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Vargouille
2014-02-01, 10:55 AM
Hello! I've been trying to organise a Pathfinder game locally, and I'm having difficulty with two parts of the preparation: creating dungeons and placing treasure.

One difficulty I'm having is making both the treasure and the dungeon believable enough. I'm not entirely sure where I should place things to make them believable, and treasure isn't exactly fun to deal with. I don't want to end up saying, "Hey, there's a treasure chest with level appropriate loot near the exit! How convenient.", or just giving the PCs their gold reward through a quest giver. Apologies for the cliché, but I think that just ends up feeling 'videogamey'. But that way ends up shaving away quite a lot of the tedium for me. How do you place treasure in dungeons

Another problem is that my dungeons don't really seem all that believable, and they're a bit small and boring. Are there any good guides to making an interesting dungeon with a nice concept?

Thanks in advance for any help! :smallsmile:

Rhynn
2014-02-01, 11:11 AM
First, the dungeon needs to exist for a reason. A ruined city or castle, an old temple, an orc tribe's cave lair, whatever.

Then, the treasure has to be plausibly distributed: in a ruin, it'll be buried, lost, misplaced, or concealed. In a lair, it'll be stored safely or hidden.

This is heavily dependent on the system, though. In D&D 3.X, the players will be screwed if they don't find the treasure. In a sandboxy old D&D game, making the PCs work for every treasure is just fine: they have to find it, recognize it, etc. (Last time we played, my players only found a huge treasure in tiny gems because they broke up the desk it was concealed in into firewood...)

Some examples of classic dungeons (recognize that module!):

A drow vault
A pyramid in a ruined city that conceals an entryway into subterranean realms
A slavers' compound/stockade
A palace long ago ruined by a dragon's attack
A manor/castle unmoored from reality that traps people within it
A ruined monastery and the caves underneath it
An elven temple taken over by evil witches
The lost or hidden temple of some dark deity
A set of caves inhabited goblins and other creatures
A haunted tower
A giants' lair
A series of subterranean caverns inhabited by foul creatures
An abandoned adventurers' hideout
A lost tomb
A ruined temple of evil


And some classic places to place treasure:

On a corpse
Under a corpse
In a sack under a bed
Under a rotted straw mattress
In a (giant) rats' nest
Inside a hollow chair/table leg.
In a niche concealed in the wall, behind a painting, loose stone, illusory wall, etc.
In a sarcophagus
In a secret room
At the bottom of a pool (possibly too cloudy to see, must be felt for)
On a monster/creature's person
In plain sight in a monsters' lair
Being gambled over by dungeon inhabitants
In sacks or chests where the monsters live
In a locked or sealed vault

Subaru Kujo
2014-02-01, 11:19 AM
Fun place to place a weapon. On a corpse covered in a certain nasty variety of mold. The party has to figure out how to kill the mold and get the sword. Or they can just try to grapple it out of there (with like a grappling hook or a chain (which coincidentally is how my rogue got his excellent spiked chain) if they are feeling lucky.

DigoDragon
2014-02-01, 11:41 AM
If the current residents of the dungeon are smart enough (like orcs, goblins, kobolds, etc.) then they could be carrying some of that treasure on them. Magic items and cash make sense to find on their person cause they can use it. :smallsmile:

some guy
2014-02-01, 12:15 PM
Sometimes treasures are part of the dungeon; statuettes, murals inlayed with ivory, thrones, statues carying jewelry, statues inlayed with gemstones (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/PlayersHandbook8Cover.jpg)and for the inhabited dungeons; carpets, books, instruments etc.

Jay R
2014-02-01, 03:25 PM
And some classic places to place treasure:

Don't forget magpie's nests, middens, hollowed-out books, buried under the pile of copper pieces, inside a hollow in the bottom of a clay bedpan, etc.

Also, one large diamond in a glass chandelier can be in plain sight, but awfully hard to spot.

And I keep waiting for the perfect opportunity to hide a wand inside a candle.

Rhynn
2014-02-01, 03:29 PM
And I keep waiting for the perfect opportunity to hide a wand inside a candle.

That is completely evi. :smallbiggrin:

Slipperychicken
2014-02-02, 03:26 PM
That is completely evi. :smallbiggrin:

If the PCs have the self-control to scan their loot with Detect Magic before selling it, they ought to find it. Some groups don't do that, however.

Alejandro
2014-02-02, 04:37 PM
Don't forget magpie's nests, middens, hollowed-out books, buried under the pile of copper pieces, inside a hollow in the bottom of a clay bedpan, etc.

Also, one large diamond in a glass chandelier can be in plain sight, but awfully hard to spot.

And I keep waiting for the perfect opportunity to hide a wand inside a candle.

While I think the idea is hilarious, why would someone hide a presumably useful wand inside a candle, when they could be using it themselves, or having someone with them use it actively, instead of just hiding it?

Slipperychicken
2014-02-02, 04:44 PM
While I think the idea is hilarious, why would someone hide a presumably useful wand inside a candle, when they could be using it themselves, or having someone with them use it actively, instead of just hiding it?

Maybe it's a component for crafting something obscure like a Candle of Invocation? Or it's a cursed wand, and that's part of the ritual to purify it? Or the current owner worships a foul god of madness, which he thinks told him to do it for the lulz?

Magic is crazy in D&D, there all sorts of reasons to do something like shoving a wand into a candle.

Magesmiley
2014-02-02, 04:49 PM
unless it is raw ore or uncut gems, treasure doesn't end up where it is without a reason. Look at your dungeon's inhabitants and the dungeon's original history. Look at the treasure you are planning to place. Why would these things be there?

Intelligent creatures are often the easiest. They will use any useful items that they are aware of and secure any monetary wealth similar to a human. Put yourself in their shoes - magic armor, weapons, potions, etc. will most certainly be on the creatures and ready for use. Any caster-type items (wands, staves, scrolls, etc.) are likely to be in the hands of someone in the dungeon friendly who can use them. Items that can't be used are likely to be secured just like money. And how is the money secured? Usually guarded (active creatures watching for those looking to plunder the goods), hidden (where it is difficult to find), or secured (locked up, trapped, etc.).

Unintelligent creatures don't, for the most part, directly collect treasure. Some do so inadvertently (a scroll used to build a nest). Or creatures which they've slain will have done so. Sometimes unintelligent creatures get used as guards by intelligent ones, and have their treasure.

Completely unguarded stuff is pretty rare. The most common reason is that it was lost by someone. Dropped, forgotten, the owner died, etc. Depending on the background of your dungeon, the treasure might've been left by its original inhabitants. If you know who they were, it can give you some insight into how the items should've been protected.

Subaru Kujo
2014-02-02, 05:05 PM
While I think the idea is hilarious, why would someone hide a presumably useful wand inside a candle, when they could be using it themselves, or having someone with them use it actively, instead of just hiding it?

Hidden weapon depository, possibly, like some people have hidden cabinets where they hide their guns.

Obviously, the effectiveness of this in a fantasy campaign may or may not be that useful. But it is an idea.

ElenionAncalima
2014-02-03, 10:05 AM
With treasure, I put most of the useful items on the enemies. I mostly fill chests with coins and tradeable goods like jems.

For dungeons, my only tip would be to remember what the dungeon actually is. For example, if creatures live in your dungeon, you should add places where they would eat and sleep. Having a fight with the crazy goblin chefs in the disgusting kitchen will be a lot more immersive than fighting goblin patrol #3 in generic cave room #4.

Jay R
2014-02-03, 10:28 AM
While I think the idea is hilarious, why would someone hide a presumably useful wand inside a candle, when they could be using it themselves, or having someone with them use it actively, instead of just hiding it?

Because the original owner believed that thieves would ignore a candle, so he thought dipping it in wax a couple of times would keep it safer.

I have many things I own, and actively use, but keep in a safe place when I'm not currently using them.

Slipperychicken
2014-02-03, 01:13 PM
For dungeons, my only tip would be to remember what the dungeon actually is. For example, if creatures live in your dungeon, you should add places where they would eat and sleep. Having a fight with the crazy goblin chefs in the disgusting kitchen will be a lot more immersive than fighting goblin patrol #3 in generic cave room #4.

Sounds like you could spice up a goblin chef encounter by adding a victim (or multiple victims) roasting over a fire, still breathing but who will surely die without immediate medical attention (extinquishing the flames within a few rounds should also allow the victim a chance to stabilize, and applying healing magic would buy some time, as fire only does ~1d6 per round).

Cealocanth
2014-02-03, 07:49 PM
If I am having trouble placing treasure, like in situations where there is absolutely no way that the enemies in the dungeon would have access to things like magic weapons or gold pieces, then I tend to grant treasure in jewelry and art objects. Even the most primitive cultures can create stone statues and figurines, gather expensive dyes, spices, or brew potions. Shiny rocks have value to anything with eyes, so uncut gemstones can be found too. Perhaps the players find a set of crudely written papyrus scrolls, but upon the scrolls is such profound arcane knowledge that these could fetch for 500gp to the right buyer. Maybe the party has found a strange necklace made of shards of pottery and bone. Not valuable to the common eye, perhaps, but invaluable to an archaeologist. Maybe one of the players realize that a spider's venom, or the blood of a certain demon, or a certain monster's hide is extremely valuable in resources.

Amphetryon
2014-02-03, 09:55 PM
While I think the idea is hilarious, why would someone hide a presumably useful wand inside a candle, when they could be using it themselves, or having someone with them use it actively, instead of just hiding it?

Candlecaster. Clearly, it was hidden by a Candlecaster.

nedz
2014-02-04, 03:21 PM
Candlecaster. Clearly, it was hidden by a Candlecaster.

Actually the wand triggers an SLA rather than a spell, so it's a candle of invocation.

ElenionAncalima
2014-02-04, 03:45 PM
Sounds like you could spice up a goblin chef encounter by adding a victim (or multiple victims) roasting over a fire, still breathing but who will surely die without immediate medical attention (extinquishing the flames within a few rounds should also allow the victim a chance to stabilize, and applying healing magic would buy some time, as fire only does ~1d6 per round).


The possibilities are endless with crazy goblin chefs!