Ivanhoe
2014-02-02, 07:46 AM
Hi everyone!
The recent discussions on Tippyverse got me thinking that there may be a potential for magic traps as possible buffs.
Could, say, a rogue with enough cash do the following:
Construct a small trap that triggers on the alarm condtions with a resilient sphere.
With the help of a spellcaster, appears to cast 4x7x50gp + 4x7x4XP (x5 for gp cost) = 1960 gp. The resetting version is 10 times as expensive. (plus, you need the cost of the spell resilient sphere cast itself, another 7x4x10gp=280gp.)
Do we then have a rogue basically protected with resilient sphere when he has the trap on his body? Might be awkward with a group around, but the whole thing could also be used to buff him with, say, a divine power or cat's grace when someone is near (the latter being cheaper than the comparable DEX gloves).
But I guess there are problems in that traps cannot be carried around and even so the alarm triggers on 20ft radius tiny+ creatures approaching. This may also include the rogue himself. Or could the magic device trap also be triggered by something mechanical? (with a free action, say, like a quickdrawn dagger and the trap tied to the sheath/belt?)
Any thoughts?
Edit:
Well, in case this is really acceptable by RAW, here are some additional thoughts:
Resetting traps on body, say, triggered by touch (and the alarm effect can be set only to touch range) could mean free action (or at least move action) buffs. Possibly they could be triggered when a weapon is drawn - several buffs at once, as a free action! (say, on a 6th level rogue, simultaneously cat's grace, invisibility, protection from evil, haste and fly).
That would be a huge boost for characters, so much that regular permanent magic items would be replaced completely. Three exceptions: 1) either producing magic effects that the magic device traps emulating spells could not get (like e.g. a mirror of opposition), 2) a spell with a high-cost material component or 3) a very high-level spell effect that also has a long duration and could be emulated with the 1/day casting guidelines (the only example that comes to my mind in this case is mind blank which costs 92,000 with a resetting trap, and 43,200 per guidlines).
"Buff" resetting trap levels costs (as per DMG p. 75 or table in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#magicDeviceTrapCost))
Level 1 (e.g.: protetion from evil, shield): 500x1x1+40x5 (gp value for XP) x1x1 = 700 gp
Level 2 (e.g.: bull's strength, see invisibility): 500x3x2+200x3x2 = 4,200 gp
Level 3 (e.g. haste, heroism): 500x5x3+200x5x3 = 10,500 gp
Level 4 (e.g. polymorph, divine power): 500x7x4+200x7x4 = 19,600 gp
Level 5 (e.g. rightous might, overland flight): 500x9x5+200x9x5 = 31,500 gp
Level 6 (e.g. antilife shell, mage's lucubration- Tippy's classic): 500x11x6+200x11x6 = 45,200 gp
Level 7 (e.g. spell turning, greater arcane sight): 500x13x7+200x13x7 = 63,700 gp
Level 8 (e.g. mind blank, holy aura): 500x15x8+200x15x8 = 92,000 gp
Level 9 (e.g. time stop, foresight): 500x17x9+200x17x9 = 107,100
(note that 1) spells like shapechange have a focus needed when the spell comes into effect, it is unclear whether the x100 cost clause for material components would apply here as well and 2) that these are creation costs, not gp values, so all should be doubled with comparing with the comparable magic item prices below).
"Buff" magic items as per item creation guidelines (DMG p. 285; or in in the SRD here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#magicItemGoldPieceValues)(a ssumption: continuous item creating the relevant spell effect, with on average x2 cost for a min/lvl spell, or 4,000 gp multiplyer).
Level 1: 1x1x4,000 = 4,000
Level 2: 2x3x4,000= 24,000
Level 3: 3x5x4,000 = 60,000
Level 4: 4x7x4,000 = 112,000
Level 5: 5x9x4,000 = 180,000
Level 6: 6x11x4,000 = 264,000
Level 7: 7x13x4,000 = 364,000
Level 8: 8x15x4,000 = 480,000
Level 9: 9x17x4,000 = 612,000
So far, in the RAW (as per DMG p. 67-76), I perceive some hints that traps cannot be used as buffs in such a manner:
on p. 67, the first sentence on magic traps says: "Many spells can be used to create dangerous traps." and then makes no further mention of other types of traps (that produce benign effects).
on p. 74, on the design of magic traps, it is said: "When you [the DM] and the player have agreed on what spells and other elements the trap contains, you can the determine the cost of the raw materials for the trap and the CR of the trap." This basically is saying that PCs can only design traps with DM fiat, making them unsuitable for a RAW setting that excludes DM fiat.
finally, no mention is made of any traps able to be bought or sold. Only the creation costs are given. (a difference to magic items). So PCs cannot even buy traps failing that they cannot design them by thenmselves without DM fiat.
What do you think?
Are buff traps RAW or not? I would say no.
If they are, though, then the whole game would change since all characters would get much, much cheaper magic effects.
The recent discussions on Tippyverse got me thinking that there may be a potential for magic traps as possible buffs.
Could, say, a rogue with enough cash do the following:
Construct a small trap that triggers on the alarm condtions with a resilient sphere.
With the help of a spellcaster, appears to cast 4x7x50gp + 4x7x4XP (x5 for gp cost) = 1960 gp. The resetting version is 10 times as expensive. (plus, you need the cost of the spell resilient sphere cast itself, another 7x4x10gp=280gp.)
Do we then have a rogue basically protected with resilient sphere when he has the trap on his body? Might be awkward with a group around, but the whole thing could also be used to buff him with, say, a divine power or cat's grace when someone is near (the latter being cheaper than the comparable DEX gloves).
But I guess there are problems in that traps cannot be carried around and even so the alarm triggers on 20ft radius tiny+ creatures approaching. This may also include the rogue himself. Or could the magic device trap also be triggered by something mechanical? (with a free action, say, like a quickdrawn dagger and the trap tied to the sheath/belt?)
Any thoughts?
Edit:
Well, in case this is really acceptable by RAW, here are some additional thoughts:
Resetting traps on body, say, triggered by touch (and the alarm effect can be set only to touch range) could mean free action (or at least move action) buffs. Possibly they could be triggered when a weapon is drawn - several buffs at once, as a free action! (say, on a 6th level rogue, simultaneously cat's grace, invisibility, protection from evil, haste and fly).
That would be a huge boost for characters, so much that regular permanent magic items would be replaced completely. Three exceptions: 1) either producing magic effects that the magic device traps emulating spells could not get (like e.g. a mirror of opposition), 2) a spell with a high-cost material component or 3) a very high-level spell effect that also has a long duration and could be emulated with the 1/day casting guidelines (the only example that comes to my mind in this case is mind blank which costs 92,000 with a resetting trap, and 43,200 per guidlines).
"Buff" resetting trap levels costs (as per DMG p. 75 or table in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#magicDeviceTrapCost))
Level 1 (e.g.: protetion from evil, shield): 500x1x1+40x5 (gp value for XP) x1x1 = 700 gp
Level 2 (e.g.: bull's strength, see invisibility): 500x3x2+200x3x2 = 4,200 gp
Level 3 (e.g. haste, heroism): 500x5x3+200x5x3 = 10,500 gp
Level 4 (e.g. polymorph, divine power): 500x7x4+200x7x4 = 19,600 gp
Level 5 (e.g. rightous might, overland flight): 500x9x5+200x9x5 = 31,500 gp
Level 6 (e.g. antilife shell, mage's lucubration- Tippy's classic): 500x11x6+200x11x6 = 45,200 gp
Level 7 (e.g. spell turning, greater arcane sight): 500x13x7+200x13x7 = 63,700 gp
Level 8 (e.g. mind blank, holy aura): 500x15x8+200x15x8 = 92,000 gp
Level 9 (e.g. time stop, foresight): 500x17x9+200x17x9 = 107,100
(note that 1) spells like shapechange have a focus needed when the spell comes into effect, it is unclear whether the x100 cost clause for material components would apply here as well and 2) that these are creation costs, not gp values, so all should be doubled with comparing with the comparable magic item prices below).
"Buff" magic items as per item creation guidelines (DMG p. 285; or in in the SRD here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#magicItemGoldPieceValues)(a ssumption: continuous item creating the relevant spell effect, with on average x2 cost for a min/lvl spell, or 4,000 gp multiplyer).
Level 1: 1x1x4,000 = 4,000
Level 2: 2x3x4,000= 24,000
Level 3: 3x5x4,000 = 60,000
Level 4: 4x7x4,000 = 112,000
Level 5: 5x9x4,000 = 180,000
Level 6: 6x11x4,000 = 264,000
Level 7: 7x13x4,000 = 364,000
Level 8: 8x15x4,000 = 480,000
Level 9: 9x17x4,000 = 612,000
So far, in the RAW (as per DMG p. 67-76), I perceive some hints that traps cannot be used as buffs in such a manner:
on p. 67, the first sentence on magic traps says: "Many spells can be used to create dangerous traps." and then makes no further mention of other types of traps (that produce benign effects).
on p. 74, on the design of magic traps, it is said: "When you [the DM] and the player have agreed on what spells and other elements the trap contains, you can the determine the cost of the raw materials for the trap and the CR of the trap." This basically is saying that PCs can only design traps with DM fiat, making them unsuitable for a RAW setting that excludes DM fiat.
finally, no mention is made of any traps able to be bought or sold. Only the creation costs are given. (a difference to magic items). So PCs cannot even buy traps failing that they cannot design them by thenmselves without DM fiat.
What do you think?
Are buff traps RAW or not? I would say no.
If they are, though, then the whole game would change since all characters would get much, much cheaper magic effects.