Help with 3.5 wizards

[Teapot Salty]

Hey guys, with my mind overflowing with new character ideas, I've started to take a look at wizards. I know the basic context of them, but if someone could explain the finer points (how to find spells per day for example-I'm still pretty much a noob) and how to make it actually viable in a level 1 campaign I would like to do a destruction mage but since most of the good spells for that come at later levels I'm pretty much open. Note: Nothing to fancy or any real optimizing, that should come later when I actually know the class.

[ryu]

How many shenanigans can we use and how viable do you want to be at level 1? I can show you a guy who can avoid pretty much all harm at level one five times per day as an immediate action, can control and herd enemies every encounter of the day, and farts cones of 2d6 fire damage literally as many times as you want that day.

[AWiz_Abroad]

Wizards are a challenging class for a self proclaimed newbie, but my first character was a 3.5 wizard, so welcome to the club.

Spells per day. There is a basic chart in the srd entry on wizards. There is also under Basics a page entitled ability modifiers and spellcasters. Besides the base number of spells per day, you get bonuses for high intelligence (in the case of wizards).

I'd like to request that you tell us about the rest of your party so we can effectively balence the level of advice we give. As Ryu said, a wizard even starting at level 1 can do some pretty darn powerful things, but we don't want to overshadow the rest of your party.

I'm going to start providing some basics to look into.

I'd suggest googling treantmonks God Wizard guide on wizards.com. He's got a very specific type of wizard he builds centered around Battlefield control (BFC). It's a very powerful wizard archetype, and worth exploring. Not precisely the destruction mage flavor I know, but trust me, BFCing enemies is going to kill them a lot faster than melting their faces with fire.

Sometimes however you just want to watch the world burn. I'd suggest Reserve feats to your attention. They give you a low level at will blast that keys off of the highest level spell you have prepared of X type of energy. When combined with accomplished spellcaster (for a 2nd level spell at 1st level), that is the 2D6 at will fireball that Ryu is talking about.

Another item to look up is the Easy Bake Wizard here on GITP. This one utilizes several tasty feats and an alternate class feature (ACF) entitled Eidetic spellcaster to remove one of the major potential weaknesses of a wizard, namely reliance on a spell book, and get many many more spells known per level, increasing your versatility.

[Teapot Salty]

How many shenanigans can we use and how viable do you want to be at level 1? I can show you a guy who can avoid pretty much all harm at level one five times per day as an immediate action, can control and herd enemies every encounter of the day, and farts cones of 2d6 fire damage literally as many times as you want that day.
That sir, sounds awesome. And enough shenanigans for a person who understands spells, but not obscure optimizing.

[Teapot Salty]

Wizards are a challenging class for a self proclaimed newbie, but my first character was a 3.5 wizard, so welcome to the club.

Spells per day. There is a basic chart in the srd entry on wizards. There is also under Basics a page entitled ability modifiers and spellcasters. Besides the base number of spells per day, you get bonuses for high intelligence (in the case of wizards).

I'd like to request that you tell us about the rest of your party so we can effectively balence the level of advice we give. As Ryu said, a wizard even starting at level 1 can do some pretty darn powerful things, but we don't want to overshadow the rest of your party.

I'm going to start providing some basics to look into.

I'd suggest googling treantmonks God Wizard guide on wizards.com. He's got a very specific type of wizard he builds centered around Battlefield control (BFC). It's a very powerful wizard archetype, and worth exploring. Not precisely the destruction mage flavor I know, but trust me, BFCing enemies is going to kill them a lot faster than melting their faces with fire.

Sometimes however you just want to watch the world burn. I'd suggest Reserve feats to your attention. They give you a low level at will blast that keys off of the highest level spell you have prepared of X type of energy. When combined with accomplished spellcaster (for a 2nd level spell at 1st level), that is the 2D6 at will fireball that Ryu is talking about.

Another item to look up is the Easy Bake Wizard here on GITP. This one utilizes several tasty feats and an alternate class feature (ACF) entitled Eidetic spellcaster to remove one of the major potential weaknesses of a wizard, namely reliance on a spell book, and get many many more spells known per level, increasing your versatility.
Ya I don't need to be a burn all the things wizard at early levels, I'm perfectly content with being the cast sleep on all the things sort of wizard early on. Party balancing is not something that will work for me, since where I play, we're always scrabbling for players. I feel bad about saying this last part, but could you translate the last part into english please, (like I said, I'm more or less a total noob when it comes to spellcasters) I could just be being an idiot though, so that's a thing.

[Croix]

That sir, sounds awesome. And enough shenanigans for a person who understands spells, but not obscure optimizing.

There's something about optimization with a Wizard that's still obscure?

[eggynack]

There's something about optimization with a Wizard that's still obscure?
Well, yeah, probably. Wizards are well documented, but they're also dense as all hell. Some spells are individually more complicated than entire other classes. We do good work with them, but there's always at least some room for improvement, and there's always some new chunk of trickery running around.

[Croix]

Well, yeah, probably. Wizards are well documented, but they're also dense as all hell. Some spells are individually more complicated than entire other classes. We do good work with them, but there's always at least some room for improvement, and there's always some new chunk of trickery running around.

I understand that, but generally speaking Wizards have as much documentation on optimization that you could well go from 0 knowledge to an abundance as quickly as your mind can absorb. Far more than enough to fill the purpose of a first time Wizard player, that I just generally link people who ask for unspecific questions, or broad ones, as the OP has given, which actually giving the answer to would entail reciting most of a handbook (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/09/wizards-handbook-part-one-attributes.html). In fact I remember a handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=394) that more or less ranks all spells in comparison to each other and gives a general of what it does for the OP to decided which kinds of basic spells one would want, and most handbooks go so far as to give useful PrCs to even blaster casters. Now if spell tricks and such are of discussion there are several notable spells that in combination or by itself can do rather impressive things, as well as very flashy, sub-optimal things of which I do not think there is a handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002) for.

Perhaps what I am saying, in a round about manner, is what does the OP want to do and at which levels does he want to do them as to direct him in the correct path to finding, or simply give him, the knowledge he seeks. He seems to have some idea of what he wants to do, but not clear enough to give a straight forward answer... which again I would point to a handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12336.0) to read to make a more specific idea to pound out the finer details.

(Each one is a different handbook btw, the last one not being as good/comprehensive, but does offer an interesting thought.)

[ryu]

I would also recommend looking up specialization and focused specialization. Basically doing either forces you to ban entire schools of magic to get bonus spell slots of a school you choose. Specialization bans two. Focus specialization bans three. For bannable schools I recommend evocation, necromancy, and enchantment. The school I recommend specializing in is conjuration. Conjuration has the orb of x spells where is some form of painful elemental attack. It also comes with great battlefield control, summoning, teleportation, and matter creation effects. It blasts things to kingdom come and also does most of the other important things in the game too. Not all but most. If this is going to 20 transmutation may well be the tastier pick though. Also focus specializing conjuration qualifies you to trade in your wizard familiar for a ten foot teleport immediate action usable x times per day where x is your int mod. Precocious apprentice gets you a level two spell slot which you will use to learn any level 2 fire spell of your choice. Use this as prerequisite and fuel for the feat fiery burst. Suddenly you are a semi-invincible shotgun of flaming pain with the power of some of the best control tech in the game at this level in addition to all those other perks.

[Croix]

Or do as that guy says and go the route of an already made 1000 times optimization by being a Conjuration Specialist, possibly Focused, with the Abrupt Jaunt ACF to replace the rarely used Familiar as a beginning template build. Then do something unique like gain a feat that you'll need to retrain early, that you might not be able to retrain, just to do a trick that waiting two levels couldn't have gotten you instead of making due with the abundance of other spells in the meantime.

[ryu]

Or do as that guy says and go the route of an already made 1000 times optimization by being a Conjuration Specialist, possibly Focused, with the Abrupt Jaunt ACF to replace the rarely used Familiar as a beginning template build. Then do something unique like gain a feat that you'll need to retrain early, that you might not be able to retrain, just to do a trick that waiting two levels couldn't have gotten you instead of making due with the abundance of other spells in the meantime.

It's like I said earlier in another highly active thread. Sacrificing a bit of total power potential later to start higher on the graph early. The wizard is not a class that needs any help whatsoever winning everything at 20 with minimal effort. If you're specifically looking for making sure you have as much of that power as early as possible to smooth the ride to twenty? This is a fairly simple way of doing it in short order that will function well up to even the highest levels of practical OP games. We can talk about building for lower OP games and downgrading the power when we know what the party is expected to be like. Barring that when someone asks me how to make a wizard I make a wizard with all that that name implies and specialize to whatever needs have been stated. Want something a bit more gentle for the party? We can do that. Just ask.

[Petrocorus]

How many shenanigans can we use and how viable do you want to be at level 1? I can show you a guy who can avoid pretty much all harm at level one five times per day as an immediate action, can control and herd enemies every encounter of the day, and farts cones of 2d6 fire damage literally as many times as you want that day.

At level 1? I understand the Abrupt Jaunt, but Fiery Burst at level 1?
Please go ahead, show me.

[Croix]

It's like I said earlier in another highly active thread. Sacrificing a bit of total power potential later to start higher on the graph early. The wizard is not a class that needs any help whatsoever winning everything at 20 with minimal effort. If you're specifically looking for making sure you have as much of that power as early as possible to smooth the ride to twenty? This is a fairly simple way of doing it in short order that will function well up to even the highest levels of practical OP games. We can talk about building for lower OP games and downgrading the power when we know what the party is expected to be like. Barring that when someone asks me how to make a wizard I make a wizard with all that that name implies and specialize to whatever needs have been stated. Want something a bit more gentle for the party? We can do that. Just ask.
But not waiting 2 levels to do a cute trick is sort of an unnecessary sacrifice to to shine a little sooner. Besides, if you're me, every time you lay a Grease that trips an enemy and the meat shields hit it, but only because of the -4 to AC they are suffering I call that damage I did. Sure I might not have swung the weapon, but I made it possible. Every time a meat shield coup de graces a monster I put to sleep they couldn't have otherwise killed in one hit? Yeah, whatever damage they didn't do I claim as damage I did. Depending on how you look at it, you could very well be doing heaps of damage in comparison to a 2d6 with simple battlefield control spells. Heck, while we're at it any Strength modifier I give them I count every +1 as damage I made. Again, it's all how you look at it. The way I look at it, I outshine the party starting level 1 even if I play an unoptimized generalist wizard straight from the PhB.

[Segev]

At level 1? I understand the Abrupt Jaunt, but Fiery Burst at level 1?
Please go ahead, show me.

Human Wizard w/ Precocious Apprentice for Scorching Ray. Use the human bonus feat on the reserve feat to throw 2d6 of fire at will as long as you have a 2nd level fire spell prepped.

[Petrocorus]

Human Wizard w/ Precocious Apprentice for Scorching Ray. Use the human bonus feat on the reserve feat to throw 2d6 of fire at will as long as you have a 2nd level fire spell prepped.

Completely forgot about this combo. And the control / herd enemies is done with Charm Person?

[ryu]

Completely forgot about this combo. And the control / herd enemies is done with Charm Person?

Conjuration and illusion BFC effects.