Question about Dimension Hop - PHB II

[Valtu]

The text for this spell is as follows:


When you touch the creature, it disappears, leaves a cloud of motes in its wake, and reappears somewhere nearby.
You instantly teleport the subject creature a distance of 5 feet per two caster levels.
The destination must be an unoccupied space within line of sight.

Does that last line mean I'd have to transport the target to an unoccupied space of land/floor/etc, or could an open pit be considered "unoccupied?"

I'm hoping to get some more utility out of touch attacks as an Enlightened Fist. I can use touch spells to deliver extra damage to Unarmed Strikes, but I think it'd be pretty cool to make someone appear over a trap or teleport them off of the top of a very tall wall.

Eventually I plan on using Plane Shift (or something similar) and literally punching someone straight to hell, :smallbiggrin:but that's a 7th level spell, I think, so it'll be a little while before that's an option

[Gwendol]

I have a feeling the space needs to be able to support the creature, but I can be wrong.

[Diarmuid]

I see nothing in the spell that says you have to do anything other than pick a space within range that the target will fit that is unoccupied.

The utility certainly sounds neat, I just dont know how often you fit next to pits/traps/cliffs/etc and the range isnt terribly far.

[Karnith]

I have a feeling the space needs to be able to support the creature, but I can be wrong.
The general rule on this subject from the Conjuration school description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#conjuration):

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.
Given that you are not transporting a creature to your location, you should be able to use Dimension Hop to put the target wherever you want, including mid-air.

[Valtu]

I see nothing in the spell that says you have to do anything other than pick a space within range that the target will fit that is unoccupied.

The utility certainly sounds neat, I just dont know how often you fit next to pits/traps/cliffs/etc and the range isnt terribly far.

Yeah, I guess that's true. It did seem like it'd be fun to do, and for our last encounter, would've definitely worked extremely well on a few enemies, but yeah generally I guess that's not a situation that would typically arise.

What about the idea I have for when I'm a high enough level to get 7th level spells? That should feasibly work, right? Plane shift someone straight to Hades (or maybe the fire elemental plane) as I punch them, if they're too big or bad to risk trying to whittle away their HP, or maybe if we need to quickly remove a threat when there's no time to actually fight?

[Diarmuid]

I dont see any reason that wouldnt work also. But by the time you're getting 7th level spells, you have to hope that your opponents' will saves arent very good.

[Segev]

If all you need is line-of-sight and unoccupied space, you don't need a pit: send him straight up into the air.

[Gwendol]

The general rule on this subject from the Conjuration school description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#conjuration):

Given that you are not transporting a creature to your location, you should be able to use Dimension Hop to put the target wherever you want, including mid-air.

Yes, that's exactly it. Thanks for the clarification!

[Valtu]

I dont see any reason that wouldnt work also. But by the time you're getting 7th level spells, you have to hope that your opponents' will saves arent very good.

That is true, but a caster enemy could always cast feather fall or something to save himself anyway. I don't think fighters have great will saves, and we encounter a lot of those :smallbiggrin:


If all you need is line-of-sight and unoccupied space, you don't need a pit: send him straight up into the air.

Good point! I'm level 10, but caster level 8 right now. Does that mean I could send an enemy 30 feet above an enemy 10 feet away from me? Then the first one falls on top of the other, and they both receive some amount of damage and (probably) wind up prone?

[Segev]

To my knowledge, there are not hard-and-fast rules for generic creature A falling on generic creature B. So you're in DM-call territory.

[Bloodgruve]

Now I want my Duskblade back.. Since gravity is the omnipresent enemy and damage dealer, this could be a good damage dealer, 13th level throwing a couple opponents 65' up into the air each round.. I love it.

Blood~

[ZamielVanWeber]

Given that you are not transporting a creature to your location, you should be able to use Dimension Hop to put the target wherever you want, including mid-air.

This is how I ruled it when I was running a psionics game.

Side note I would have a discussion with your DM and Plane Shifting. Otherwise he may end up sending you 500 miles in the sky.

[Diarmuid]

Well, he's only looking to send an unwilling target somewhere far away so he's not really concerned with how close to "his destination" he's sending them.

That being said, while not written in the spell...is there any kind of knowledge of where you're plane shifting to assumed in the casting of the spell? Do you have to be familiar with the location, seen it, scried it, etc? Or do you just need to know what sort of material component is associated with a given plane/dimension and then use that focus when casting the spell?

[Valtu]

Well, he's only looking to send an unwilling target somewhere far away so he's not really concerned with how close to "his destination" he's sending them.

That being said, while not written in the spell...is there any kind of knowledge of where you're plane shifting to assumed in the casting of the spell? Do you have to be familiar with the location, seen it, scried it, etc? Or do you just need to know what sort of material component is associated with a given plane/dimension and then use that focus when casting the spell?

Also a good point. Honestly, as long as I am able to get it to any plane at all, or even 500 miles away but still on the material plane, I think that would eliminate the enemy as an immediate threat, even if it did live happily ever after in a really nice one :smalltongue:

It would be much more satisfying to send them to an elemental plane where they instantly die, or Hades, or somewhere else horrible, though hahaha.

I'll have to find out how that works though. Maybe a Knowledge of the Planes check? Either way, I've got a lot of time for my character to study or find someone who can do some scrying by then.

[Diarmuid]

Per the spell, you need a special focus for each plane you want to travel to/send people to.

[Valtu]

Per the spell, you need a special focus for each plane you want to travel to/send people to.

So I'd just have to buy the focuses (foci?) in town, or procure them through some other means. Maybe just find a wizard/sorcerer of a higher level and buy something off of them?

[Diarmuid]

By RAW, I guess? Obviously, without some personal knowledge you could ask for a "focus for Hades" and be given a "focus for Elysium".

The part I'm still not clear about is how you set the "location" you want to go that results in the 5-500 miles away mechanic. To me that means you would need knowledge of a specific location on that plane, but it's not listed there.

Probably a question best left to the DM.

[Valtu]

By RAW, I guess? Obviously, without some personal knowledge you could ask for a "focus for Hades" and be given a "focus for Elysium".

The part I'm still not clear about is how you set the "location" you want to go that results in the 5-500 miles away mechanic. To me that means you would need knowledge of a specific location on that plane, but it's not listed there.

Probably a question best left to the DM.

Like I said, pretty much anywhere on the destination plane is fine, even if I get the plane wrong haha.

But yeah, we'll work something out. Maybe the focus combined with a knowledge of the planes check would suffice.

[TuggyNE]

So I'd just have to buy the focuses (foci?) in town, or procure them through some other means. Maybe just find a wizard/sorcerer of a higher level and buy something off of them?

They're not given any particular cost, so dig around in your SCP*a bit and there they are. Boom, the wonders of poorly-written equipment. * That is, Spell Component Pouch.

[Valtu]

Good point! I'm level 10, but caster level 8 right now. Does that mean I could send an enemy 30 feet above an enemy 10 feet away from me?

I misread the spell description in my excitement, it seems: 5 feet per 2 caster levels, not per level :smallredface:

So at caster level 8 that is. . .20 ft. Not great unless we're on the edge of a cliff. Oh well, at least if I decided to go with a different spell with a similar effect I'd know how to use it, and one day I'll still get to plane shift someone straight to hell!

[ZamielVanWeber]

You can still use it to peel for squishies, or move them, as well as put enemies in a bad spot. You kinda become like Thresh from League of Legends.