's a good chance you're going to try and ram a style of play down their throats, and they're not going to like it. If you can't bring yourself to DM in the style that they prefer... then your group may need to find a new DM.

Possible strategies/solutions:

1) Discuss an "enforcement policy" with the players and have them agree to it explicitly beforehand. You can use black chips (Deadlands), black dice, "villain points" (action points for villains), a "swear jar"/"pizza fund", etc.

2) Use the previous DM as an "Enforcer". The rest of the players are likely to defer/appeal to him on rules disputes, and he may wind up gravitating towards "party leader" by default. If he "leads by example", the rest of the group might follow along. If they don't, he can give them "gentle reminders". You may also want to surreptitiously make sure the Enforcer's PC has enough magic items/HPs that if he says "Stop joking around or we're going to throw down right here and I'm going to murderhobo your PC", then the threat will be taken seriously. Odds are good the previous DM has enough system mastery you won't have to do this deliberately.

3) Use a campaign setting that the majority of players are deadly serious about. They may want to be silly in a generic D&D fantasy setting, but if it's House Lannister vs. House Targaryen, they may start chastising *you* on not being serious enough about geographic accuracy, local customs, battle tactics, etc.



4. Two Natural 20's instakill


Make it three. The number of attacks vs. PCs compared to attacks vs. monsters is weighted very hard towards the PCs. Two natural 20's essentially turns every single monster weapon (natural or otherwise) into a Vorpal sword. Odds are this is going to instakill a PC before it kills a monster.



8. Ambidexterity - Reduces penalties to two weapon fighting by 1, minimum of -1 on attack rolls


Reduce penalties by 2, minimum 0, and call it a day. Combine TWF, Improved TWF, and Greater TWF into a single TWF feat.



9. You must confirm critical fumbles on a natural 1 in combat


Confirm how, exactly?

[BeastofMadness]

This is the largest red flag I can see. If your players just want to goof off and kill things, and you want a serious campaign, then there's a good chance you're going to try and ram a style of play down their throats, and they're not going to like it. If you can't bring yourself to DM in the style that they prefer... then your group may need to find a new DM.

Possible strategies/solutions:

1) Discuss an "enforcement policy" with the players and have them agree to it explicitly beforehand. You can use black chips (Deadlands), black dice, "villain points" (action points for villains), a "swear jar"/"pizza fund", etc.

2) Use the previous DM as an "Enforcer". The rest of the players are likely to defer/appeal to him on rules disputes, and he may wind up gravitating towards "party leader" by default. If he "leads by example", the rest of the group might follow along. If they don't, he can give them "gentle reminders". You may also want to surreptitiously make sure the Enforcer's PC has enough magic items/HPs that if he says "Stop joking around or we're going to throw down right here and I'm going to murderhobo your PC", then the threat will be taken seriously. Odds are good the previous DM has enough system mastery you won't have to do this deliberately.

3) Use a campaign setting that the majority of players are deadly serious about. They may want to be silly in a generic D&D fantasy setting, but if it's House Lannister vs. House Targaryen, they may start chastising *you* on not being serious enough about geographic accuracy, local customs, battle tactics, etc.



Make it three. The number of attacks vs. PCs compared to attacks vs. monsters is weighted very hard towards the PCs. Two natural 20's essentially turns every single monster weapon (natural or otherwise) into a Vorpal sword. Odds are this is going to instakill a PC before it kills a monster.



Reduce penalties by 2, minimum 0, and call it a day. Combine TWF, Improved TWF, and Greater TWF into a single TWF feat.



Confirm how, exactly?

Well, I want this campaign to be serious. I am not going to jam a play style down their throat, but I will try and coax them more because I have already had two of the six say that they actually want to role play more than just murder hobo.

I am going to be having the previous DM on standby, occasionally helping me in the case of rules and such. He just really appreciates me taking this from him because he is tired of DM'ing since he has pretty much had to run two campaigns in a row because the other DM for the first campaign we had decided to flake out on his side of the responsibilities.

As I have stated already, the natural 20's is one sided, weighing it in favor of the PC's. Monster are not getting that chance, period. It is seriously weighted in favor of monsters period, simply because there are so many of them. I want to give the players something they can have over the monsters, should they get so lucky to roll two twenties in a row.

The Ambidexterity thing I can see, as it would probably help someone should they go for it. I am probably just going to ask if anyone intends to do TWF, and if not, leave it be for now. I like both your idea and as previously mentioned, the damage idea.

And as for the confirmation, if they roll a natural 1 they must roll another attack roll. If they miss the AC of the monster/person, they then fumble. If not, they only lose the attack and can proceed. Nothing devastating as a fumble, maybe an AoO against them, or dropping their weapon, maybe a loss of AC for a round or two.

[John Longarrow]

I'd talk to your players about what style of play they like most. If they only want a silly game, run with it and have fun! If they are up for something a little more serious, let your first adventure set the tone.


For a very serious feel, I'd suggest giving them something that they can feel serious about. Most "Kill the orcs in the hole" dungeons can turn silly with a party inclined to go that way. Let them try something more serious (read finding item to save person's life or stopping kids from being kidnapped) and see how they like it. Especially if they need to use something besides their combat prowess to complete the adventure.

[Volos]

Okay, so let me preface this with a little bit of information. I have about a week until I may have to start being the DM. Now, I have run a session for one person, things went smoothly, I had a lot of fun and so did the other person. Now, I am jumping feet first straight into being the DM for six people.

Awesome! You're getting to experience the game from a completely different angle. It may seem like a lot of work, but if done correctly, it will be a great experience for yourself and the group.


Needless to say, I am more than just a little intimidated by the task. I am doing this as a favor to our current DM, his soul is being saved by me as he hates being DM now because the group is basically just looking for a fight constantly and being silly. We are talking stupid silly, as in helping evil people without investigating anything. Full blown silly, making stupid decisions.

It is expected that you would feel intimidated, it is your first time running a game! A rotation between individuals capable of filling the DM chair can be healthy for a gaming group. Different approaches to the campaign or play style can breathe new life into the hobby. As for your group's attitude toward the game, acting like Chaotic Evil idiots, it seems they are bored with the game the previous DM was running.


Now, I understand that some of this is going to allow some shenanigans, and I understand that as having played some shenanigans. I want them to take this campaign seriously, and legitimately roleplay at the table. Any advice would be welcome, as I am just seeking some general tips and tricks along with advice for house rules.

If you're looking to run your game with a serious tone, to have your players enjoy the campaign, and to actually run a 'role-playing game' rather than a 'roll-playing game'; you should check out The Angry DM (http://angrydm.com/). I thought I knew what I was doing, then I read his articles, and I realized how I was pushing my players into non-serious behavior and crashing my game into the ground. You want to look at his articles on Adjudicating Like A Boss and Getting The Most Out Of Your Skill System.

If you don't have time to read them right now, it boils down to this... Your players shouldn't ask you to make skill checks or attack rolls. They should tell you WHAT they want to do and HOW they want to go about doing it; describing it as if they were a character in a novel or movie. Player:: "Volos quietly retrieves his grappling hook and length of hemp rope. Throwing the hook toward an outcropping of rock, he begins to scale the wall." You decide what needs to be rolled (if it needs to be rolled at all) and tell them what to roll. DM:: "You need to avoid drawing attention, make the shot with the grappling hook, and climb to the top of the cliff. Roll Stealth, A Ranged Attack Roll, and Climb." He goes into more detail about when not to roll to speed up game play as well as save the rolls for dramatic moments in your game, and how to get the most out of roleplaying with your players.


Now, I want to make sure house rules that I have are fair, but I know a few groups may disagree on some of these. I want opinions on this stuff:

My responses are in the spoiler below...



1. Weapon Finesse - Apply Dex Mod to both attack rolls and damage rolls
There is a feat in Pathfinder called Dervish Dancer that adds Dex to damage with certain weapons. I would, in my own game, prefer to have a player take a feat to get such an advantage.


2. Dex applies to ranged weapons
I assume you mean Dex to damage on ranged weapons. Ranged weapons are typically difficult to get damage bonuses to simply because there needs to be a cost for the low risk venture of attacking at range. If you could deal as much or more damage without having to risk your hide, why would anyone ever bother with wielding a sword?


3. Undead apply Charisma to HP
This is fine. Most undead, even with d12 Hit Die, have absurdly low health. Be mindful that certain undead can ignore many types of damage, and/or have high DR against all but one type of damage. Adding more HP to a monster isn't the only way to make it more challenging, nor is it the best way. Consider giving Undead some teamwork feats, so that in numbers they are more dangerous.


4. Two Natural 20's instakill
I'd go with two natural 20s and a third roll to confirm the instakill just as one would confirm a crit. I would also extend it to allowing an instakill during coup-de-grace if they roll a single 20 on the attack (I know you don't have to roll, but letting them roll a 20 and confirming the instakill makes it dramatic and fun)


5. Weapon Training - Adds levels of dice to damage because you 'specialized' in said weapon.
An interesting idea, I'm not sure how well it would work. I'd playtest it in a few situations before making it official. If it does work, I'd make the extra dice precision damage.


6. Skill points added on to every level [+5 every level] [Not added into the x4 at first level]
No. Just no. Skills are crazy enough without making everyone an expert in everything.


7. One feat per level
Feats every odd level works well enough for Pathfinder, 3.5 could do with the same. Feats every level will make it difficult for your players to follow their own builds, much less be balanced.


8. Ambidexterity - Reduces penalties to two weapon fighting by 1, minimum of -1 on attack rolls
Not the most broken thing, as two weapon fighting only works during full attacks honestly.


9. You must confirm critical fumbles on a natural 1 in combat
Fine, give them a chance to not kill a friend or look stupid.


10. At rank 10 or higher for a skill, you do not automatically fail on a 1, you instead apply a -10 modifier to your total for your skill.
Okay... not sure I understand this one. But seems fine, I guess. Home rules are obviously at play that I don't understand.

[BeastofMadness]

If you're looking to run your game with a serious tone, to have your players enjoy the campaign, and to actually run a 'role-playing game' rather than a 'roll-playing game'; you should check out The Angry DM (http://angrydm.com/). I thought I knew what I was doing, then I read his articles, and I realized how I was pushing my players into non-serious behavior and crashing my game into the ground. You want to look at his articles on Adjudicating Like A Boss and Getting The Most Out Of Your Skill System.


Thank you for the link, I have read only one article and I will surely read more. I will certainly keep all of this in mind as I go forward, taking my staggering steps in the fresh world of DM'ing.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I would recommend avoiding crit fumbles. They tend to take away power from mundanes far more than they would casters.

[jjcrpntr]

Some of your rule ideas sound fun.

As a new player who thinks it would be a lot of fun to DM some time in the future I'll keep those in mind.

I wanted to comment on your "silly party" My group just switched dms. We have two guys that have a lot of DM experience so every other campaign one plays, the other dms. Our first two campaigns we had the same guy and it was a lot of fun. But totally silly. For example we were dealing with a necromancers book that was causing ghouls to spawn throughout the city. While we were gathering information one of our party members was told that a local "seer" had a vision of an octopus covered in gold rings.

Our group spent the next THREE gaming nights almost entirely goofing off running around town asking if anyone had seen the "Octopimp" one of the guys actually drew a sketch that he could show people in game. It was hilarious.

Fast forward to last weekend we switched to our other DM member. Game takes a completely different feel. Before the game he laid out very clear guidelines, and the very first fight damn near killed half our group, the second fight killed all but one of us. So we all learned very quickly that the new DM isn't as light hearted about things as the other guy was. So an option might be give them some incredibly hard encounters where they'd have to take it serious, or since you are a new DM lay down firm rules. While the rules may not be that serious in reality it may make them take note that it's not going to be a silly campaign.