bizarre multiclass-warlock question.

[WittyKitsune]

I have a rather bizarre rules-questions about a multiclass warlock build I am working on for a chaotic-good human I call Smitty.

Basically, Warlock 7 --> Enlightened Spirit 1 --> Paladin of Freedom 1 (UA).

Not only is PoF a better alignment fit for an Enlightened Spirit than Paladin, it "fits" the spirit of things better (including use of Baleful Utterance), and avoids taking Aura of Courage twice (PoF gets Aura of Resolve instead of Courage at 3rd lvl).

1: Warlock 1
--> Pt.Blk.Shot, Precise Shot; Eld.Blst 1d6; Inv.: Baleful Utterance
2: Warlock 2
--> Detect Magic, Inv: Eldritch Glaive or Hideous Blow (?)
3: Warlock 3
--> DR 1/cold iron, Eld.Blst 2d6, Ability Focus (Eldritch Blast)
4: Warlock 4
--> Deceive Item, Inv: See the Unseen
5: Warlock 5
--> Eld.Blast 3d6
6: Warlock 6
--> FlyBy Attack, Inv: Fell Flight (lesser)
7: Warlock 7
--> DR 2/cold iron, Eld.Blst 4d6
8: Enlightened Spirit 1
--> Aura of Courage, Aura of Menace, Spirit Blast
9: Paladin of Freedom 1 (Unearthed Arcana variant: CG alignment)
--> Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1/day; bonus feat=Leadership?

Obviously, Smitty might want to use a Chain Shirt, enjoy "Spirit Blasts from above", and trade out the paladin mount for Leadership or suchlike.

... anyway, I said all that to ask this about Smitty's smiting:
How would Smite Evil work with Eldritch Glaive / FlyBy attack?

P.S. I'm also debating on modifying this to include Eldritch Disciple (to gain Healing Blast). But yes, I did want to see if I could combine Eldritch Blast with Smite Evil in some way :)

[Particle_Man]

... anyway, I said all that to ask this about Smitty's smiting:
How would Smite Evil work with Eldritch Glaive / FlyBy attack?

P.S. I'm also debating on modifying this to include Eldritch Disciple (to gain Healing Blast). But yes, I did want to see if I could combine Eldritch Blast with Smite Evil in some way :)

I think Smite Evil only works with meelee attacks barring some racial substitution levels. So Eldritch Glaive would work with Smite Evil (using up one smite per attack with the glaive) but Eldritch Blast would not.

Flyby attack should not affect things either way, so long as you make your attack a meelee attack (Eldritch Glaive, not Eldritch Blast) you should be able to fly in, smite evil with a eldritch glave, fly out.

[Nihilarian]

The Cyran Avenger class from Five Nations grants a smite type of ability that works with ranged attacks, and also progresses EB damage and invocations.

[Phelix-Mu]

Eldritch Claws and Hideous Blow round out the ways to get normal smite and EB in the same attack, off the top of my head.

[Dr. Azkur]

I never liked Paladins of Freedom (Or Slaughter, for that matter)... their feel just doesn't fit the concept of Paladin. Vows are for the Lawful. May I suggest you enter classic Paladin? Of course you'd need to be LG for that (Alignment Shift passing by! Woot woot!), which actually doesn't interfere with your Warlock features, you just can't keep advancing Warlock until you're Chaotic again.
If you're set on CG then well... go ahead! Just a suggestion.

If you are keeping yourself to Flyby attacks ONLY then you should be fine with Hideous Blow, but if not, then by all means stick with Eldritch Claws. (But be weary! Using Hideous Blow carelessly puts your entrance to the Melee Warlock Society on the line. And we have the best parties).

Cheers! (I must say I rather liked this Warlock Pally!)

[WittyKitsune]

I never liked Paladins of Freedom (Or Slaughter, for that matter)... their feel just doesn't fit the concept of Paladin. Vows are for the Lawful. May I suggest you enter classic Paladin? Of course you'd need to be LG for that (Alignment Shift passing by! Woot woot!), which actually doesn't interfere with your Warlock features, you just can't keep advancing Warlock until you're Chaotic again.
If you're set on CG then well... go ahead! Just a suggestion.

Actually, I thought about the Paladin of Tyranny (LE), since I do like playing lawful characters... but the possibility of stacking two separate Auras (Courage and Resolve), plus the chance to make a repentant Paladin out of a Warlock, was too amusing not to give a try.
I suppose I could always play as I'm naturally inclined, thereby becoming lawful over the course of a level and then taking true Paladin as you suggested. But then I'd be concerned about getting Aura of Courage twice (one from the Enlightened Spirit level), and that seems a waste.


If you are keeping yourself to Flyby attacks ONLY then you should be fine with Hideous Blow, but if not, then by all means stick with Eldritch Claws. (But be weary! Using Hideous Blow carelessly puts your entrance to the Melee Warlock Society on the line. And we have the best parties).
Cheers! (I must say I rather liked this Warlock Pally!)

Heh. Thank you. I might need to come up with a better name than Smitty though (it was a mental placeholder anyway). Especially if I do make a different Paladin type - a nongood paladin would probably be more OK with flying (Fell Flight) since he has no desire to "shield others" from melee.

The only thing I can't really figure out is what to trade the paladin mount for (since if he can fly, he hardly needs a mount). Any ideas what a GM would think appropriate?

A Greatsword seems to be a suitable weapon for flyby's though.

... oh, and Nihilarian: I will have to look up that Cyran Avenger class.

[Snowbluff]

(Or Slaughter, for that matter)...

Paladins of Slaughter are amazing. I have no idea what you are talking about. :smalltongue:

[Dr. Azkur]

Huh, the Dual Auras does make sense... keep it then.
Here is a list of possible Biblical names for Smitty I thought were cool, since you're interested.

ABADDON m Biblical
Means "ruin, destruction" in Hebrew. In Revelation in the New Testament this is another name of the angel of the abyss.
ALPHAEUS m Biblical, Biblical Latin
From Αλφαιος (Alphaios), the Greek form of a Hebrew name that meant "changing". In the New Testament this is the name of the fathers of the apostles James and Levi.

This one is pretty cool. Specially because of its meaning and how it relates with a redeeming Warlock!

ARCHELAUS m Ancient Greek (Latinized), Biblical Latin, Biblical
Latinized form of the Greek name Αρχελαος (Archelaos), which meant "master of the people" from αρχος (archos) "master" and λαος (laos) "people". This was the name of a son of Herod the Great. He ruled over Judea, Samaria and Idumea.
ELIUD m Biblical
Greek form of a Hebrew name meaning "God is grandeur".
JAALA m Biblical
Means "wild goat" in Hebrew. In the Old Testament this is the name of a servant of Solomon.
MESHACH m Biblical
Possibly means "who is what Aku is?" in Akkadian, Aku being the name of the Babylonian god of the moon. In the Old Testament this is the Babylonian name of Mishael, one of the three men cast into a blazing furnace but saved from harm by God.
OTHNIEL m Biblical
Means "lion of God" in Hebrew. In the Old Testament he is the nephew of Caleb who becomes the first judge of Israel.
ZADOK m Biblical
Means "righteous" in Hebrew. This is the name of several characters in the Old Testament, most notably the high priest of Israel during the reigns of David and Solomon. Solomon was anointed by Zadok.


Oh and the 'flying yet having a mount" thing instantly made me remember this silly guy (http://www.cartoonscrapbook.com/01pics-L/dungeons-dragons_L55.jpg).


Paladins of Slaughter are amazing. I have no idea what you are talking about. :smalltongue:

As I said, vows and codes are for the Lawful. Slaughty there is just Anti-Lawful or Negative Lawful or a twist on Lawful or something among those lines. Truly Chaotic beings would throw away all of that.


Code of Conduct
A paladin of slaughter must be of chaotic evil alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits a good act. Additionally, a paladin of slaughter's code requires that she disrespect all authority figures who have not proven their physical superiority to her, refuse help to those in need, and sow destruction and death at all opportunities. Emphasis mine

But I do admit that beside that they're pretty cool and they are amazing when you slap Blackguard on it.

I'm just saying that a chaotic paladin just doesn't make sense to me as written.

[Nihilarian]

The Avenger (Dragon 310) will give you a bird buddy instead of a mount. However, Paladin abilities are based around defeating lawful creatures than evil ones. And you still get Aura of Courage.

The Corrupter (Dragon 312) is an Neutral evil class that is more about killing divine spellcasters. Loses mount for a familiar.

The Despot (312) and the Enforcer (310) gain leadership instead. Both evil, both against chaos.

The Incarnate (310) is true neutral, gains an elemental companion instead of a mount, and hates everyone.

The Sentinel (310) is NG and gains a celestial minion.

Power of Self (347) gains fighter bonus feats.

Smiting Arrow (349) can smite with ranged attacks (not sure if it works with EB, don't have it on me).

Sword of Celestial (349) gives you a swanky sword you can upgrade and summon.Besides those, the PHBII has Charging Smite (more smite evil damage on a charge, not expended if you miss)

Divine Spirit (dungeonscape) grants some healing abilities.

And Stand Fast (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) lets you buff the parties saves as an immediate action.

Pretty much everything scales with paladin level though.

[nedz]

B]Hideous blow is Hideous because[/B]

Standard action to use so

No Full attacks
No combining with other attack options like Charge, AoO etc.

It's an SLA so it provokes, unless you cast it defensively
Less chance of hitting because it's not a touch attack

That said, you can use it with Flyby attack (though not Spring attack) because Flyby attack gives you a standard action. Eldritch Glaive is generally better but can't be used with Flyby Attack because it's a full round action.

Eldritch Glaive

From Dragon magic
Can still provoke, but it has reach
Full round action to use so

You get a full attack
It doesn't work well with movement, e.g. Flyby Attack
Using it with Combat Reflexes can be hard

Touch attack for Eldritch blast damage


Eldritch Claws

From Dragon Magazine (#358) which might be an issue for you.
Prerequisite: Eldritch blast 2d6.
It's a free action to use which is handy.
Unarmed strike damage plus your Eldritch blast damage.
Interlocks with use of Eldritch blast (Blocks)
Counts as two claws (natural attacks)

So none of them are perfect for what you want.

You should be able to smite with Eldritch Glaive because it's a melee attack, Eldritch Claws likewise.

Maybe you need to use Eldritch Claws for Flyby attacks and Eldritch Glaive for iteratives. This will cost you a feat and an invocation.

[Dr. Azkur]

[...]
Maybe you need to use Eldritch Claws for Flyby attacks and Eldritch Glaive for iteratives. This will cost you a feat and an invocation.

In my experience, the versatility is very much worth it.

[Nihilarian]

He wants to use Eldritch Blast for flyby attack, I think.

[nedz]

He wants to use Eldritch Blast for flyby attack, I think.

Then that will work fine, only not with smite — since it's not a melee attack; unless he has some means of making a ranged smite of course.

[WittyKitsune]

He wants to use Eldritch Blast for flyby attack, I think.

Actually, truth be told, I tried to turn a warlock into a paladin to be able to say I did it. Then I took it more seriously, revising it a little to make things fit (like the stacking auras of Courage/Resolve).
Then I realized that Smite and Eldritch Blast didn't quite fit as perfectly as I liked, and figured to post the whole thing here to see if anyone could make the various class features fit better.

Plenty of ideas, though as to how to swoop with a Flyby rather than just floating and blasting. This weekend when I have time I'm going to reexamine all the suggestions I got and see what fits better.

The Aura of Menace from Enlightened Spirit does fit very nastily with melee attacks (5' range), and even more amusingly with a Flyby ("gotta scare 'em all", etc).
So obviously a melee build is most advisable. Which method is the question; and many good ideas have ya'll put forward for that!

[Vanitas]

I'm pretty sure there is an elf variant Paladin that gets ranged smite (just checked - Elf Paladin from Races of the Wild, though that kills your normal smite, it becomes ranged only). Even if you can't get that, there is the Ranged Smite Evil feat from Book of Exalted Deeds.

Paladin/Warlock has some synergy for glaivelocks because you can take Travel Devotion and fuel it with turn undead. Also, you would want high Cha for a debuffing glaivelock and you need high Cha for Paladin abilities.

[nedz]

Yes, there are two options for Ranged Smite though

Smiting Arrow Paladin (DR349 p93)

Elf Paladin – 1st level substitution (RotW p155)