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Kislath
2014-02-01, 03:57 PM
Payload Carrying Magic Missile

This Sixth level spell creates only one magic missile, but it carries within it another spell, Fifth level or less, which is released on the target.

Range? Line of sight.

Use? To vastly extend the range of another spell which couldn't possibly reach a target as far away as a magic missile can reach, and to hit it unerringly.

"See yon villain, yea, soooo far away? I'm fireballing him"

"Are you nuts, Bob? No Fireball can reach him from here"

"A-HA! MINE CAN!"

Ninja_Grand
2014-02-01, 04:00 PM
Line of sight? That seems a bit to much. Perhaps long (100 ft-ish)

Kislath
2014-02-01, 04:30 PM
Well, it's still a magic missile.

Waitaminute.... did they lower the range on Magic Missile? It used to be line of sight, but I'm not familiar with the latest editions.

AugustNights
2014-02-02, 04:14 PM
3.5 has it at Close (25ft+5/2 Levels) if I'm not mistaken.
It's Medium (100ft + 10/Level)

Kislath
2014-02-02, 04:45 PM
Oh, okay.

You know what? So what? Magic Missile is 1st level, and this is 6th. It's range is much better.

Zaydos
2014-02-02, 04:55 PM
Can it carry touch spells? Can it carry ray spells? Do you still need to make attack rolls if it carries a touch or ray spell?

Kislath
2014-02-03, 03:16 PM
Ah, well, obviously it can't carry some sorts of spells, like ray spells. Touch spells, though, are exactly one of the things this missile was designed for carrying.
Touch spells, area of effect spells... these are it's milieu.
Fireball-- yes
Lightning bolt? no!

Attack rolls? No. If a magic missile can automatically hit it, then the spell effect hits as well.

Naturally, it would be up to the DM to decide what spells can be carried.

Zaydos
2014-02-03, 03:23 PM
You're going to have to put more work into it, then, as both lightning bolt and fireball are area of effect spells by the rules, and if you use it for a touch spell do you have to make an attack roll?

As a DM I'd look at the current definitions of ones that can be carried, go that's kind of erratic (touch spells and AoEs that originate away from you but not area of effect spells which originate from your square or ranged touch spells) and go :smallconfused:

As a player I'd just end looking at the examples so far and then going over all the spells I have individually with the DM because the current one is so vague.

You'd probably do best to make a full write up listing what the criteria for a spell it can effect is, and whether you still need to make attack rolls, and I'd probably advice toning the level that can be carried down regardless because making a touch spell infinite range is better than you think (while making Fireball infinite is close to pointless).

Monk of reason
2014-02-04, 08:51 PM
Payload Carrying Magic Missile

This Sixth level spell creates only one magic missile, but it carries within it another spell, Fifth level or less, which is released on the target.

Range? Line of sight.

Use? To vastly extend the range of another spell which couldn't possibly reach a target as far away as a magic missile can reach, and to hit it unerringly.

"See yon villain, yea, soooo far away? I'm fireballing him"

"Are you nuts, Bob? No Fireball can reach him from here"

"A-HA! MINE CAN!"

Well mage hand is already a spell that can extend the range of touch attacks. any close range spells are usually pretty easy to hit. And then there is the enlarge spell as a metamagic feat.

The biggest advantage of this kind of spell would be the 100% sucsess rate against most things. Auto fireball? with no reflex? Auto shocking grasp? or dare I say it...auto enervation? That seems broken with a few spells so it would only make it fair if you had to burn 2 spell slots. This one and the spell that caught a piggy back.

Quiddle
2014-02-05, 12:15 AM
This sounds more like a metamagic to me.

Vadskye
2014-02-05, 01:55 AM
You're going to have to put more work into it, then, as both lightning bolt and fireball are area of effect spells by the rules

The cleanest way to do this might be to say something like this:

"If the spell is an area of effect spell, the target of the missile is treated as the point of origin. If the spell has a direction, such as a line or cone, it points away from you."

That would allow Lightning Bolt without ambiguity on how it works, but that would be impractical since you couldn't choose the direction. Usually you'd see Fireball instead. If that is too much, you'll have to get more detailed. "...Spells which have a particular direction, such as a line or cone, cannot be used with payload carrying missile." would also do well.

Zweisteine
2014-02-05, 01:20 PM
Well mage hand is already a spell that can extend the range of touch attacks. any close range spells are usually pretty easy to hit. And then there is the enlarge spell as a metamagic feat.

Mage Hand cannot deliver touch attacks. Another spell, Spectral Hand, exists for that purpose.

And the metamagic feat Reach Spell extends a touch spell to thirty feet at +1 spell level.


On topic, this spell seems extremely powerful. Disintegrate anyone you can see? I'm sure there's at least one spell that would be absurdly powerful if it didn't require an attack roll.

And would the missile be affected by SR seperately from the carried spell?

Kislath
2014-02-05, 04:54 PM
I don't know, okay? It just struck me as a nifty new way to deliver spells at a longer range and look good while doing it. A spectral hand floating around touching things is okay, I guess, but how much cooler is launching your own little mini-missle?
The rest is just details.

I like Vadskye's way of saying that directional spells can't work with it, and I don't see why it shouldn't take two spell slots to cast and a two-round casting time, one to build the missile, and one to laod it with another spell and launch it.
Area of effect spells should of course be centered on the target, aka, point of impact.

I suppose that, like a magic missile, it could only be used against living targets. No using a passwall or rock to mud type spell on an area from long range.

oniyasha
2014-02-05, 07:23 PM
I Have to say I like this Idea. yes there are spells that can be used to make this idea broken. but then again with the right knowledge anything can be twisted to be broken as hell. so I say to you fine thinker of A "fun new spell" good job!! take the ideas that where given here and come back with a revised edition. (so I can use it) :smallbiggrin: Also my thought is maybe cut the level of the stored spell to something lower like level 3. anyway that's just a theory a game DND theory