I...will not...DIE!

[Gan The Grey]

I'm about to begin a fairly unique dungeon crawl campaign inspired by a recent thread, titled "D&D the Way It Was Meant to be Played". My group and I will be exploring a dungeon randomly generated by rolling against the charts found in the DMG. It's sort of a 'collaborative world-building dungeon delve', in which our characters will begin their careers around level 4 and hopefully finish in the high teens.

So, that leaves me in need of a pretty decent character, because our restrictions are fairly limiting. Things I will have to deal with:

Randomly generated loot. Can't depend on specific loot in the least. Luckily, I've convinced them to let us use the weapon group feats.

A wide range of encounter levels. One of the charts in the DMG discusses what percentage of encounters will be above, below, and equal to the average character level, and we plan on using that to generate the CR for each encounter. It is very likely that we'll run into some very scary encounters.

No towns. We are limiting our travels to the camp outside the dungeon and the dungeon itself. No magic mart. No resupplying. Just the things we take with us and the things we can make for ourselves.

That being said, the rules are meant to make things challenging, so I don't want to break the challenge through over-optimization. However, I'd like someone that can contribute to the group's survival, while being fairly difficult to murder himself. I'd like to build a melee face-beater that just...won't...die. I have access to just about everything except settings books, Incarnum, Tome of Battle, Psionics, and Dungeonscape (edit: Man, I thought I had a damn good collection going on 'til ya'll started talking). Any suggestions for a build from 4 up through 20?

EDIT - FYI, I'd rather shoot for fun, interesting, and quirky than flat-out powerful. I definitely don't want to overshadow my group. I'm thinking tier 3 or 4. Dipping not required, but I've got no problem.

[Lightlawbliss]

by "the one with the swordsage" do you mean tome of battle (ToB)? If so, why?

someone in your party should likely have a method of turning fights into food.

if it really is T0B that you don't have (poor you), your best bet is likely cleric.

[Gan The Grey]

Yeah, Tome of Battle. Don't have it.

Turning fights into food? The plan was to use some (or most) of the group's initial wealth to get some hirelings to watch over the camp - possibly with access to the proper crafting skills and feats - and to purchase large amounts of rations and such to prepare for the long months ahead. It's a challenge of intelligent character build, resource manager, general ingenuity, and luck. I don't want overdo it on the optimization and make the whole challenge a cakewalk. As for turning fights into food, if you look at the random encounter charts in the DMG for dungeon delving, there aren't that many monsters on there that I'd want to eat.

EDIT - Oh yeah, I should mention that I'd like a generally 'fun' build most of all. Straight cleric is powerful...but if I can play an interesting, fun, quirky build instead, I'd choose that.

[Lightlawbliss]

Yeah, Tome of Battle. Don't have it.

if it is allowed, I can direct you to how to get it online


Turning fights into food? The plan was to use some (or most) of the group's initial wealth to get some hirelings to watch over the camp - possibly with access to the proper crafting skills and feats - and to purchase large amounts of rations and such to prepare for the long months ahead. It's a challenge of intelligent character build, resource manager, general ingenuity, and luck. I don't want overdo it on the optimization and make the whole challenge a cakewalk. As for turning fights into food, if you look at the random encounter charts in the DMG for dungeon delving, there aren't that many monsters on there that I'd want to eat. ...

ok, If I were you guys, I would make sure one of those hirelings knows how to process something like a dear walking into camp and turn it into food. Also, a person gets a whole lot less picky when they are hungry and they don't have many choices. Orc is just as filling as beef when you don't pay attention to the fact it is orc or don't care. Mystery meat came to be for a reason.

[137beth]

I'd take a look at the factotum (dungeonscape). It has nice endurance, which is important in an endless dungeon, and is useful for the kind of stuff you encounter in a dungeon.

The abilities are (IMO) fun to use...
if you are looking for a non-ToB melee tier 3 class, this is probably your best bet.

If you can get access to ToB, I'd suggest a crusader-based build for the survivability.

[Juntao112]

if it is allowed, I can direct you to how to get it online.

You mean on website like Amazon, right?

[Gan The Grey]

You mean on website like Amazon, right?

Hah. QFT.

Nah on Tome of Battle. I know a lot of my group aren't interested, for their own reasons, and I know they like to make beatstick types, so I definitely don't want to outshine them. Let's just...not go down this road please.


I'd take a look at the factotum (dungeonscape). It has nice endurance, which is important in an endless dungeon, and is useful for the kind of stuff you encounter in a dungeon.

The abilities are (IMO) fun to use...
if you are looking for a non-ToB melee tier 3 class, this is probably your best bet.

Forgot about that book. Don't have it either. Heard good things about the Factotum, too. Too bad. Will update the OP to reflect this.

[Psyren]

JaronK (IIRC) runs campaigns like this all the time, i.e. everything randomly generated using the book tables. I suggest asking him for advice.

No Incarnum/Psionics/ToB will limit your melee options considerably though.


if it is allowed, I can direct you to how to get it online

It's not. I advise you don't go there.

[Maginomicon]

Well, if your primary goal is to not die... play a quesar. They literally cannot die. They're constructs (but not warforged) that use a monster class and thus can be played from level 1. They have fast healing so long as they're in sunlight or an effect similar to sunlight (such as the daylight spell). If they drop to 0 HP, instead of being destroyed like a normal construct, bringing the corpse into the light (as above) causes them to heal and revive.

In other words, it's the perfect beat-stick.

[137beth]

You mean on website like Amazon, right?

I'd suggest downloading the playtest for Dreamscarred Press' Path of War, which is a pathfinderization of ToB (but can really easily be backported). The playtest document is free, and there is nothing shady or illegal about it.

Except, of course, that the OP's group apparently doesn't want to use ToB, so availability isn't really the issue:smalltongue:

[Phelix-Mu]

Hmm. Well, maybe some kind of ACF'd Barbarian? I'm not clear exactly what kind of beatsticks you don't want to be stealing thunder from. Barbarian has some cool variants, from Whirling Frenzy, to Spirit Lion Totem, and so forth.

Building into Frenzied Berserker can be quite powerful, but may outdo other damage-dealers unless you are careful (the two-handing Power Attack is quite silly down that route). Also, they are actually unkillable while in Deathless Frenzy, and tend to pack a crazy ton of HP. There are solutions to the drawbacks, and the role play can be classic bloodthirsty maniac to dead-serious professional with a tendency to let loose in combat. I've had good fun with the flavor among npcs.

Final suggestion is for more of a crazy monk option. Monks are actually quite decent at avoiding damage. Their downfall is in dealing it. So, there are some solutions to this, but the only ones generally used that aren't ruled out are cleric/monk/Sacred Fist and wizard/kung-fu genius monk/Enlightened Fist. By comboing the monk levels with the ACFs, you can avoid a lot of the suck, and the spells give you the utility you need when you aren't beating things senseless. Some of the ACFs most commonly used won't be available based on your book selection, but there may still be enough.

[Eldest]

Magic Item Compendium will get you (amoung other, far cooler things) a pouch of infinite rations for something like 360 GP. Food problem solved. Most of the psionic stuff is online, at this site (http://www.d20srd.org/). It's even legal!

[Vhaidara]

The knight class in ph2 has "temporary immunity to death" as a capstone. If you're interested.

[Gnome Alone]

The knight class in ph2 has "temporary immunity to death" as a capstone. If you're interested.

Somehow I doubt they're gonna do a gritty, DMG-says-to-kill-you-guys dungeon crawl that starts on or near Level 20.

That capstone is good but it's like 8-10 levels too late. Level 20 should be, I dunno, ability to conceal extramarital affairs from King Arthur or something.

[Irk]

Incarnate construct warforged + troll Blooded + mantle of Flame + Saint template makes you immune to damage, so you could do that.

TMS into a shadowsteel golem with a Skin of Proteus gives you immunity to many spells, but if you're going that route, just take a level of the Pugilist fighter variant to also make you immune to damage.

EDIT
Level 20 should be, I dunno, ability to conceal extramarital affairs from King Arthur or something.
can I sig this?

[Cicciograna]

EDIT: I choose to err on the side of caution, and tell you that on the WotC site there are two book excerpts from ToB, one detailing the Warblade with all the class features, and the other one listing maneuver cards with fluff and crunch for every maneuver/stance from all the disciplines. Uncle Google can help you to find these two pieces of information.

[Sian]

Saint template

Needs level 6 and 3(!) exalted feats and good background story to be pick-able, so thats probably a no go

[Hangwind]

Become a Binder. You not only get to choose what you want to do, it is also very friendly to loot-less characters. Also, Knight of the sacred seal is awesome if you have one role you want to play.

[Valwyn]

Get Diehard (Boar Totem Barbarian 1, Knight 5, Frenzied Berserker 1, Ordained Champion 2, Anointed Knight 3) and combine it with Healing Devotion (Complete Champion). Works better if you have Turning.

I think a paladin with the Divine Spirit ACF can also tank pretty well, but it's from Dungeonscape.