PDA

View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class "Gravekeeper" (Non-evil Necromancy prestige class)



Diachronos
2014-02-04, 12:25 PM
I was going for a class that seeks permission of the undead they're animating before doing so, with some abilities thrown in to give more of an "exchange" flavor; rather than just ripping a body out of the ground or casket and making it your servant, you ask it for help and can offer to give some of your life energy (the "permanent" hp loss from Life for Unlife and the negative levels from Death to Half-life).

For context, I was trying to come up with something that I could prestige into with my Half-Vampire Dread Necromancer (technically multiclassed, with one level in the Vampire Spawn racial class from Libris Mortis). The other necromancy prestige classes were either unappealing (required an evil alignment or just didn't have abilities that interested me) or had requirements I couldn't meet without multiclassing. My DM actually really liked the build though, and I'm probably going to prestige into it for my 8th or 10th level.

Prerequisites:
* Alignment: Any nonevil
* Skills: Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks, Spellcraft/Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Diplomacy 4 ranks
* Feats: Spirit Sense
* Spells: Able to cast Animate Dead

Class Features:
* Hit Dice: d6
* Class Skills: Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), Profession, Spellcraft
* Skill Points: 2 + Int/level



Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Special
Spells


1st
+0
+1
+0
+2
Speak with Dead, Rebuke Undead, Séance
+1 level of existing class


2nd
+1
+1
+0
+3
Dread Undeath, Gravekeeper's Ward 1/day
+1 level of existing class


3rd
+1
+2
+1
+3
Aura of Undeath, Awaken Undead 1/day
+1 level of existing class


4th
+2
+2
+1
+4
Soulbound Warrior, Improved Séance
+1 level of existing class


5th
+2
+3
+2
+4
Soul's Might
+1 level of existing class


6th
+3
+3
+2
+5
Put to Rest, Awaken Undead 2/day
+1 level of existing class


7th
+3
+4
+3
+5
Gravestep, Gravekeeper's Ward 2/day
+1 level of existing class


8th
+4
+4
+3
+6
Soulbound Champion
+1 level of existing class


9th
+4
+5
+4
+6
Greater Soul's Might, Awaken Undead 3/day
+1 level of existing class


10th
+5
+5
+4
+7
Transcend Mortality
+1 level of existing class



* Weapon/Armor proficiency: No new proficiencies

* Spells: Add Gravekeeper levels to character's spellcaster class to determine spells known and spells/day (if more than one spellcaster class, must choose which class to apply the increase to for each Gravekeeper level).

* Speak with Dead (Sp): A Gravekeeper may use Speak with Dead as a spell-like ability at will, except the casting time is a standard action instead of 10 minutes.

* Rebuke Undead (Su): A Gravekeeper has the ability to rebuke undead as a Cleric. Gravekeeper levels count as Cleric levels when using Rebuke Undead, and stack with levels in other classes that grant this ability.

* Séance (Ex): The Gravekeeper may make a Diplomacy check (with a bonus equal to their Gravekeeper level) as a free action before casting Create Undead or Animate Dead. The DC for the check is (DC 10 + HD of the undead); if the Undead being animated or created has turn resistance (excluding those from Gravekeeper class abilities), the Séance DC increases by 2 for each point of turn resistance (example: +2 turn resistance would increase the DC by 4). If successful, the spell loses the Evil descriptor.
Séance has an additional effect when used with Create Undead: The created undead is automatically under the Gravekeeper's control upon creation. The Gravekeeper may only control a limited number of created undead with their Séance ability; the limit is equal to 2 + their Charisma modifier per Gravekeeper level, and is counted separately from their Animate Dead limit. If the Gravekeeper exceeds this limit, they must release their control over previously created undead, though they are indifferent to the Gravekeeper as opposed to hostile.

* Dread Undeath: At 2nd level, the Gravekeeper gains Dread Undeath as a bonus feat, even if they don't meet the prerequisites. If the Gravekeeper already had Dread Undeath, they gain Extra Turning instead.

* Gravekeeper's Ward (Su): The Gravekeeper may perform a ritual to create a ward protecting tended remains against necromancy. The ritual takes one hour to complete, and grants permanent spell resistance equal to (20 + Gravekeeper level + Charisma modifier) against Animate Dead spells and effects to all properly tended remains within 100ft per Gravekeeper level. The Gravekeeper may bypass this spell resistance with their Séance ability.
Additionally, once per day the Gravekeeper can, as a standard action, grant spell resistance equal to (10 + Gravekeeper level + Charisma modifier) to all allies within 50ft for 1 round per Gravekeeper level. The number of times the Gravekeeper may use this version of their Ward increases to 2/day at level 7.

* Aura of Undeath (Su): At 3rd level, the Gravekeeper projects an aura that bolsters undead similar to Desecrate spell; the aura extends 10ft/Gravekeeper level and only affects undead under the Gravekeeper's control.

* Awaken Undead (Sp): The Gravekeeper may use Awaken Undead once per day as a spell-like ability. Gravekeeper levels stack with any previous caster levels when determining total caster level.
The Gravekeeper may use this ability 2/day at level 6, and 3/day at level 9.

* Improved Séance (Ex): The cooperation of the undead reduces the amount of power the Gravekeeper must use to keep them animated and in check, allowing the Gravekeeper to animate and control more undead than normal. Undead that are created or animated with a successful Séance check count as having 2/3 as many HD, rounded up, when determining the number of HD worth of undead the Gravekeeper controls. For example: a Mohrg (14HD) that was controlled after a successful Séance check would only count as having 10HD for the purposes of how many HD of undead the Gravekeeper can control.

* Soulbound Warrior (Su): Once per week, a Gravekeeper may give himself two negative levels to return a soul to its body (Negative levels gained this way can't be cured naturally or magically, but can't become permanent level loss). This ability functions similarly to a True Resurrection spell, except the creature's type becomes Undead (do not reroll Hit Dice). The creature also gains turn resistance equal to 1/2 the Gravekeeper's class levels, and gains a save bonus equal to the Gravekeeper's Charisma modifier against spells that specifically target undead creatures.
The effect lasts for one week or until the restored creature is destroyed, and may be dismissed as a standard action; when the effect ends, the Gravekeeper regains the negative levels used to activate the ability. The Gravekeeper must succeed a Séance check in order to use this ability, and the ability requires a 1-hour ritual.

* Soul's Might (Su): A Gravekeeper may draw upon the power of a willing undead creature they have created or animated. With a successful Séance check (as a swift action), the Gravekeeper receives a bonus to all ability scores equal to 2 per 5HD of the targeted undead; the undead creature falls to the ground and counts as being destroyed, but reanimates (even if it's a skeleton or zombie) when the Soul's Might effect ends. The Gravekeeper may use this ability for a number of rounds equal to 5 + their Charisma modifier each day, though the rounds need not be consecutive. When the ability's effect ends, the Gravekeeper is fatigued (though they ignore the fatigue penalties during later uses of the ability).
If the Gravekeeper has a Stitched-Flesh Familiar, they may target their familiar with this effect.

* Put to Rest (Su): A Gravekeeper can destroy an undead creature to put its soul at ease. By expending 3 rebuke attempts, the Gravekeeper can force a single undead creature to make a Will save (DC 10 + Gravekeeper's ranks in Diplomacy + Gravekeeper class levels) or be destroyed; the undead receives a bonus to its Will save equal to its turn resistance. The Gravekeeper may choose to expend additional rebuke attempts when using this ability to increase the DC by 1 per additional attempt used.

* Gravestep (Su): At 7th level, the Gravekeeper can create a dimensional link between burial sites that they have warded, allowing them to travel great distances in moments. The Gravekeeper may create a gateway between any Gravekeeper's Wards that they have created as a standard action; the gateway remains open for one round per Gravekeeper level, though the Gravekeeper may close the gate at will as a free action.
(This one's actually kinda useless to my half-vampire, since the DM's world already has a plane of undeath called "The Graveyard" that necromancers can use to travel between graveyards and tombs, but I thought it would do nicely for flavor. Or maybe even an alternate way to move around if my character somehow loses the relic that lets her enter the Graveyard.)

* Soulbound Champion (Su): At 8th level, the Gravekeeper's ability to create a Soulbound Warrior grows stronger. Its turn resistance increases to be equal to the Gravekeeper's level, and it gains a bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, and saves equal to half the Gravekeeper's level (rounded down). Additionally, a Soulbound Champion is considered to be a living creature for the purposes of positive and negative energy effects, though the Gravekeeper's negative energy effects still heal the Champion.

* Greater Soul's Might (Su): The Gravekeeper's Soul's Might abililty now grants him a deflection bonus to his AC equal to his Charisma modifier, and he is no longer fatigued after using the ability. Additionally, the ability score bonus increases to 2 per 3 HD of the targeted undead.

* Transcend Mortality (Su): By 10th level, the Gravekeeper transcends mortality, so that he may watch over the dead for eternity. They no longer need to sleep or eat (although the gravekeeper must still rest in order to prepare/recharge spells), and no longer ages. Nor can the Gravekeeper die of old age. Finally, the Gravekeeper becomes immune to Critical hits, as well as death effects and negative energy,*though he may heal himself with his own negative energy spells and abilities as if he were undead.

* Code of Conduct: Gravekeepers will not defile resting places in any way, though they may take items if the local culture allows it and they follow the proper customs (such as exchanging their own weapon for a similar weapon from a dwarf's tomb, as a dwarf would prefer for their weapon to be used in battle). They must respect those who have been buried, and may not create undead from a buried corpse without the consent of that person's spirit. They may freely animate the corpses of animals and those who try to harm them without cause (such as bandits), though many still prefer to obtain consent before doing so. If an animated undead under a Gravekeeper's control is destroyed, they must do what they can to give the undead an appropriate burial.
* Ex-Gravekeepers: A Gravekeeper who violates the code of conduct by defiling a resting site or forcefully animating the tended corpse of an intelligent creature (anything with an Intelligence score of 8 or higher), or by using the Undead they've summoned for evil purposes, loses all Gravekeeper abilities, and may not regain the abilities or take further levels in the class until they atone. In addition to the atonement spell, the ex-Gravekeeper must remain in and guard a tomb or other burial site for 1 year per level of Gravekeeper that they had.

As a side note, I want to thank Aludrin for his fixed Dread Necromancer build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282810). Going off the Dread Necromancer as it was listed in Heroes of Horror, the prestige class would've been inaccessible until my 10th level (that level of Vampire Spawn slows my access down a bit...), whereas a Cleric could've gotten into it starting at level 7, which makes absolutely no freaking sense. Don't know what Wizards was thinking when they made a dedicated Necromancer class who was worse at Necromancy than something as versatile as a Cleric or Necromancy-spec Wizard...

Woot, got the table right on my first try!

Edit: Bumping it up to 10 levels to both spread out the abilities and give them some room for more stuff. "Death to Half-life" is now "Soulbound Warrior," and I made a few tweaks to some of the abilities.

Edit (4/24/2014): Forgot to mention in Soul's Might that the undead creature is effectively destroyed until the effect ends.
Edit (5/14/2014): Adding in a minimum Intelligence for having to use Séance
(Edit (8/10/2014): Adding a control limit for Create Undead

ScrambledBrains
2014-02-04, 12:48 PM
As somebody who has never run any form of minionmancy or undead control build, I have no input on the mechanics of this.

That said, I think the flavor is very neat, and I approve of any homebrew attempt to fill a niche(In this case, that of a non-evil raiser of undead.). Kudos. :smallsmile:

Also, congrats on the table. :smallbiggrin:

Diachronos
2014-02-15, 04:57 PM
I actually started debating over the possibility of making alterations to the type or innate abilities of the Undead that a Gravekeeper animates.

Maybe turning them into Deathless, or creating a new Undead type?

drack
2014-02-16, 09:41 AM
*Reads asking permission*
*crosses fingers for deathless*

"Practiced Mortician": traditionally this ability is called "armored XXXXXXXX" or something identifying in the name that it's about light armor.

"Séance" may be fluff, and I forget where I had a whole discussion on it, but the simplified version of the argument on why necromancy is evil and tortures the one it rises is here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=331552

"Life for Unlife" maybe were the ratio reversed. As it is it's pretty much like how some brewers try to just nix animation costs, only that this applies to other spells too.

"Aura of Undeath" classic. :smallwink:

"Improved Séance" by the way, these guys have a command limit?

"Awaken Undead" nifty

"Soul's Might" less cliche' always good.

"Code of Conduct" might want this at the top of the list.

always a sucker for undeath. :smalltongue:

Edit: yup, deathless or new type may be for the best, if new type I suggest them being willful and harder to command since they remember their life and want to live as they will despite being bound to your service. :smalltongue:

Diachronos
2014-02-22, 03:01 PM
"Improved Séance" by the way, these guys have a command limit?


Not sure what you mean by that...

Also, I decided to change the spell requirements so that the class is limited to arcane casters. Clerics are already the best necromancers in the game without having to resort to homebrew builds, and they already have a bunch of other cool prestige classes that pretty much only they can get into; they don't need another one on top of that.

drack
2014-02-22, 03:02 PM
Not sure either. :smalltongue: Mayhaps I had misread it at the time.

Diachronos
2014-02-22, 03:15 PM
Here's what I have so far for an upgraded undead type:
"Soulbound" - The Gravekeeper merges a body with the body's soul, similar to what a resurrection effect would do, without actually bringing the creature back to life. Essentially, they're "resurrected" but still undead, but the bond to their soul gives them additional powers
Undead traits, except:
* Immune to/healed by positive energy effects
* Immune/resistant to spells meant to harm/destroy undead
* Immune to turning effects
* For spells that have a different/magnified effect against undead, a soulbound would be affected as if it weren't undead

drack
2014-02-22, 03:48 PM
OK, may want to phrase it as inviting the soul back in with a % failure where the soul simply doesn't wish to return. If they're positive energy creatures they'll be healed by positive energy and harmed by negative energy. (common for willing undeads such as deathless) Also remember that they're not counting against anyone's command limit because they can't be controlled if they're immune to turning, so you might want to reconsider that bit. (Deathless are rebuked by turning and turned by rebuking though which may fit this template)

Diachronos
2014-02-25, 12:08 PM
Hmm.....

Now that I think about it, it would make more sense to have them be healed by positive energy and hurt by negative energy because of their nature. Maybe have it that way, but have it so that the Gravekeeper's neg energy effects will still heal them since their power is sort of "connected"?

Rather than immunity, a bonus to turn resistance might be better.

Speaking of turning and rebuking, I just realized that there's no way for a Gravekeeper to turn or rebuke undead unless they're prestiging from Dread Necromancer...

drack
2014-02-25, 12:22 PM
Or change them to positive energy things. That's the choice. positive energy is for good undeadss, but then once you go back to fighting orcs you no longer hurt them then. Still if you're a healer helping them back to their bodies when they need it, would it really make more sense to be doing the opposite with your orcs?

Turn resistance: yup.

TheFamilarRaven
2014-02-25, 02:36 PM
I like the flavor, actually you just motivated me to make a white necromancy Prc in the near future :smallbiggrin: but anyway .... I'll get to PEACHing.

Og course, when I say "I'll get t o PEACHing" it means i'll look it over in more detail in a few hours when I have time. :smalltongue:

However, I noticed one thing about the requirement that makes this class impossible to play.


* Spells: Able to cast Speak with Dead and Animate Dead as arcane spells

Speak with dead is a 3rd level cleric spell ... SRD link HERE (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/speakWithDead.htm)

Personally ... The flavor of this class says "divine caster prc" to me at least. I know you claim that clerics, (and I'm paraphrasing a bit) are already the best minion-mancers in DnD, so they don't need PrC's that buff that. But hear me out ...
-This class is called "Gravekeeper", and where do you bury the dead? In a church yard most likely!
- And, remember, even though cleric may be better than arcane casters at undead controlling-ness, clerics who want to do that are limited to evil (or, well, neutral too i guess, but shhhhhhhhh). Besides, all the BEST undead domains are limited to mostly (if not all) evil deities.

EDIT: Also, even with the Arcane Disciple feat, arcane casters can't get Speak With Dead, because it's not on any domain lists (in core at least, maybe in another splat book).

drack
2014-02-25, 03:54 PM
OK, gonna have to object there. clerics needn't worship an evil god to get good undead domains. Let me rephrase that. Clerics needn't worship any god to get access to any domain. :smallwink: (clerics may follow their ideals instead of gods and choose any 2 domains)

Also those with undeads aren't all evil. Those that rebuke/command are evil or neutral with evil gods/ideals, or the truest of all neutrals, but any old LG cleric of Palor could cast animate dead. Would they most of the time, probably not, would palor like it, also probably not. Would it make them a worse person for having summoned back a soul from their desired resting place, twisted the spirit until it could no longer be said to have even a semblance of intelligence, then to complete the mockery, tie it to their corpse as if willingly revived while their corpse decays about them... yes it probably would and if they make a habit of doing this they may turn evil, but you can have good priests who animate dead... on special occasions. :smalltongue:

TheFamilarRaven
2014-02-25, 04:12 PM
Ah, you are right of course ... I completely forgot that non-theistic clerics are in RAW :smallredface: Although they are still restricted by alignment. WHAT that restriction actually IS, can only be determined by individual DM's. As they don't explicitly say "good clerics can't cast or prepare spells with the 'evil' descriptor, else they shift towards evil, and vice-versa etc."

However, that still doesn't fix the problem of the Speak With Dead requirement, since Speak With Undead is a divine only spell, and I can't think of any arcane caster (feats or otherwise) that can cast it off the top of my head.

drack
2014-02-25, 04:29 PM
Well would an evil cleric of obadhi not be allowed to cast cure light wounds? I'd assume they and a godless one would both be allowed to. Still I figure the player may make a theme between domains, which might be evil enough that his/her/it's morals don't allow her/it/him to heal people because it would defile it's/his/her pure beliefs.

And no it doesn't resolve that bit. :smalltongue:

TheFamilarRaven
2014-02-25, 10:16 PM
Ok, so I promised a PEACH, so here it is .... first of all .... If you've read some of the posts above, you'll notice I mention the Speak With Dead as an arcane spell being an impossible requirement. Then I read your build, saw the spell list for Dread Necromancer, and sure enough ... they have it :smallredface:. So with THAT out of the way ... onto the PEACH




Prerequisites:
* Alignment: Any nonevil
* Skills: Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks, Spellcraft/Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Diplomacy 4 ranks
* Feats: Spirit Sense
* Spells: Able to cast Speak with Dead and Animate Dead as arcane spells

I've said it before, but the idea the class has to be arcane is a little weird. It makes sense in the context in which you created the class, but the a "GraveKeeper" seems like someone who tends to the buried dead, performing rites, digging graves etc, which fits well within the scope of the cleric, or any other divine caster for that matter.




* Weapon/Armor proficiency: Gains proficiency with scythe and light armor

Why? I get the whole grim reaper thing with the scythe, but what is the basis for it fluff-wise? A full-caster shouldn't need/want a melee weapon anyway (usually). Plus, this is a little redundant. The only class right now that can qualify for this PrC is the Dread Necro, who automaticallly get proficiency with light armor and a martial weapon of their choice.


* Spells: Add Gravekeeper levels to character's spellcaster class to determine spells known and spells/day (if more than one spellcaster class, must choose which class to apply the increase to for each Gravekeeper level)

standard, nice


* Practiced Mortician: The Gravekeeper ignores spell failure chance when casting Necromancy spells while wearing light armor

Again, redundant, the Dread Necro already has this feature, and all their spells are necromancy, with maybe like one or two exceptions.


* Séance: The Gravekeeper may make a Diplomacy check (with a bonus equal to their Gravekeeper level) before creating, animating, or controlling undead (DC 10 + HD of the undead) to make the undead friendly toward the Gravekeeper and allies when the spell or ability is used (even if the undead would not be under the Gravekeeper's control), and they are automatically under the Gravekeeper's control. If the Diplomacy check is failed, the undead behaves as normal for the effect.

I'm a little confused with this ability. when would you use it? I'm basically reading that if the Gravekeeper animates, creates or controls undead, they can make a diplomacy before they cast the spell to make them friendly to them and their allies... then "... automatically under the Gravkeeeper's control." says to me that if the diplomacy check succeeds they instantly gain control over the undead, if not, then the spell functions as normal?

In the case above, then the only time this ability would be used is when the Gravekeeper casts Control undead. May want to reword it. I imagine you'd want it to work something like this:

Séance SU): When animating undead, the Gravekeeper makes a diplomacy check with a DC equal to (10 + HD of the animated undead), to request the soul of the deceased to temporarily return as an undead in order to help the Gravekeeper and his allies. If successful, the Aniamte Dead spell no longer has the [Evil] descriptor for that particular casting. Failure does not mean that the Gravekeeper can't cast Animate Dead. The GraveKeeper gets a bonus to the diplomacy roll equal to his Gravekeeper class levels.

Additionally, the Gravekeeper can use this ability when casting Control Undead. The DC is the same, and success means the spell automatically succeeds. Failure means the undead is entitled to the regular Will save.

This ability can not be used on intelligent undead. Animated, created and controlled undead are not considered evil creatures (unless they were evil in life).


* Life for Unlife: For Necromancy spells that animate or create undead with a costly material component, the Gravekeeper may substitute 1 hit point per 10g of the component's cost. Hit points lost this way can't be healed (naturally or magically), but are regained when the created/animated undead is destroyed. The Gravekeeper must succeed a Séance check in order to use this ability.

Seems fine, maybe add "per 10g of the component cost (round down)." because the component cost of Animate dead is 25gp per undead animated.


* Aura of Undeath: At 3rd level, the Gravekeeper projects an aura that bolsters undead similar to Desecrate spell; aura extends 10ft/Gravekeeper level and only affects ally undead.

Instead of "ally undead", maybe make it "undead created or controlled by the Gravekeeper."


* Improved Séance: The cooperation of the undead reduces the amount of power the Gravekeeper must use to keep them animated and in check, allowing the Gravekeeper to animate and control more undead than normal. Undead that are created, animated, or controlled with a successful Séance check count as having half as many HD, rounded up, when determining the number of HD worth of undead the Gravekeeper controls. For example: a Mohrg (14HD) that was controlled after a successful Séance check would only count as having 7HD for the purposes of how many HD of undead the Gravekeeper can control.

If Gravekeeper class levels stack with other caster levels than this doubles the amount of undead normally available to ANY necromancer. The biggest amount of HD i've seen being able to be controlled is 3 x caster levels worth of HD. and that is with a deathbound cleric. I would try to balance this ability out with existing boosts to undead control (like deathbound domain) and make sure not to surpass them. That way the game stays relatively balanced ... relatively ...

Instead of 1/2 the regular HD, maybe make it 2/3 the regular hitdice. That way it equal in power with the deathbound domain. The only problem I can see is that if you open this class up to divine casters (which I still think makes sense), than we'd have the same problem, but that can be fixed by simply stated that the ability does not function if the cleric has access to the deathbound domain.

Also, if you go with my suggested re-write of Seance, than this is where I'd include the addition that Seance is now able to be used on intelligent undead.


* Awaken Undead: The Gravekeeper may use Awaken Undead once per day as a spell-like ability (caster level equal to Gravekeeper level plus Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer, and Dread Necromancer levels)

Dread necromancer at the moment is the only class that can qualify for this PrC. I would re-write this as "...Gravekeeper levels stack with any previous caster levels when determining total caster level."


* Death to Half-life: Once per week, a Gravekeeper may give himself two negative levels to partially restore life to a dead creature (Negative levels gained this way can't be cured naturally or magically, but can't become permanent level loss). The restored creature is the same as it was in life (it regains all feats, skills, racial and class abilities, and ability scores), except its type becomes Undead. The effect lasts for one week or until the restored creature is destroyed, and may be dismissed as a standard action; when the effect ends, the Gravekeeper regains the negative levels used to activate the ability. The Gravekeeper must succeed a Séance check in order to use this ability.

Nifty, I like it a lot. Do they have to re-roll hitpoints? because now their hitdice are d12's for being undead.


* Soul's Might: A Gravekeeper may draw upon the power of a spirit or other incorporeal undead, though the undead must be willing. With a successful Séance check, they receive a +2 bonus to all ability scores (if one or more of the undead's ability scores would be higher after this bonus, those scores instead become the same as the undead's), and gains a deflection bonus to their AC equal to their Charisma modifier. The Gravekeeper's attacks ignore armor as if it were an incorporeal creature, and they are immune to all effects that an Undead creature would be immune to. The Gravekeeper may use this ability three times per day, but may not use if for more than 5 + Charisma modifier rounds in a single day. When the ability's effect ends, the Gravekeeper is fatigued (though they ignore the fatigue penalties during later uses of the ability).

this one is also a little confusing. Who is being buffed here? i assume the gravekeeper but it's hard to tell from reading. If it's the gravekeeper, maybe write it like this. "...after a successful Seance check, the Gravekeeper get's a +2 bonus to all ability scores." i'm also under the impression that if the spirit used in this ability has higher scores than (the gravekeeper's +2), the gravekeeper gets those scores?


* Code of Conduct: Gravekeepers will not defile resting places in any way, though they may take items if the local culture allows it and they follow the proper customs (such as exchanging their own weapon for a similar weapon from a dwarf's tomb, as a dwarf would prefer for their weapon to be used in battle). They must respect those who have been buried, and may not create undead from a buried corpse without the consent of that person's spirit. They may freely animate the corpses of animals and those who try to harm them without cause (such as bandits), though many still prefer to obtain consent before doing so. If an animated undead under a Gravekeeper's control is destroyed, they must do what they can to give the undead an appropriate burial.
* Ex-Gravekeepers: A Gravekeeper who violates the code of conduct by defiling a resting site or forcefully animating a buried corpse, or by using the Undead they've summoned for evil purposes, loses all Gravekeeper abilities, and may not regain the abilities or take further levels in the class until they atone. In addition to the atonement spell, the ex-Gravekeeper must remain in and guard a tomb or other burial site for 1 year per level of Gravekeeper that they had.

Nice RP note.

Overall, I like the theme of the class. It needs some re-writes for clarity. The biggest issue is that the ONLY class that qualifies for this PrC is the Dread Necro. I would alleviate the restriction for arcane spells, and take away the speak with dead spell requirement. You can easily give them the Speak With Dead as a spell known at the first level of this class anyway. And make it (+1 of existing class) instead of (+ 1 of existing arcane class) under the spellcasting section.

I realize that this is meant to be a PrC for your dread necro build but a PrC is a prC and those should be available to multiple classes (unless that PrC augments a unique class feature).

Hope I helped ... If I said anythign remotely offensive, feel free to slap me across the face. :smallsmile:

Diachronos
2014-02-26, 04:44 PM
However, that still doesn't fix the problem of the Speak With Dead requirement, since Speak With Undead is a divine only spell, and I can't think of any arcane caster (feats or otherwise) that can cast it off the top of my head.

Dread Necromancer gets it as a level 3 spell, actually.

But I didn't realize that it's limited to Dread Necro and Clerics, so I might as well have Dread Necromancer levels as a requirement, which isn't something I wanted to do.



I'm a little confused with this ability. when would you use it? I'm basically reading that if the Gravekeeper animates, creates or controls undead, they can make a diplomacy before they cast the spell to make them friendly to them and their allies... then "... automatically under the Gravkeeeper's control." says to me that if the diplomacy check succeeds they instantly gain control over the undead, if not, then the spell functions as normal?

Yeah, I should've clarified the wording there. It doesn't do much for Animate Dead, true, but in my head it was going to deny the Undead their Will save against Control Undead, and for Create Undead they would automatically be under your control rather than creating a "Yeah, you just made a Mummy; now it's attacking you" scenario.

I like the function to remove the Evil descriptor, though!

drack
2014-02-26, 05:15 PM
Yeah, I should've clarified the wording there. It doesn't do much for Animate Dead, true, but in my head it was going to deny the Undead their Will save against Control Undead, and for Create Undead they would automatically be under your control rather than creating a "Yeah, you just made a Mummy; now it's attacking you" scenario.

Oh... that could be a wee bit very broken. :smallbiggrin:

Diachronos
2014-02-26, 05:29 PM
I might need to increase the number of levels that the class has, since I want to come up with more abilities for them and it seems like some of the levels are a little bloated.

New abilities I wanted to add were:

Ritual to turn Undead into Soulbound, which gives them:
* Turn resistance (equal to Gravekeeper level, maybe?)
* Count as positive energy beings, so hurt by negative energy and healed by positive energy. Possibly having an exception where the Gravekeeper who made them can still heal them with Negative energy?
* Bonus to saves against spells and abilities that specifically target undead?
* Balanced by a % chance to fail (linked to the Séance check used in the ritual?)
Something that allows the Gravekeeper to alter the way their negative energy spells and abilities work on undead. First thing that comes to mind is giving them the ability to choose whether it heals them like normal or damages them ("manipulating the negative energy to disrupt them" or something).
Buffs to Soul's Might. Either higher bonuses, more time per day that it can be used, or removing the fatigue at the end.
"Gravekeeper's Ward" - A ritual/ability they can use to effectively create a "Magic Circle against Necromancy," only the Gravekeeper's spells and effects will still work. More for flavor than anything (create the ward on a grave site to prevent necromancers from animating the dead and stuff like that), but it'd give them something to help against enemy necromancers.

TheFamilarRaven
2014-02-26, 06:21 PM
New abilities I wanted to add were:


Ritual to turn Undead into Soulbound, which gives them:
* Turn resistance (equal to Gravekeeper level, maybe?)
* Count as positive energy beings, so hurt by negative energy and healed by positive energy. Possibly having an exception where the Gravekeeper who made them can still heal them with Negative energy?
* Bonus to saves against spells and abilities that specifically target undead?
* Balanced by a % chance to fail (linked to the Séance check used in the ritual?)
Something that allows the Gravekeeper to alter the way their negative energy spells and abilities work on undead. First thing that comes to mind is giving them the ability to choose whether it heals them like normal or damages them ("manipulating the negative energy to disrupt them" or something).
Buffs to Soul's Might. Either higher bonuses, more time per day that it can be used, or removing the fatigue at the end.
"Gravekeeper's Ward" - A ritual/ability they can use to effectively create a "Magic Circle against Necromancy," only the Gravekeeper's spells and effects will still work. More for flavor than anything (create the ward on a grave site to prevent necromancers from animating the dead and stuff like that), but it'd give them something to help against enemy necromancers.


The soulbound ritual is something that can be easily done, and can be spread out over multiple levels. Ex) at level X undead get 1/2 the Gravekeeper's class levels) turn resistance, at level X they get the Gravekkeper's full class levels as turn resistance and finally at level X, undead are healed by positive energy and harmed by negative energy, in addition, they get a bonus to saves that specifically target undead (such as undeath to death, equal to the Gravekeeper's CHA modifier. At least that's my 2 cents on that.

On soul might, reading it again, you might want to define what "willing" undead is, because technically, any animated, created or controlled undead are ... weell ... under your control. I assume said spirit or incorporeal undead have to be awakened? That makes the most sense. But all that does is make mindless undead ... less mindless ... not free willed. I suppose in the flavor of the class you can argue that successfully Seance'd undead ARE willing, but if you use Seance to say ... control an intelligent undead, are they technically willing?
The reason i bring this up is because it's ambiguous, also, i can really pull off some weird technicalities the way its written now. For instance, I use Seance to control a nightwalker (still an undead creature), then, through my own means or that of an ally i shift said nightwalker to the ethereal plane. Now it's technically a spirit "or other incorporeal undead". With a successful diplomacy check (DC 31, which is not bad if I have a high CHA and ranks in diplomacy) I can gain pretty damn good stats, most impressive is my 38 STR.

Not saying this is overpowered per se, God knows any other casters can do the same stuff or something similar if they get creative enough, but the fact of the matter is, "willing" undead (even awakened) is a term that contradicts itself.

May have the ability work something like this. Keep it as is, except the part about gaining the undead's stats if they're better than (your stats +2) and the ability can only target undead the gravekeeper has Animated or Created with a successful Seance, doing so forces the soul out of the targeted undead, causing it to return to a cadaver. By doing so, the gravekeeper gains +2 to all stats ... yadda yadda yadda. Alternatively, you can have the ability scores increase by an amount dependent on on the HD of the undead sacrificed, for instance, +1 to all abilty scores for every 5 HD of undead converted.

the improved version (or buff, as you call it) could simply be removing the fatigue effect, and maybe giving a base to the ability score boost (i.e, now it's 1 plus 1 per 5 HD worth of undead)

gravekeeper's ward is a nice touch, I think the easiest mechanic to make it both useful in combat, and for roleplaying purposes. have it have two functions, the first, is that as a standard action x/day, you throw down an magic circle that grants everyone inside spell resistance equal to (10 + gravekeeper levels + CHA modifier). The second is that, by meditating for an hour, all properly buried corpses (or ashes let's not discriminate) all properly tended remains within a (100ft * gravekeeper levels) radius become resistant to necromancers that would disrupt their rest. They receives permanent spell resistance equal to (10 + gravekeeper class levels + CHA modifier), against any attempt to animate their corpse (with the exception of the Seance ability)

Hope this helps

Diachronos
2014-02-28, 01:02 AM
Yeah, definitely going to have to increase the levels of the class. The levels are packed as it is, and it doesn't seem fair to stuff even more into those five levels.

For Soul's Might I may divide the effects up and spread them out. Maybe do just the attribute bonuses and immunities first, then add the AC bonus and ability to ignore armor with the improved version. The attribute bonus being based on the spirit's HD sounds good too.

Going to need to come up with a clear explanation of how the Séance-affected undead work with commands.

TheFamilarRaven
2014-02-28, 01:12 AM
Going to need to come up with a clear explanation of how the Séance-affected undead work with commands.

Just make the ability only work on undead that the Gravekeeper Animated or Created with a successful Seance check, that should automatically mean that they are willing undead ... as per the flavor of the whole ability. Exclude Controlled undead (as in, via the Control Undead spell) even is the Seance was successful because ... well, they weren't willingly undead to begin with.

EDIT: Also, you might want to increase the DC of Seance if the targeted undead have turn resistance .... I think that makes sense.

Diachronos
2014-03-04, 12:16 PM
Just make the ability only work on undead that the Gravekeeper Animated or Created with a successful Seance check, that should automatically mean that they are willing undead ... as per the flavor of the whole ability. Exclude Controlled undead (as in, via the Control Undead spell) even is the Seance was successful because ... well, they weren't willingly undead to begin with.

EDIT: Also, you might want to increase the DC of Seance if the targeted undead have turn resistance .... I think that makes sense.

Took your advice and limited Séance to only affecting Animate and Create effects. Plus gave them Rebuke Undead, since it's kinda required for necromancers (at least for flavor) and I may end up using it as fuel for another ability later.

Does a DC increase of 2x the Undead's turn resistance sound like an adequate boost?

TheFamilarRaven
2014-03-04, 07:20 PM
Does a DC increase of 2x the Undead's turn resistance sound like an adequate boost? For Seance? sounds right ... funny story ... I just re-wrote this post cause I thought you were talking about something else entirely :smalltongue:

Also, I suggest that rebuke Undead be re-worded to something like this ... "The Gravekeeper gains the ability to Rebuke Undead, as a Cleric. Use Gravekeeper levels as Cleric levels when using this ability. Gravekeeper levels stack with any other class levels that grant the ability to Rebuke Undead."

Diachronos
2014-03-05, 03:11 PM
Now for the Gravekeeper's Ward!
* Gravekeeper's Ward: The Gravekeeper may perform a ritual to create a ward protecting tended remains against necromancy. The ritual takes one hour to complete, and grants permanent spell resistance equal to (20 + Gravekeeper level + Charisma modifier) against Animate Dead spells and effects to all properly tended remains within 100ft per Gravekeeper level. The Gravekeeper may
Additionally, once per day the Gravekeeper can grant spell resistance equal to (10 + Gravekeeper level + Charisma modifier) to all allies within 50ft for 2 rounds per Gravekeeper level.

Plus another ability that a friend of mine came up with
* Dispel Undead: The Gravekeeper may use 3 rebuking attempts to destroy an undead creature with a Séance check; the DC for the check is (15 + HD of undead + turn resistance), though the Gravekeeper may expend additional turning attempts to reduce the DC by 1 per attempt used.

TheFamilarRaven
2014-03-05, 03:34 PM
Now for the Gravekeeper's Ward!
* Gravekeeper's Ward: The Gravekeeper may perform a ritual to create a ward protecting tended remains against necromancy. The ritual takes one hour to complete, and grants permanent spell resistance equal to (20 + Gravekeeper level + Charisma modifier) against Animate Dead spells and effects to all properly tended remains within 100ft per Gravekeeper level. The Gravekeeper may
all good ...


Additionally, once per day the Gravekeeper can grant spell resistance equal to (10 + Gravekeeper level + Charisma modifier) to all allies within 25ft/Gravekeeper level.

1) was it intended for this spell resistance to apply to all spells, or just necromancy? either is fine, but against necromancy fits the flavor more ... but all spells is better so i'd stick wit hthat.
2) Range shouldn't increase with Gravekeeper level, duration should. Also, there is no duration listed for the spell resistance :smalleek:



* Dispel Undead: The Gravekeeper may use 3 rebuking attempts to destroy an undead creature with a Séance check; the DC for the check is (15 + HD of undead + turn resistance), though the Gravekeeper may expend additional turning attempts to reduce the DC by 1 per attempt used.

Seems fine, that's a lot of Rebuke attempts so it should be balanced. however, consider this, a diplomacy check (especially with an optimized diplomacy) is FAR easier to make than a turn check (at least in my opinion), AND it allows success against undead that would normally be too strong for your ECL to be able to turn/rebuke. At the very least, the DC should be (15 + HD + Turn Resistance*2), since turn resistance is already times *2 when making a regular seance check. Alternatively it could work like "Gravekeeper makes a Seance check wit ha DC equal to ... yadda yadda yadda ... if successful, the target undead must make a Will (or Fort) save or be destroyed as if they were disrupted."

that's my two sense anyway ... also, you should really start labeling the abilities as SU), EX) etc ... since that's proper class format.

Diachronos
2014-03-05, 07:37 PM
1) was it intended for this spell resistance to apply to all spells, or just necromancy? either is fine, but against necromancy fits the flavor more ... but all spells is better so i'd stick wit hthat.
2) Range shouldn't increase with Gravekeeper level, duration should. Also, there is no duration listed for the spell resistance :smalleek:

It's for all spells. I changed it to just straight 50ft radius, lasting 2 rounds per Gravekeeper level (might drop it to 1/level?)



Seems fine, that's a lot of Rebuke attempts so it should be balanced. however, consider this, a diplomacy check (especially with an optimized diplomacy) is FAR easier to make than a turn check (at least in my opinion), AND it allows success against undead that would normally be too strong for your ECL to be able to turn/rebuke. At the very least, the DC should be (15 + HD + Turn Resistance*2), since turn resistance is already times *2 when making a regular seance check. Alternatively it could work like "Gravekeeper makes a Seance check wit ha DC equal to ... yadda yadda yadda ... if successful, the target undead must make a Will (or Fort) save or be destroyed as if they were disrupted."

I'm torn between doing the "Séance check to make them pass a save" or "regular turning check with a bonus on the turning damage."

TheFamilarRaven
2014-03-05, 08:34 PM
It's for all spells. I changed it to just straight 50ft radius, lasting 2 rounds per Gravekeeper level (might drop it to 1/level?)


I'm torn between doing the "Séance check to make them pass a save" or "regular turning check with a bonus on the turning damage."

1 round per level is standard, even if it's only a 5 level PrC, but you said you're going to expand it so ..... yeah.

As far as the turning thing goes ... If I recall, standard turning damage is pretty pitiful. i'm imagining an ability like this....

Put to rest SU): the Gravekeeper puts a restless soul at ease, destroying undead so that they may once again find peace. By spending X amount of rebuke attempts, the gravekeeper can target a single undead. The Undead must make a Will save with a DC equal to (10 + Gravekeeper's ranks in diplomacy + Gravekeeper class levels), or be destroyed as if they were disrupted.

Diachronos
2014-03-07, 12:03 PM
Finally got around to expanding the class. The abilities got moved around and tweaked a little, and there are a couple of new things that I tossed in to fill in the blanks.

Not sure if Transcend Mortality is too powerful as it is right now, might need to make a few changes to it.

TheFamilarRaven
2014-03-10, 02:01 PM
everything looks good!

Few things though.

-Soul's Might, not sure if you want to make a limit for the fatigue effect. As it is now, after Soul's Might, the Gravekeeper will be fatigued until they get 8 hours rest. Compared to other abilities that cause fatigued (touch of Fatigue, Barbarian's Rage), which have durations on their fatigues, Soul's Might doesn't. On the other hand, this class feature is potentially way better than Rage it terms of stat boosting, so 8 hours (or until next use) may be appropriate. I don't know what the right answer is, but it's something to think about.

-Gravestep is cool, I'd leave out the comment about it being fairly useless in the campaign you're in :smalltongue:, because not everyone is playing a game where there is a graveyard demi-plane or what have you.

-Put to rest, I believe that undead that have turn resistance should get a bonus to their Will save, no?

-Transcend Mortality, is a nice capstone, but i feel like it lacks flavor to justify the gravekeeper becoming undead(ish). How about this?

Eternal Keeper SU): By 10th level, the Gravekeeper transcends mortality, so that he may watch over the dead for eternity. They no longer need to sleep or eat (although the gravekeeper must still rest in order to prepare/recharge spells), and no longer ages. Nor can the Gravekeeper die of old age. Finally, the Gravekeeper becomes immune to Critical hits, as well as death effects and negative energy, (with the exception of the Gravekeeper's own spells and abilities).

I added the fluff part at the beginning to justify them being immortal, and included the part about not needing to eat or sleep, because that felt appropriate

Overall, i like the changes. (Oh, and BTW, with the exception of Seance and Improved Seance, all abilities should be SU, not EX. Except Speak with Dead, which you have labeled as SP, that's fine)

Diachronos
2014-03-17, 11:12 AM
-Gravestep is cool, I'd leave out the comment about it being fairly useless in the campaign you're in :smalltongue:, because not everyone is playing a game where there is a graveyard demi-plane or what have you.

It's actually not as useless as I implied. For one, you can't even get into the place except through certain tombs or by going into a graveyard and using a magical ivory pumpkin with a jack-o-lantern's face carved into it. After that, you need some sort of "guide" (for my character, it's her zombie snake familiar) to get through the place safely.

Gravestep would give me and the rest of the party a way to get around without having to enter the Graveyard every time, which will be a big help if I ever lose the familiar or the pumpkin. Plus, since the Graveyard can't be accessed from a mausoleum or tomb that isn't specifically built for that purpose, I can ward the place and use it as a fast-travel spot.

On the other hand, it would mean that I don't get to run into the Gravekeeper who rules the Graveyard...

Diachronos
2014-04-17, 10:20 AM
The Life for Unlife ability has officially been replaced by getting Dread Undeath as a bonus feat. It pains me to do this since it fit the flavor of the class so well, but it was a choice between flavor and practicality, and practicality won out.

The whole problem is that most characters who prestige into the class just aren't going to have enough HP to make the ability worth using, since Wizards and Sorcerers only get a d4 HD and the Dread Necromancer's d6 isn't much better. Unless you're a cleric or someone who prioritizes Constitution (or just really lucky with your HD rolls each level), animating or creating even one moderately powerful Undead is going to take a hefty chunk of your HP, and you're not going to get it back until the thing dies.
I can't just drop the whole "sacrificed HP can't be healed" thing either, because that makes the ability WAY too powerful; it goes from being "I sacrifice a portion of my own life to create this undead creature" to "I spend 30HP to make a 12-headed Hydra Skeleton, then use my Wand of Cure Critical Wounds to get most/all of it back."

Doxkid
2014-04-24, 09:15 AM
I like this homebrew. Excellent work.

Diachronos
2014-05-02, 10:56 AM
I like this homebrew. Excellent work.

Thanks, but I can't really take credit for much on it aside from the basic concepts. A lot of the fine-tuning came from other people.