Monster Effigy Were-Monster Effigy

[unseenmage]

I've moved my discussion of this concept to the Homebrew forum where I think it's more appropriate.

I'm playing in a highly modified campaign setting. Faerun +Conand20 +Gestalt, with the 'Constructs as Magic Items' rules interpretation, PF 'CR pricing/creation' rules optional, and the requirement to research any unlisted Construct or Magic Item just like a Wizard researches a Custom Spell where CL replaces SL. 3rd party stuff is allowed too with permission.
Oh, and my Artificer/Techsmith can only make Effigies of creatures he's encountered in the world. (And sadly Wish/Gate/Miracle/Genesis are off limits. :smallfrown:)

Recently I struck on the idea of using the Monstrous Lycanthrope template from Advanced Bestiary to build Construct lycanthropes. The Effigy (CAr) and Elder Eidolon (LoM) templates let me make just about anything into a Construct for later Monstrous Lycanthropization. And the Sacred Guardian (DL:BoK) template lets me make the "human" half or even the final creature intelligent. Edit: I'm also employing the sidebar which allows for the template to be applied to non-living creatures.

Because this combination of templates is ridiculously versatile I've limited myself to only humanoid forms for the "human" or front end of the werecreature and only nonhumanoids for the "wolf" or back end.
And of course only creatures which can be made into Constructs before the Monstrous Lycanthrope template is applied because if Effigy is applied afterward they lose their lycanthrope abilities.

My first hurdle is figuring out which creatures are too OP to bother building. The two best creatures to combine that I have access to right now are the Phaerim Giant (MC:MoF) and the Ibrandlin dragon (MC:MoF). It's no surprise that these two creatures are both from a 3.0 source.

Presented below are some of the better combinations I have access to. I'll be adding statblocks for them as time goes on.
I'm also DMing a game based on a merchant character and a mercenary character exploring the Plane of Mirrors (MotP) and I intend to use some Monstrous Lycanthrope or another on them while they're there.

Feel free to present other cool Monster Were-Monsters as you see fit. Just try to keep them Humanoid Were-Nonhumanoid if possible.

[unseenmage]

I need to know if this Construct is undercosted or OP. And if so what price should it have? What level should it be available at?
An 18 HD, CR 10, Str 53 Construct for 55,000gp? Potentially it's min CL would also be 18 if that carries over from its Effigy roots. (I would rule that it does.)

Phaerlin Giant Effigy Were-Ibrandlin dragon Effigy (MC:MoF, CAr, AdvB, PF (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/magic/buildingAndModifyingConstructs.html))
Phaerlin Giant Effigy Were-Ibrandlin dragon Effigy, Normal Form
Huge Construct
HD 18d10+40 (139)
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares)
Init: -2
AC 20 (-2 size, -2 Dex, +14 Natural); touch 6; flat-footed 22)
BAB +13; Grp +28
Attack Claw +18 melee (2d4+7)
Full-Attack 2 Claws +18 melee (2d4+7), Bite +13 melee 1d8+3
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks --
Special Qualities DR 10/silver, Alternate Form (Su), Lycanthropic Empathy (Ex)
Saves Fort +6 Ref +4 Will +6
Abilities Str 25 (+7), Dex 7 (-2), Con -- (--), Int -- (--), Wis 11 (+0), Cha 1 (-5)
Skills --
Feats Blind-Fight, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack
Environment Any
Organization None
Challenge Rating 10
Treasure None
Alignment Always Neutral
Advancement None
Level Adjustment --

Phaerlin Giant Effigy Were-Ibrandlin dragon Effigy, Hybrid Form
Gargantuan Construct
HD 18d10+40 (139)
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares), Climb 10 ft. (2 squares)
Init: -3
AC 20 (-2 size, -3 Dex, +15 Natural); touch 5; flat-footed 23)
BAB +13; Grp +46
Attack Bite +30 melee (4d6+21)
Full-Attack Bite +30 melee (4d6+21), 4 Claws +25 melee (2d8+10)
Space 20 ft.; Reach 20 ft.
Special Attacks Curse of Lycanthropy (Su)
Special Qualities DR 10/silver, Alternate Form (Su), Lycanthropic Empathy (Ex)
Saves Fort +6 Ref +3 Will +6
Abilities Str 53 (+21), Dex 5 (-3), Con -- (--), Int -- (--), Wis 11 (+0), Cha 1 (-5)
Skills --
Feats Blind-fight, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack
Environment Any
Organization None
Challenge Rating 10
Treasure None
Alignment Always Neutral
Advancement None
Level Adjustment --

Phaerlin Giant Effigy Were-Ibrandlin dragon Effigy, Monster Form
Gargantuan Construct
HD 18d10+40 (139)
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares), Climb 20 ft. (4 squares)
Init: -3
AC 20 (-2 size, -3 Dex, +15 Natural); touch 5; flat-footed 23)
BAB +13; Grp +46
Attack Bite +30 melee (4d6+21)
Full-Attack Bite +30 melee (4d6+21), 4 Claws +25 melee (2d8+10)
Space 20 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks Curse of Lycanthropy (Su), Pin (Ex)
Special Qualities DR 10/silver, Alternate Form (Su), Lycanthropic Empathy (Ex)
Saves Fort +6 Ref +3 Will +6
Abilities Str 53 (+21), Dex 5 (-3), Con -- (--), Int -- (--), Wis 11 (+0), Cha 1 (-5)
Skills --
Feats Blind-fight, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack
Environment Any
Organization None
Challenge Rating 10
Treasure None
Alignment Always Neutral
Advancement None
Level Adjustment --

Curse of Lycanthropy (Su): Any humanoid, monstrous
humanoid, giant, or creature with a generally humanoid
form (two arms, two legs, and a head) that is hit by the
bite attack of a natural monstrous lycanthrope in animal
or hybrid form must succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save
or contract lycanthropy. If the victim is not within one
size category of the monstrous lycanthrope’s monster form
(for example, a hill giant bitten by a weresprite), the victim
cannot contract lycanthropy from that creature. Affl icted
monstrous lycanthropes cannot pass on the curse of
lycanthropy.

Pin (Ex): An ibrandlin can Jump and land on opponents as a
standard action, using its whole body to attack. A pin attack is effective
only agains1 Medium-size or smaller opponents. An ibrandlin
can pin as many creatures as will fir under its body (a 10-ft.-by-30-ft.
area). Creatures in the affected area must roll successful Reflex
saves (DC 21) or be pinned under 1he ibrandlin. The ibrandlin can
choose whether or not to deal damage. Creatures that lie still are
simply pinned (treat as a grapple attack), while those that move or
fight take 4d6 points of damage per round until they escape.

Construction: MP: 55,000gp which includes 5,000gp for construction of the body.


Here's another that was suggested in the other thread; an expansion of the legend of That Damn Crab.

Dragonkin Effigy Were-Monstrous Crab Effigy (MC:MoF, CAr, AdvB, web (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a), PF (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/magic/buildingAndModifyingConstructs.html))

Dragonkin Effigy Were-Monstrous Crab Effigy, Normal Form
Large Construct
HD 14d10+30 (107)
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 40 ft. (good) (8 squares)
Init: +0
AC 20 (–1 size, +11 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 20
BAB +10/+5; Grp +20
Attack Foreclaw +23 melee (1d6+6) or longspear +23/+18 melee (1d10+7)
Full-Attack 2 foreclaws +23 melee (1d6+6) or longspear +23/+18 melee (1d10+7)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft. (20 ft. with longspear)
Special Attacks Rake (Ex) 1d6+3
Special Qualities Alternate Form (Su), Lycanthropic Empathy (Ex)
Saves Fort +4 Ref +4 Will +4
Abilities Str 23 (+6), Dex 10 (+0), Con -- (--), Int -- (--), Wis11 (+0), Cha 1 (-5)
Skills
Feats Flyby Attack
Environment Any
Organization None
Challenge Rating 6
Treasure None
Alignment Always Neutral
Advancement None
Level Adjustment --

Dragonkin Effigy Were-Monstrous Crab Elder Effigy, Hybrid Form
Large Construct
HD 14d10+30 (107)
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 40 ft. (good) (8 squares), swim 15 ft. (3 squares)
Init: +2
AC 23 (+2 Dex, –1 size, +12 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 21
BAB +10/+5; Grp +28
Attack Foreclaw +31 melee (1d6+14) or longspear +31/+26 melee (1d10+11)
Full-Attack 2 foreclaws +31 melee (1d6+14), bite +26 melee (1d6+14) or longspear +31/+26 melee (1d10+11)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft. (20 ft. with longspear)
Special Attacks Rake (Ex) 1d6+7
Special Qualities Alternate Form (Su), Lycanthropic Empathy (Ex), DR 10/silver
Saves Fort +4 Ref +4 Will +4
Abilities Str 39 (+14), Dex 14 (+2), Con -- (--), Int -- (--), Wis11 (+0), Cha 1 (-5)
Skills --
Feats Flyby Attack
Environment Any
Organization None
Challenge Rating 6
Treasure None
Alignment Always Neutral
Advancement None
Level Adjustment --

Dragonkin Effigy Were-Monstrous Crab Effigy, Monster Form
Large Construct
HD 14d10+30 (107)
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares), swim 30 ft. (6 squares)
Init: +2
AC 23 (+2 Dex, –1 size, +12 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 21
BAB +10/+5; Grp +28
Attack Claw +23 melee (1d8+14)
Full-Attack 2 claws +23 melee (1d8+14), bite +26 melee (1d6+14)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks Constrict 1d8+14, Improved Grab, Powerful Claws
Special Qualities Amphibious (Ex), Alternate Form (Su), Lycanthropic Empathy (Ex), DR 10/silver
Saves Fort +4 Ref +4 Will +4
Abilities Str 39 (+14), Dex 14 (+2), Con -- (--), Int -- (--), Wis11 (+0), Cha 1 (-5)
Skills --
Feats Flyby Attack
Environment Any
Organization None
Challenge Rating 6
Treasure None
Alignment Always Neutral
Advancement None
Level Adjustment --

Powerful Claws (Ex): A monstrous crab always applies 1.5 times its Strength modifier to damage inflicted with its claws. Additionally, it gains a +4 racial bonus on grapple checks.

[Drachasor]

That's a monstrous amount of damage. It's definitely better than CR 10, especially since it is Gargantuan so it has a reach of 20 ft.

It's tricky to peg precisely, since it has low hit points, AC, and movement. However, the damage and unbeatable grapple means that it is going to pretty much kill anyone that gets close if it gets a chance to act.

Hmm, 35 average damage without a full attack, 111 if it gets a full attack. It's pretty much guaranteed to hit as well. So it does damage like something in the CR 17-23 range, imho. But its hit points and defense are more like a CR 10.

So I think it is more like a CR 13 to CR15 creature at first glance. I'd need to look at more books for comparison.

[unseenmage]

That's a monstrous amount of damage. It's definitely better than CR 10, especially since it is Gargantuan so it has a reach of 20 ft.

It's tricky to peg precisely, since it has low hit points, AC, and movement. However, the damage and unbeatable grapple means that it is going to pretty much kill anyone that gets close if it gets a chance to act.

Hmm, 35 average damage without a full attack, 111 if it gets a full attack. It's pretty much guaranteed to hit as well. So it does damage like something in the CR 17-23 range, imho. But its hit points and defense are more like a CR 10.

So I think it is more like a CR 13 to CR15 creature at first glance. I'd need to look at more books for comparison.

I appreciate the analysis.
I Googled something about CRs earlier today and saw a enworld(?) thread about how these two creatures were the worst offenders in their book for low CR.

Thing is, these were rolled randomly off an encounter chart in the Underdark book. They were just the best HD for CR creatures on my list so I combined them to see if they would be too much. So far it's looking like they are.

I'm glad I went ahead and statted the whole thing up though. I noticed the high Str mid process and it made me wonder if that CR was too low.

[Debihuman]

The stats for Monsters of Faerun were updated to 3.5 in a Web Enhancement on WotC's site. Here is the link: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040313a

Monstrous Lycanthrope is a Template that can only be applied to LIVING creatures. I assume you applied the Monstrous Lycanthrope template and then the Effigy template.

Also, creatures that contract lycanthropy have to be within 1 size category of the creature. This couldn't give lycanthropy to Medium PCs.

Debby

[unseenmage]

The stats for Monsters of Faerun were updated to 3.5 in a Web Enhancement on WotC's site. Here is the link: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040313a

Monstrous Lycanthrope is a Template that can only be applied to LIVING creatures. I assume you applied the Monstrous Lycanthrope template and then the Effigy template.

Also, creatures that contract lycanthropy have to be within 1 size category of the creature. This couldn't give lycanthropy to Medium PCs.

Debby

Thank you for the update, it's appreciated. I was definitely fighting the 3.0-ness whilst trying to stat this critter up.

There's a sidebar explicitly for the application of the template to non-living critters. My apologies, should have mentioned that I was using that.

The point of this particular critter is that a player can build it. That it cannot infect medium and smaller creatures is probably a good thing.