Druid Barbarian

[Teapot Salty]

Hey guys, as you could probably gather from the title, I'm thinking of making a druid barbarian. I like the flavor and was wondering if you guys had any ideas.

[Amphetryon]

How much Druid, and how much Barbarian, do you want to use? Through what levels will you be playing the Character? What is your list of allowed sources?
:smallsmile:

[Gadora]

Hey guys, as you could probably gather from the title, I'm thinking of making a druid barbarian. I like the flavor and was wondering if you guys had any ideas.

Unearthed Arcana has some nice support (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger) for this concept.

You might possibly add the wild cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) feat to pick the 'animal companion' back up.

EDIT: What elements from the classes are you wanting?

[eggynack]

Unearthed Arcana has some nice support (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger) for this concept.

Yeah, that covers most of it. I can't see all that much synergy between the two classes otherwise. Also, if you want spontaneous summoning back, spontaneous summoner (CD, 85) has you reasonably covered feat-wise. I'd probably just run it as a druid, and maybe use shifter (RoE, 25) as the race, fluffing the shifter trait use as raging out. The shifter druid substitution levels (RoE, 126) also gets down a lot of that flavor, particularly beast spirit. It all fits together reasonably well.

[Teapot Salty]

How much Druid, and how much Barbarian, do you want to use? Through what levels will you be playing the Character? What is your list of allowed sources?
:smallsmile: Enough Druid For wildshape and decent spells, and the rest into barbarian. It will be a level 1 campaign.

[eggynack]

Enough Druid For wildshape and decent spells, and the rest into barbarian. It will be a level 1 campaign.
Seems a bit counter-productive. The best way to maximize your druidic fighting abilities is by being more druid. You'd be better off trying to capture barbarian flavor in another fashion, and it wouldn't be too hard to capture, cause druids already have some of that savagery if you want them to. The two methods that have been mentioned, druidic avenger and shifter, definitely work, and a third method could be taking levels of lion of talisid (BoED, 65). Definitely better than just popping barbarian levels onto a druid.

[Xuldarinar]

An important question is what are you hoping to gain from each? Im sure you are gonna get tired of hearing this, but Druid Avenger. If you insist on barbarian levels, throw them in but your casting and wild shape will suffer for it.

[Gemini476]

If you just want rage on your Druid, the Druidic Avenger is decent for that. I've heard good things about Fist of the Forest as well.

If you want wildshape on your Barbarian, Bear Warrior is pretty neat. Oh, and for casting you have Runescarred Berserker, I guess.

Druid 5 will get you Wildshaping into Medium forms (most of the big bruisers are in bigger categories), and "decent spells" for a druid is what, Druid 12ish? Or Druid 17, I guess.

You need to be more specific about what exactly that you are after.

[Teapot Salty]

Seems a bit counter-productive. The best way to maximize your druidic fighting abilities is by being more druid. You'd be better off trying to capture barbarian flavor in another fashion, and it wouldn't be too hard to capture, cause druids already have some of that savagery if you want them to. The two methods that have been mentioned, druidic avenger and shifter, definitely work, and a third method could be taking levels of lion of talisid (BoED, 65). Definitely better than just popping barbarian levels onto a druid. I think I might just do that.

[Teapot Salty]

If you just want rage on your Druid, the Druidic Avenger is decent for that. I've heard good things about Fist of the Forest as well.

If you want wildshape on your Barbarian, Bear Warrior is pretty neat. Oh, and for casting you have Runescarred Berserker, I guess.

Druid 5 will get you Wildshaping into Medium forms (most of the big bruisers are in bigger categories), and "decent spells" for a druid is what, Druid 12ish? Or Druid 17, I guess.

You need to be more specific about what exactly that you are after.
Problem is that I don't really know what I want, that's why I started the thread.

[Fax Celestis]

Try this mash up of variants: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58604

[eggynack]

I think I might just do that.
Cool. Which one? There were three separate builds listed in that post, each with separate optimization paths. I'm personally a fan of the shifter method. Lotta cool shifter stuff out there.

[chaos_redefined]

Complete Warrior has a prestige class about turning into a bear as part of your rage. Bear Warrior, iirc.

[Teapot Salty]

Cool. Which one? There were three separate builds listed in that post, each with separate optimization paths. I'm personally a fan of the shifter method. Lotta cool shifter stuff out there.
I think I'll do the avenger, it fits what I was going for more, and makes me a little more free with multiclassing. (Think I might do a Wizard)

[eggynack]

I think I'll do the avenger, it fits what I was going for more, and makes me a little more free with multiclassing. (Think I might do a Wizard)
Seems reasonable, at least the first part. Multiclassing is probably a bad idea. It's kinda the first rule of druids, that anything that pushes you away from being a druid to any degree is a bad thing. It's a rule that can very much be broken, if you know what you're doing, but it's tricky business. Even prestige classing is usually looked down on in connection to druids, though that's a problem I've been working on lately. It's notable that druidic avenger doesn't really make you much more free with multiclassing at all, because casting is everything.

Anyway, long story short, the class you're looking for is arcane hierophant (RotW, 108), which theurges together druid and wizard. The build should probably be something like druid 3/wizard 3/mystic theurge 2/arcane hierophant 10/mystic theurge 2. It's a thing that will make you competent at this druid/wizard thing, if not as competent as just a druid. Losing your animal companion may complicate things with that PrC though.

[jguy]

It depends on how you are coming into this. If you want to be a druid that rages, play a druidic avenger. If you want to play a Barbarian that has some spells to support himself, a barbarian with a few levels of druid isn't too bad. I played a barb3/druid3 one game and it went pretty well since I went into it as a front line fighter with a little more utility.

[Teapot Salty]

Seems reasonable, at least the first part. Multiclassing is probably a bad idea. It's kinda the first rule of druids, that anything that pushes you away from being a druid to any degree is a bad thing. It's a rule that can very much be broken, if you know what you're doing, but it's tricky business. Even prestige classing is usually looked down on in connection to druids, though that's a problem I've been working on lately. It's notable that druidic avenger doesn't really make you much more free with multiclassing at all, because casting is everything.

Anyway, long story short, the class you're looking for is arcane hierophant (RotW, 108), which theurges together druid and wizard. The build should probably be something like druid 3/wizard 3/mystic theurge 2/arcane hierophant 10/mystic theurge 2. It's a thing that will make you competent at this druid/wizard thing, if not as competent as just a druid. Losing your animal companion may complicate things with that PrC though.

Your probably right. The reason I felt it made me more free to multiclass is because before it was going to be druid/barbarian and once it beacame a single class I felt like I could go into another. And on the wizard point, I'm lucky to have a flexible dm to make that work.

[Slipperychicken]

You could just roleplay a CN angry savage Druid. Then get so angry that you turn into a bear which has thunder eye-beams.

[eggynack]

You could just roleplay a CN angry savage Druid. Then get so angry that you turn into a bear which has thunder eye-beams.
I think that may always be the best option, even when it has nothing to do with your intended character otherwise.

[Red Fel]

You could just roleplay a CN angry savage Druid. Then get so angry that you turn into a bear which has thunder eye-beams.

Pretty much this. As others have mentioned, a Wild Shaped Druid can smash face as effectively as, if not moreso than, a Barbarian. Given that "smash face" and "me no read" are basically a Barbarian's key class features, you're solidly on your way.

Frankly, though, I'd like to second the Shifter Druid. Take that into Moonspeaker, and you've got some fairly potent abilities on your side. There's a useful handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225294) if that's your thing. Your Shifting is like a Barb's rage, only with an accompanying cosmetic change; you still get Druid spells, as well as some really potent summons. It's everything you want tied up in a bow.

[Phelix-Mu]

I think much good advice has been given already, but let me plug a more barbarian-focused thing involving Wild Cohort and Runescarred Beserker. It will have some spells and run around tearing things apart with it's wolf friend (or whatever...at higher levels, I picture a tiger!).

Benefits are more smash-face and less caster feel. This might be nice if you want to multiclass into different caster feel, since a caster that multiclasses into a different caster is usually not terribly effective. Also, a DM might be amenable to revising the Runescarred Berserker list (I think it has its own list), to allow a more druidy feel.

Want more crazy: Add Nentyar Hunter. Difficult to get into, but gets a whole bunch of druid-themed spells in just a few levels. Ooh, I wonder if I could cram Abjurant Champion in here somewhere.

[eggynack]

One thing that's worth noting, in terms of shifting as it applies to druids, is that the natural weapon options don't necessarily stack all that well with wild shape. Gorehorn very much does not go with anything else you're trying to do, and longtooth gives you a natural weapon that you find on just about anything, and it's somewhat redundant as a result. Razorclaw is better than either, less common than longtooth and more connected to your natural abilities than gorehorn, but it too shows up on everything from bears to apes to fleshrakers. There's a good number of monsters that lack a claw attack too, and for them the ability could prove useful, but it all adds up to natural weapons from shifter traits being less useful than they sound. Shifter is still a great way to go, because shifter druids are sweet, but it's a problematic thing.

[RavynsLand]

Maybe you should just try Totem Rager?

[Ravens_cry]

Unearthed Arcana has some nice support (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger) for this concept.

It loses a heck of a lot, but it would be sick in combat in a mid op game with both wild shape AND rage AND spells boosting your stats. If I played 3.5, I'd like to play it like Beorn from The Hobbit.

[eggynack]

It loses a heck of a lot.
Yeah, it's definitely not the worst druid ACF, which is largely because of the large quantities of terrible druid ACF's, but it's pretty bad. Summoning is a super important thing, and the animal companion is also important at early levels.

[Urpriest]

In a pure Core-only environment, Druid 8/Barbarian 12 is not a bad build. But if you have lots of sources, then yeah, just do a Druid with barbaric flavor and you'll cover things fine.

[Ravens_cry]

Yeah, it's definitely not the worst druid ACF, which is largely because of the large quantities of terrible druid ACF's, but it's pretty bad. Summoning is a super important thing, and the animal companion is also important at early levels.
On the plus side, it's is nice for a new player who doesn't want things as complicated, or for a large party where summoned monsters and animal companions would just slow things down.

[Gotterdammerung]

. I can't see all that much synergy between the two classes otherwise.

While the unearthed arcana certainly made the concept more convenient to play, and druidic avenger is no doubt a superior alternative now over multiclassing druid/barbarian, I heartily disagree with your assessment.

Back before druidic avenger, i had the opportunity to play a druid barbarian and see it played several other times. The two classes have great synergy in both mechanics and roleplay. A 1 barbarian dip costs very little overall. Rage only takes 2 feats away from a build (extra rage, reckless rage). Rage on top of the massive physical stats of available wildshape forms and magic items nets some nice final strength and con scores. Fast movement works while in wild shape and is an untyped buff allowing buffs liek longstrider to go on top of them.

I'm glad that druidic avenger is an option now. It makes the build stronger by giving back 1 wild shape HD and a level of spellcasting. But even if it didnt exist, 1barbarian/x druid builds would still be doing fine.

[eggynack]

A 1 barbarian dip costs very little overall.
Except for a caster level, as well as a level of animal companion advancement and wild shape advancement.


Rage only takes 2 feats away from a build (extra rage, reckless rage).
Y'know that druid feats are ridiculously powerful, right? And also that druids are crazy feat starved? You can go through a massive pile of great feats without touching anything less than great.

Rage on top of the massive physical stats of available wildshape forms and magic items nets some nice final strength and con scores.
It's just a +4. It's kinda not that important that you have it on top of those noted massive physical stats. Seriously, you're turning off casting for this.

Fast movement works while in wild shape and is an untyped buff allowing buffs liek longstrider to go on top of them.
These things stack, but you don't need them to stack. Druid speeds are already greater than what you can get from just about anything else, due to wild shape. Overall, adding a level of barbarian does little to add to your actual class features, and it does a lot to detract. You're looking at a minor bonus to physical stats a few times a day for little gain. Just going shifter is significantly better, sacrificing naught but a different racial choice, and gaining what are potentially even bigger stat boosts from beast spirit, especially when you combine that with shifter traits.

[Nihilarian]

And Shifters get access to Moonspeaker, which is great.

On Barbarian/Druids: Druid is good for a Barbarian build. Barbarian is bad for a Druid build.

[eggynack]

And Shifters get access to Moonspeaker, which is great.
Yes indeedy. It's pretty much a fantastic deal all around. I think the class may go a bit downhill after level four though, especially given the fact that returning to druid gets you rapid summons. Also, the second version of prepare spell lets you swift cast the full round version of friendly fire, so that's pretty cool. I just wish the 5th level substitution weren't so craptacular.