Grabbing and throwing an enemy?

[Seharvepernfan]

Let's say I'm playing a character that is Huge and has like 40 Str. Is there any reason I can't just pick an enemy up and throw them? Assuming their total weight is well within my light load category. It would be a melee touch to actually grab them, like the beginning of a grapple, and probably a grapple check because they could try to wriggle out of my grasp, but what defense do they have against being so light compared to my strength? It shouldn't be an opposed str check, because I can simply lift them off the ground.

[Gwendol]

I don't think it has to be that elaborate. Just grab your opponent (melee touch attack, provoking an AoO), you don't need to establish a hold.
As for throwing the opponent there are rules for it: check out the hulking hurler and go from there.

[BWR]

I would personally require a grapple check to establish a hold, perhaps a bonus to the victim for being able to resist being lifted, then a throw which functions similar to a bull rush, only you throw half as far as you can push, and BR-specific abilities don't work on throwing.
You can also try altering the Fling Ally (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-stone--82/fling-ally--1146/) feat

[supermonkeyjoe]

I would personally require a grapple check to establish a hold, perhaps a bonus to the victim for being able to resist being lifted, then a throw which functions similar to a bull rush, only you throw half as far as you can push, and BR-specific abilities don't work on throwing.
You can also try altering the Fling Ally (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-stone--82/fling-ally--1146/) feat

Or you could go with the fling enemy feat, printed literally right next to the fling ally feat (would post it but I'm not sure if dndtools links are legit)

[Gwendol]

I would personally require a grapple check to establish a hold, perhaps a bonus to the victim for being able to resist being lifted, then a throw which functions similar to a bull rush, only you throw half as far as you can push, and BR-specific abilities don't work on throwing.
You can also try altering the Fling Ally (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-stone--82/fling-ally--1146/) feat

How can the victim resist being lifted? The only resistance is provided by gravity.

[hymer]

How can the victim resist being lifted? The only resistance is provided by gravity.

You have to avoid making this manoeuvre too useful. It should be harder to kill a lvl 10 medium guy than a lvl 1 medium guy by throwing him off a mountain or into a volcano, even if they're both in their skivvies.

[Seharvepernfan]

You have to avoid making this manoeuvre too useful. It should be harder to kill a lvl 10 medium guy than a lvl 1 medium guy by throwing him off a mountain or into a volcano, even if they're both in their skivvies.

I guess that's why I suggested having to win a grapple check first; I do think they should get a chance to resist being grabbed, though not to resist being thrown once grabbed.

EDIT: Yeah, I guess the rules for improvised throwing weapons could work here; I never thought of throwing enemies as weapons though.

[Gwendol]

Eh, isn't that taken care of by the AoO? Grabbing the victim will provoke, and if the AoO hits the grab is ineffective. The level 10 medium guy is more likely to do that than a level 1 enemy.

[Darrin]

Or you could go with the fling enemy feat, printed literally right next to the fling ally feat (would post it but I'm not sure if dndtools links are legit)

Fling Ally/Fling Enemy are lousy feats. They restrict you to one grab/throw per round.

If you combine Improved Grab with Hulking Hurler's "Throw Anything", then you can still attack + grab + throw, and you can use your iterative attacks to do so. For example:

King of Pong (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5892951#post5892951).

[hymer]

@ Gwendol: It helps. I don't think it's nearly enough, though of course opinions may differ. There's too many ways to get around it. Flat feet, someone else provoking an AoE first, being invisible, etc.

[hamishspence]

The Setting Sun school in Tome of Battle: The Book of 9 Swords is basically built around throws.

[Seharvepernfan]

The Setting Sun school in Tome of Battle: The Book of 9 Swords is basically built around throws.

But not for 20ft eidolon yetis.

[Red Fel]

Is there any reason I can't just pick an enemy up and throw them?

Freedom of Movement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedomOfMovement.htm) comes to mind.

[hamishspence]

But not for 20ft eidolon yetis.True- still - one can take a Martial Training feat or two - even without taking levels in the classes.

[BWR]

Or you could go with the fling enemy feat, printed literally right next to the fling ally feat (would post it but I'm not sure if dndtools links are legit)

Huh. didn't know that was a thing.


How can the victim resist being lifted? The only resistance is provided by gravity.
Have you tried grabbing hold of and lifting something that struggles to escape and perhaps harm you in the process? Not to mention positioning yourself for a throw of any significant sort. t's a bit harder than just grabbing hold of something.

[Seharvepernfan]

Have you tried grabbing hold of and lifting something that struggles to escape and perhaps harm you in the process? Not to mention positioning yourself for a throw of any significant sort. t's a bit harder than just grabbing hold of something.

Yeah, again, I think that's the grapple check, not the throwing part. The throwing part should be unresistable, in my opinion.

[Gwendol]

Have you tried grabbing hold of and lifting something that struggles to escape and perhaps harm you in the process? Not to mention positioning yourself for a throw of any significant sort. t's a bit harder than just grabbing hold of something.

Yes, I actually have, but I'm not Huge and with a strength of 40.

[lytokk]

Yes, I actually have, but I'm not Huge and with a strength of 40.

Then scale it down, grabbing hold of a small dog to throw. (Note, do not actually do this) I have a 17 lb dog, and while I could physically throw that weight, there's a lot of struggling going on, at least when he doesn't want to get picked up. Would more than likely be an escape artist or dex check to avoid getting thrown. Also, accuracy would be horrible as a struggling character would very likely throw off aim.

Setting sun manuevers seem to be based around leverage and momentum as opposed to raw power, so not perfect for the str based character, but mechanically would still fit.

[SinsI]

Just grab that enemy and use him as improvised weapon. -4 penalty and damage (to both the enemy and new targets) based on his size and weight. Exact numbers are on page 160 of Complete Warrior. You can probably dual-wield full-plate warrors, dealing 6d6 or 7d6 damage with each...

[Gwendol]

Then scale it down, grabbing hold of a small dog to throw. (Note, do not actually do this) I have a 17 lb dog, and while I could physically throw that weight, there's a lot of struggling going on, at least when he doesn't want to get picked up. Would more than likely be an escape artist or dex check to avoid getting thrown. Also, accuracy would be horrible as a struggling character would very likely throw off aim.

Setting sun manuevers seem to be based around leverage and momentum as opposed to raw power, so not perfect for the str based character, but mechanically would still fit.

I would have absolutely no problem (other than huge ethical and moral ones) throwing a 17 lb dog, provided I can get a hold.

[TripleD]

Fling Ally/Fling Enemy are lousy feats. They restrict you to one grab/throw per round.

Tell me about it. I tried to build a character around this idea (half-Orc that "enlarge person"-ed and threw people around), but could make anything viable out of it.

I tried home brewing a solution that worked half decently (Throw Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276553)). The math was a bit much at first, but once I'd memorized the average weight of the most common race/classes it sped things up a lot (e.g. Just about every medium wizard is between 100 and 200 lbs).

[justiceforall]

Sorry if this is a repost, but aren't there already basic rules for this that don't require feats?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050315a


Toss Your Foe: Make an opposed grapple check as a melee attack. If you succeed, you can literally pick up your foe (provided you can lift your foe's weight). Make a Strength check; if your result is at least 10, you toss your foe 5 feet. For every 5 points your Strength check result exceeds 10, you toss your foe another 5 feet, to a maximum of 25 feet.

[Slipperychicken]

Sorry if this is a repost, but aren't there already basic rules for this that don't require feats?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050315a

That rule looks good, but I'd just give creatures range increment 10ft (now that I think about it, shouldn't range increments scale with size?) instead, and you'd only have to make the strength check if the creature puts you over your max weight.

Also, I would laugh so hard if the PCs climbed a mountain, started fighting a giant there, and then it just picked them up one at a time and hurled them back down.

[Qwertystop]

I would like to point out that the grapple rules aren't "grabbing someone", they're grappling with them - bit of a tussle. If you want to just grab someone and pick them up, use the Snatch feat, or a modified version if you don't have a claw or bite attack. Snatch also has built-in mechanics for throwing - 10 ft and 1d6 damage per size category greater than small (yours, not theirs).