Goblin Paladin?

[ngilop]

Hey all, I am currently in a(PF) PbP game and yes my character is alive and well.

However I got struck with an odd idea.

I want to play as a goblin paladin, I use that term loosely btw.

I just thought the image of a goblin riding a golbin dog inot battle clad in armor and spouting holy righteuousness would be an interesting quirk.

How would one go about doing that in terms of class levels.

Right now i am thining of going paladin 2/Oracle 18 and taking wild cohort as my first level feat ( some 3.5 stuff is allowed)

As for mounted combat i really never had any interest in it in most D&D, BUT with being a goblin and riding a medium sized animal i CAN go inside that ruin and such now.

[Nihilarian]

Pretty much nothing the goblin has benefits the paladin. Small size, penalties to strength/charisma, a useless bonus to land speed (because you're mounted). At best, +4 dexterity is respectable for an archer paladin, but I don't think it's worth it. A ranger or cavalier would probably be better.

[zql]

Just do it. It will be inefficiently hilarious.

[zql]

Don Quijote didn't have good strenght, wisdom or charisma scores for all that matters. And the guy is a legend. The important thing is that your goblin could be just as good-hearted.

[Rebel7284]

Do you want to take the actual paladin class? You can be a holy warrior in a number of other ways. I prefer Cleric/Crusader/Ruby Knight Vindicator

Bhuka from standstorm is a goblin with -2 Str +2 Dex.

[Yuki Akuma]

Take that feat that lets you use a torch as a weapon.

You know you want to.

[Sam K]

Don Quijote didn't have good strenght, wisdom or charisma scores for all that matters. And the guy is a legend. The important thing is that your goblin could be just as good-hearted.

Fighting windmills might not be such a good idea in D&D though. Giant size and 4 arms, they could pack a punch!

[Aolbain]

Do you want to take the actual paladin class? You can be a holy warrior in a number of other ways. I prefer Cleric/Crusader/Ruby Knight Vindicator

Bhuka from standstorm is a goblin with -2 Str +2 Dex.

Pathfinder.

[zql]

Fighting windmills might not be such a good idea in D&D though. Giant size and 4 arms, they could pack a punch!

I wonder what the AC of that barber's basin was. I mean, Mambrino's helmet, of course...

[BWR]

Go for it. Have fun. Don't worry about optimizing or 'good' races or builds for it.
Heck in my PF game we have an ogre paladin NPC who started out as a 4th level barbarian. The party paladin spared his life and treated him like a decent sentient, civilized being and set him on the path to righteousness, and now he's a righteous warrior who has dedicated his life to civilizing and redeeming the traditional evil humanoid races, trying to build bridges between the 'good' and the 'evil' races. Thanks to his race and strength he can usually make the humanoids listen to him, and he's not afraid to crack a few skulls to get them to behave. Thanks to his intelligence, charisma and languages skills, he can usually talk to the humans and demihumans and convince them not to attack him or the other humanoids without provocation.

Is ogre a 'good' race for a paladin? Not really, what with the Charisma penalty, level reduction and general society they have.
Is multiclassing barbarian/paladin a good build? Not really. They don't synergize, and you lose out on the better abilities of either class that you would have gotten if you stayed single-classed.
Is he a fun character? Hell yes. The players and the PCs like him, he's doing what he can to overcome milennia of mutual hatred and build a truly egalitarian society.

[Hyena]

Is multiclassing barbarian/paladin a good build?
Eh. You really can't go wrong with barbarian.

[Cog]

If you aren't worried about having the word Paladin on your character sheet, goblins make fun Dawnflower Dervish Bards (the fluff of DD is pretty paladin-like, so this isn't a stretch). There's even a feat to get your improved Inspire Courage bonus applied to your saves to replace Divine Grace.

[lytokk]

I would say focus on ranged smiting. Riding dog can keep you moving around the battlefield and clear enough of melee. Sounds like an interesting idea for me, go for it.

[Slipperychicken]

Just a warning; I'm currently doing a similar thing (Halfling Luring Cavalier) and it kind of sucks. If you want to be a good ranged combatant at low levels, you're basically forced to either be Human or get multiple bonus feats from your class (i.e. be a fighter). It just takes way too many feats* to make it worthwhile (Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Deadly Aim are all basically required).

That said, it can be pretty fun if the rest of your group is garbage at character-building (i.e. "Whoa, -2 to saves is OP as hell"). If that's the case, go for it.

[Particle_Man]

Eh. You really can't go wrong with barbarian.

Mind you, as an LG PF paladin I think he loses all ability to rage, which is one of the barbarian's defining features.

[ngilop]

Im not really looking to be the most optimized holy warrior ever.

I just want the concept of a paladin. Im not really concerned on what classes that entails. I need to use PF base classes, but PrCs from 3.5 are allowed.

I just put down 2 levels in paladin to get Cha to saves.

These are the stats allowed 16,15,14,11,10,9 OR 14,14,14,14, 12, 10

Heck im down for going straight cleric.

I just want to be able from 1st level onwards (even though IF my current character does kick the bucket it will be mid levels) to have a mount and fulfill the holy shining knight on horse back archetype.

I know of the mounted combat and indomnitable mount feats. Are there any other feast that i should be looking at?

Watch the movie Labyrinth and that dude riding the cowardly dog.. yeah thats what I have envisioned.

[ngilop]

SO.. do I need to ask for GiTP to optimize this idea to get any answers that are actually helpful let alone not get ones telling me im stupid for not playing an optimized race class combo?

[Slipperychicken]

SO.. do I need to ask for GiTP to optimize this idea to get any answers that are actually helpful let alone not get ones telling me im stupid for not playing an optimized race class combo?

What's your starting level? Also, do you guys get traits?

[Eldonauran]

Just do it. It will be inefficiently hilarious.

This. 100% just do it. Screw optimizing standards. :smallamused:


Im not really looking to be the most optimized holy warrior ever.

I just want the concept of a paladin. Im not really concerned on what classes that entails. I need to use PF base classes, but PrCs from 3.5 are allowed.

I just put down 2 levels in paladin to get Cha to saves.

These are the stats allowed 16,15,14,11,10,9 OR 14,14,14,14, 12, 10

I suggest starting with the second set of scores. 14, 14, 14, 14, 12, 10. With your racial scores:

Str: 12
Dex: 18
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 12
Cha: 12

Put your favored classes bonus in skills points (or swap Int/Wis if you don't want the higher will save, or take a trait for it).

Take weapon finesse. For the love of all that is goblin, take this feat Roll With It (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/roll-with-it-combat-goblin). Get acrobatics as a class skill Wisdom in the Flesh (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/religion-traits/wisdom-in-the-flesh-god-of-perfection) (you can use your wis in place of Dex for the skill, but you don't have to.)

Put your level up ability score bonus into Cha. Smite, smite, smite!

If you really want to go oracle, you'll need to take the first set of ability scores, putting the 16 in Cha and ending with a 14, though you'll get 19 by level 20, in time for your 9th level spells.

You will need to prioritize your Dex and wear armor that takes best use of it, moving upwards to mithril versions of heavy armor.

Since you will be mounted, take the Cave Crawler and Weapon Familiarity alternate racial traits (or go for the oversized ears for the +4 perception if you want more normal weapons). Cave crawler removes your fast speed, but you are going to be mounted away. You get a climb speed.

You can buy a riding dog to use in the first couple levels (I suggest a trait that gives you extra money, you deserve it when you play a goblin). They are easily equivalent to a dog and shouldnt pose a problem.

[Xuldarinar]

-snip-
Since you will be mounted, take the Cave Crawler and Weapon Familiarity alternate racial traits (or go for the oversized ears for the +4 perception if you want more normal weapons). -snip-


I agree with everything else, some great ideas here, with one exception.

Weapon Familiarity replaces Skilled. Do you really want to trade +4 to Ride checks if you are going to be doing mounted combat?

[Eldonauran]

I agree with everything else, some great ideas here, with one exception.

Weapon Familiarity replaces Skilled. Do you really want to trade +4 to Ride checks if you are going to be doing mounted combat?

Depends if he wants to go full Goblin and stick with goblin weapons. I prefer the oversized ears racial. Four reasons why:

1: Ride is a class skill for Paladin
2: Ride is a dexterity based check
3: Perception is not a class skill for paladin or an oracle (depending on mystery)
4: Perception is one of the best skills to invest ranks into

It's a judgement call that I made based on my experiences. Your mileage may vary.

EDIT: I put together a quick charact sheet for a level 1 goblin created along the suggestions I gave you. Link to to sheet (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=785024) and you still have 377gp left to spend on a riding dog and to deck it out in armor/barding.

I recommend taking an Oath of Vengeance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/oathbound-paladin/oath-of-vengeance) if you go full paladin.

[Nihilarian]

For a non-mounted character, Roll With It could be a fun way to prevent damage. For a mounted character, suddenly you're not mounted.

I'd still say cavalier or ranger, rather than paladin, but it's not that big of a deal.

As an aside, the Dogslicer and Horsechopper are martial weapons, so Weapon Familiarity is useless for you.

[T.G. Oskar]

SO.. do I need to ask for GiTP to optimize this idea to get any answers that are actually helpful let alone not get ones telling me im stupid for not playing an optimized race class combo?

Patience, grasshopper! You mentioned that you were thinking about the build just "for fun", and explained the build bare-bones, so people will start highlighting the problems before working out. Since you mentioned you're not exactly IN love with the Paladin class/Goblin race combination and that you're willing to choose other builds (just retain the flavor), you're inviting that kind of opinion.

I'm not really interested in PF at all, but I wanted to leave this (http://goblinscomic.wikia.com/wiki/Big_Ears) link here. He's a Goblin Paladin, and while not as intolerant as most Paladins, he still ends up being pretty awesome. Doesn't really have a mount (hasn't reached level 4 yet, IIRC) and uses a Greataxe rather than Goblin-specific weapons, but that doesn't mean the idea hasn't been done yet.


Depends if he wants to go full Goblin and stick with goblin weapons. I prefer the oversized ears racial. Four reasons why:

1: Ride is a class skill for Paladin
2: Ride is a dexterity based check
3: Perception is not a class skill for paladin or an oracle (depending on mystery)
4: Perception is one of the best skills to invest ranks into

It's a judgement call that I made based on my experiences. Your mileage may vary.

Suddenly explains why Big Ears has...big ears. Go for this. Now!


I wonder what the AC of that barber's basin was. I mean, Mambrino's helmet, of course...

Not much, given that no helmet grants a bonus to AC, and...well, the design is highly inefficient. It's supposed to be the helmet of Ares, so it's meant to grant invincibility and invisibility. DR 20/epic, minimum, and Invisibility at-will. Besides, Quixote wore a cuirass (in fact, IIRC, his armor was anachronistic to his intentions as knight-errant), so aim him as having the same AC as wearing a breastplate and wielding a heavy shield. And of course, the Sidekick (from d20 Past, not the Leadership) feat, given how he had Sancho as a cohort. Not to mention large ranks in Perform (the story at the inn is a great example).

...Alright, alright, going off the tangent. Stopping now. Doesn't PF has Mounted Archery? And doesn't Smite Evil applies to ranged attacks? If you find ways to get more uses of Smite Evil, you could focus on only a few enemies and perhaps find a way to Greater Manyshot (or its equivalent, a Manyshot effect that transmits extra damage through all arrows, rather than one. DSP didn't cross that over?). That way, you can get to fight mounted, and apply your superior Smite Evil damage at a VERY safe distance.

[ngilop]

I was looking over the oracle mysteries and the nature one will net me a companion/mount.

I like the feat(s) that allow me to do cool things with fire/torches

But i know I do want feats/abilities that allow me to be a relevant characvter in combat and out of combat. I don't want to be a ubermount charge guy, Id rather hit things with my awesome torch of fire goodness.

Im not too concerned with my spell save DC as im pretty sure 100% of my spells will not care about saves being the occasional heal and a LOT of self buffs. like sheild of faith, holy aura, righteous might etc.


I know there is a dual curse archetype for an oracle.. but is there a way to pick up a second mystery. Like you pick one mystery ability from one mystery and thats all you ever get?

I guess that going straight oralce and choosing spells to make me 'fit' the paladin archetype is the best choice for me.

I know there are a couple PrCs that are basically 'paladin in 10 levels' in regards to smite and divine grace I just cannot think of any off the top of my head.

[ngilop]

Ok, I think that just selectting the spells as an oracle to 'fit' the paladin archetype and going into Sacred Exorcist after 8th level will be a pretty good representation of a 'paladin'

My feats in no particular order are going to be
- Mounted Combat
- Indomnitable Mount
- Charge of the Righteous
- Fire hand

thats about all i got so far.

[ArqArturo]

Another idea would be a Holy Gun, with the goblin Gunslinger feat.

[Nihilarian]

For the PrC, you could go Prestige Paladin instead, though you'd have to work the details with the DM.

[Slipperychicken]

Another idea would be a Holy Gun, with the goblin Gunslinger feat.

Holy Gun is awful, though. Smiting shot is massively worse than vanilla smite evil. The only reason I can think of to take that class is to have the free gun and Gunsmithing from level 1. Even for that, you'd probably be best off with Gunslinger1/Divine Hunter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/divine-hunter)X because that gets you the free gun, firearm proficiency, the all-important quick clear deed (so your gun doesn't explode), vanilla smite evil, Detect Evil, and you get Precise Shot as a bonus feat (freeing up your precious feat slots for stuff like Rapid Reload).

Also, the goblin gunslinger feat seems like something to get after you've filled out your all-but-mandatory ranged weapon feat-chain (i.e. point blank shot, precise shot, rapid reload, rapid shot, deadly aim, clustered shots) which you desperately need bonus feats to complete in a timely fashion.

[Nihilarian]

Mysterious Stranger/Divine Hunter could be a fun build. Charisma to attack twice for 1 Grit.

[Ravens_cry]

Mysterious Stranger/Divine Hunter could be a fun build. Charisma to attack twice for 1 Grit.
Divine Hunter sucks like a differential in pressure. Really, it does.Vanilla Smite does much more awesome things. If you want extra smite, be a Oath Paladin of Vengeance, and trade 2 lay on hands for an extra smite. Smite everything.
Mysterious Stranger dip does pair pretty nicely with Paladin, though it does have action economy issues as Personal Lay on Hands, Smite and Mysterious Stranger's Cha to Dam all take swift actions.

[AkbarTheGreat]

Mind you, as an LG PF paladin I think he loses all ability to rage, which is one of the barbarian's defining features.

Go Barbarian/Oracle instead, no worries about having to be lawful. 5 levels (or more) of oracle if you're lame and you can Rage cycle since you're immune to fatigue.