3.5 How to be good at melee and ranged combat?

[Swaoeaeieu]

Hi all!

My new character is getting the demon bloodline (DM asked me to partake in a plothook). The bloodline gives me Power attack and +1 strength in the early levels so i thought i could use it to boost my melee capabilities. But i also wanted to make a great crossbow user. Can you help me with some ideas to make my character usefull in close combat as wel as ranged?

I was thinking of getting feats for the crossbow like weapon focus and stuff like that. and put aptitude on the melee weapon. But what feats intended for ranged weapons can also be used by aptitude on a melee weapon?

I assume fighter will be the right class here to profide the needed feats.
Do you guys have any advise?

[Falcon X]

I read a Ranger handbook somewhere, might have been Pathfinder, that suggested doing a Ranger and taking the Archery path for archery feats, and using your Bonus Feats for Melee.

My recommendation is Warblade.
Warblade gives you so many maneuvers that can take the place of feats. If you focused your feats on Archery, you could use your maneuvers to boost Melee.

Even Better: Fighter 2/Warblade 18, so you can get extra feats!

[Urpriest]

In Pathfinder, you can kind of switch back and forth. 3.5, though, is a game that heavily rewards specialization. If you build a ranged character you'll be ok at melee since you're getting Power Attack for free, but the reverse won't work.

[nedz]

Are you going for the Minor, Intermediate or Major bloodlines ?

[Swaoeaeieu]

My recommendation is Warblade.
Warblade gives you so many maneuvers that can take the place of feats. If you focused your feats on Archery, you could use your maneuvers to boost Melee.

Even Better: Fighter 2/Warblade 18, so you can get extra feats!

The group i am joining is quite low op. So i was asked to keep ToB to a minumum (or not at all)


Are you going for the Minor, Intermediate or Major bloodlines ?
Major bloodline.
On a related note: do the bloodline levels count toward the progression of an item familiar?

[HunterOfJello]

Bloodstorm Blade will likely be your best bet.

[Firechanter]

If ToB is out, I second the Switch Hitter Ranger.
Str as your primary stat, moderate (14ish) Dex.
Go Archery Route with Ranger, ignore prereqs.
For 3.5, get Combat Reflexes and a Reach weapon. Complement with other melee feats. Maybe even Schock Trooper.

Ofc you wont be as effective in either field as a dedicated specialist, but for a low op group you should be fine.

Much easier to pull off in PF than in 3.5 because most PF feats don't make much of a difference anyway.

[nedz]

The group i am joining is quite low op. So i was asked to keep ToB to a minumum (or not at all)


Major bloodline.
On a related note: do the bloodline levels count toward the progression of an item familiar?
Item familiars are not Low OP.
Bloodline levels are really quite strange.

I third the switch hitting Ranger.

For Melee you either want Power Attack, Shock Trooper with a big weapon for lots of damage (though this might be too strong for your group) or Combat Reflexes + Improved Trip with a Guisarme.

Out of Combat you have lots of Wilderness and Stealth skills.

This assumes that it's not an urban game you are playing in ?
Ranger can do that too, but it's a bit more work.

[Nihilarian]

The crossbow is not a good fit with a high strength character. Bows don't need to be reloaded and get strength to damage.

What your DM wants and what you want aren't going to play nice together.

I'd suggest you talk to the DM and ask for a custom-made demon bloodline that will help you in using crossbows. There are lots of demons out there, after all. Like, for example, the Arrow Demon (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Arrow_demon).

[EugeneVoid]

Bloodstorm Blade will likely be your best bet.

+1 Bloodstorm Blade
How long range are talking?
Bloodstorm blade lets you be melee while ranged.

[Urpriest]

If you're in a low-OP group, you shouldn't be using bloodline levels. Low-op groups don't even know how bloodline levels work, they certainly can't be expected to handle them in a balanced fashion.

[Swaoeaeieu]

I am afraid i don't know what a switch hitting ranger is. can anyone give a quick summary?



If you're in a low-OP group, you shouldn't be using bloodline levels. Low-op groups don't even know how bloodline levels work, they certainly can't be expected to handle them in a balanced fashion.

DM:'how would you like it if you got to play with a bloodline?'
Me: 'cool, let's do it.'

I think me and the DM have a clear picture of it, and it gives me the option to try something new. so why not?

[Red Fel]

I can appreciate wanting to keep ToB down to a minimum. Clearly, if your DM thinks melee having nice things is op, he's unfamiliar with the material.

Nonetheless, I suggest a simple build. Base race Elf (any, but I recommend Snow Elf from Frostburn), Warblade 10/ Eternal Blade 10. It's a simple, clean build.

The nice thing about Warblade is that you can adjust your Weapon Focus and similar feats, in a pinch, between weapons; one day you can have a Longsword focus, and the next, Crossbows. The other nice thing about ToB is that it lets you function effectively either in melee or at range; you can focus your feats on ranged combat and still use maneuvers in melee, for example. And the last nice thing is that, thanks to Eternal Blade, you can rain a shower of arrow-based death upon your enemies, decimating them in vast numbers, or wade into battle and do the same thing with your sword... Sorry. Yeah. EB is pretty good about going both ways, if you know what I mean.

[Rhaegar14]

I am afraid i don't know what a switch hitting ranger is. can anyone give a quick summary?

The switch hitter Ranger relies on the fact that Rangers don't actually have to meet the prerequisites for their combat style feats. So you create a Ranger with high Strength and 14 Dexterity and choose the archery style, and between that 14 Dexterity and his combat style feats he can take any archery feat he could possibly want while pumping his Strength for extra damage with his bow. Then you run around with a two-handed, melee weapon in addition to the bow because any character with high Strength and Power Attack is reasonably competent with a two-hander.

Crossbows are terrible for a number of reasons. Unless you REALLY like the idea of using a crossbow from a fluff standpoint I would go with a composite longbow.

If you just want to be able to switch between melee and ranged attacks at a whim, I second the suggestion of Bloodstorm Blade.

[Swaoeaeieu]

Is there a way to get dex to melee hit or dmg? I know of weapon finesse, but that does not work on the bigger, heavy hitter weapons. If there is a way it would make ranged and melee less multiple atributes dependant.

[Urpriest]

I think me and the DM have a clear picture of it, and it gives me the option to try something new. so why not?

You're sure of that? Different people reading the Bloodline rules tend to have completely different interpretations. I'd make absolutely sure that you know how the DM thinks Bloodlines work before pursuing them.

[Red Fel]

Is there a way to get dex to melee hit or dmg? I know of weapon finesse, but that does not work on the bigger, heavy hitter weapons. If there is a way it would make ranged and melee less multiple atributes dependant.

Behold your new friend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732). Check the spoiler box labeled "Dexterity" - it's the second one in the thread.

[Urpriest]

Behold your new friend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732). Check the spoiler box labeled "Dexterity" - it's the second one in the thread.

Note also that there are a few Exotic two-handed weapons that can still be used with Weapon Finesse, like Spiked Chains.

[Red Fel]

Note also that there are a few Exotic two-handed weapons that can still be used with Weapon Finesse, like Spiked Chains.

And Elven Courtblade, which is Finessable despite being two-handed, and can be treated as a Greatsword for feat purposes.

[nedz]

As others have said 14 Str is all you need.
+2/+3 with a two handed weapon, and the standard +4 buff makes that +4/+6.
More strength is always good, but 14 is the optimal compromise.

[Swaoeaeieu]

And how can an aptitude weapon help here?
does weapon finesse work on a aptitude greatsword?
the ranged feats dead eye and crossbow sniper, can they be used with a melee aptitude weapon? I know it sounds weird but i have seen lightning mace build with crossbows, so why not the other way around?

[Zweisteine]

Heh. The Tome of Battle has a feather lets you put dexterity to damage. It's the shadow hand feat...